Any experience with large units of crisis suits?

A review of past Tactics by commanders during the First, Second, Third & Fourth Phase Expansion.
Moffmaster
Shas'Saal
Posts: 4

Any experience with large units of crisis suits?

Post#1 » Mar 22 2017 07:56

In previous editions, the number of suits we could field was rather limited. But now, it is possible to field large units of crisis suits.

I could see a large group of cheap, flamer-toting crisis suits as useful.

And every Tau can now make the kind of super-expensive, super shooty unit previously only possible for Farsight armies.

The question is: is it worth it? They are okayish in close combat, but still quite vulnerable, especially if you do a more expensive loadout. And the bigger the units are, the harder it is to keep them in cover, and not exposed to blast templates.

Has anyone some field experience with big units?

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3101

Re: Any experience with large units of crisis suits?

Post#2 » Mar 22 2017 08:07

There is only one way how large units of anything are good in 7e 40k and that's when you can make them super durable and nasty by adding characters and stuff. Aka a deathstar.
Crisis units have really good damage output and can be somewhat tanky with a Tank'O in front of them but they are still only models with T4 and a 3+ armor....that's everything but not durable these days. So if the enemy sees a huge Crisis blob worth a ton of points with all your characters attached he sure as hell will dedicate most of his firepower to that unit and will wipe them in 1-2 turns most likely.
Also note that you could only shoot at one target unless you give all of them Target Lock which would make that unit even more expensive and they could still only hold one objective at a time.

On the other side splitting such a huge Crisis unit into ~3 units would force the enemy to split fire, let you threaten multiple targets and enable you to hold more than one objective....for practically no downside.

MSU is the name, 40k the game.

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JubJub
Shas
Posts: 8

Re: Any experience with large units of crisis suits?

Post#3 » Mar 22 2017 11:11

I would have to agreed with Panzer in this respect. In my experience, I have used these large groups before against an Imperial Guard tank line. I had Farsight with a squad of five Crisis suits, each one with fusion blasters. My plan was to use Farsight's no scatter deep strike to appear in the middle of the tank line turn two and single-handedly blow it to pieces. Needless to say, they failed spectacularly. My bad luck with dice isn't the cause of my aversion to this strategy, however. It was the fact that my tank-killing baddies were all killed in one shot by a Strength 9 AP 2 pie plate from another tank. Panzer is right in the fact that Crisis Suits clumped up in squads are priority target for anyone who has played against Tau before. My advice: keep your squads small to prevent devastating losses all at once. Hope this helps!
"Gun Drone, get down!"
-Space Marine

Moffmaster
Shas'Saal
Posts: 4

Re: Any experience with large units of crisis suits?

Post#4 » Mar 22 2017 11:23

You should be able to scatter your troops in the assault phase enough not to be caught in a single large blast.

But I agree that it is pretty vulnerable. A few decently strong blast weapon, or a strong close combat unit and you are toast and all those points are lost. That's why I'm asking if anyone has found sucess with that kind of unit.

I imagine that a big squad with all the boosts: reroll misses, ignore cover and tank/monster hunter is murderous in the shooting phase. But they allso come in at a price that might be too steep for their survivability. But they are still ten points cheaper per piece than the Commander Farsight deathstar. Though at around 55-65pts per model, it's not that big a change percentage-wise.

What about the low end of the spectrum? At 32 points for a crisis suit with two flamers, you could have a nasty unit for horde control whose points-to-wounds relation is not too shabby. With ambushes and feints, they can move quite the distance, flame, and then jump back or charge. And they are pretty resistant against counter charge, too, with all those flamers on overwatch.

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Mirth
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 83

Re: Any experience with large units of crisis suits?

Post#5 » Mar 22 2017 12:44

I have found some success with the Crisis deathstar, but it is pretty situational and I don't run it consistently. When I do, I always take Farsight as my warlord, because if you can't put that giant blob exactly where they need to be for their weapons, then it is essentially useless.

They work as an effective beta-strike unit that can put out a lot of hurt, but as your biggest unit you really have to plan for them getting blown away or charged very early in the game. A big squad with a buff commander is very devastating, but the odds of it winning the game for you are not super high- the rest of your army has to be able to carry through after the Crisis unit has gone in and blown something (or sometimes multiple somethings) up.

If you are going to run it, definitely pick the purpose you want it to fill and spare no expense in kitting it out for that purpose, so that it does what it is meant to do, and does it well. The results from that many points being spent in one place have to be there asap, otherwise there is no reason to bring a large unit.

Just my thoughts, hope it helps! :)
When we forget we are soldiers, we stop fighting.

Bolter&Rail
Shas'Saal
Posts: 68

Re: Any experience with large units of crisis suits?

Post#6 » Mar 22 2017 06:11

I find success with a crisis-star I run:
-Shadowsun
-Commander with iridium, C&C, MSS, PEN, Stim, Vectored retro thrusters, Neuro web jammer
-4 crisis with dual missile pods, 2/ target lock
-2 gun drones

Put them in ruins cover and thats 17 wounds with 2+ cover saves and a commander hopefully tanking the wounds with a 5+ FnP. Its a hefty price tag at 563pts but many armies won't have the tools to kill it. You can often keep it away from assault armies until turn 3/4 and few armies can get around the saves and will fire at it once and realize how hard it is to kill. I run that unit because it pulls multiple razorbacks a turn if facing gladius, will put a couple HP on a knight or GMC, and has range to survive for most the game. It also is a decently effective anti-air if you need it with str7 re-rolls.

That said I have to agree MSU is often much more effective and if an army does have the right tools they might pull that 563pt unit with 1 shot (think str10 pie plate ignore cover...stormsurge).

I think a crisis star is competitive though if played conservatively. In my mind the equivalent points is 10 solo crisis which I think is much easier for many armies to pull in a quicker amount of time... and honestly not significantly better damage output depending on whats your shooting. Tau is mean to be synergized and we have the tools for it. Both strategies work in my book though and are largely dependent on opponent/mission.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3101

Re: Any experience with large units of crisis suits?

Post#7 » Mar 23 2017 01:44

Bolter&Rail wrote:I find success with a crisis-star I run:
-Shadowsun
-Commander with iridium, C&C, MSS, PEN, Stim, Vectored retro thrusters, Neuro web jammer
-4 crisis with dual missile pods, 2/ target lock
-2 gun drones

Put them in ruins cover and thats 17 wounds with 2+ cover saves and a commander hopefully tanking the wounds with a 5+ FnP. Its a hefty price tag at 563pts but many armies won't have the tools to kill it. You can often keep it away from assault armies until turn 3/4 and few armies can get around the saves and will fire at it once and realize how hard it is to kill. I run that unit because it pulls multiple razorbacks a turn if facing gladius, will put a couple HP on a knight or GMC, and has range to survive for most the game. It also is a decently effective anti-air if you need it with str7 re-rolls.

That said I have to agree MSU is often much more effective and if an army does have the right tools they might pull that 563pt unit with 1 shot (think str10 pie plate ignore cover...stormsurge).

I think a crisis star is competitive though if played conservatively. In my mind the equivalent points is 10 solo crisis which I think is much easier for many armies to pull in a quicker amount of time... and honestly not significantly better damage output depending on whats your shooting. Tau is mean to be synergized and we have the tools for it. Both strategies work in my book though and are largely dependent on opponent/mission.


Just keep in mind that they have to deploy without Shadowsun. She can join them in your first turn but since she has Infiltrate she can't get deployed together with them.
Also Wyvern would still ruin that units day being a barrage weapon with ignore cover etc. ;)

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 380

Re: Any experience with large units of crisis suits?

Post#8 » Mar 23 2017 02:25

Panzer wrote:Just keep in mind that they have to deploy without Shadowsun. She can join them in your first turn but since she has Infiltrate she can't get deployed together with them.


I belive that was changed in recent errata:
Page 167 – Infiltrate
Replace the first paragraph of rules text with
the following:
You may choose to deploy units that contain at least
one model with this special rule last, after all other units
(friend and foe) have been deployed. If both players
have such units and choose to do so, the players roll-off
and the winner decides who goes first, then alternate
deploying these units.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3101

Re: Any experience with large units of crisis suits?

Post#9 » Mar 23 2017 02:45

That's not the right quote though. ;)

Image

It's even right above the one you quoted. :D

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 380

Re: Any experience with large units of crisis suits?

Post#10 » Mar 23 2017 03:14

But that only applies if you're deploying one unit normally and the other unit using infiltrate. If you deploy a unit with infiltrate rule normally, they're not infiltrators. It even has a different wording in the same sentence.

EDIT: Aye, you're right, looking at rulebook, they're using "infiltrators" as stand for "units with infiltrate rule".
Last edited by Gragagrogog on Mar 23 2017 03:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3101

Re: Any experience with large units of crisis suits?

Post#11 » Mar 23 2017 03:24

Gragagrogog wrote:But that only applies if you're deploying one unit normally and the other unit using infiltrate. If you deploy a unit with infiltrate rule normally, they're not infiltrators. It even has a different wording in the same sentence.

EDIT: Aye, you're right, looking at rulebook, they're using "infiltrators" as stand for "units with infiltrate rule" in rulebook.



No it does not. It doesn't talk about using the infiltrator special rule. It talks about Infiltrator which is every unit with the Infiltrator special rule.
That topic already got discussed to death with what I wrote above as consensus. Please don't make us start from scratch again about something almost everyone agrees on. :D


EDIT: dat ninja edit just when I wrote my response. ^^

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