Best way to play this 500pt list

A review of past Tactics by commanders during the First, Second, Third & Fourth Phase Expansion.
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Weckatron
Shas
Posts: 5

Best way to play this 500pt list

Post#1 » Mar 29 2017 07:25

So after finishing some recent painting projects, it just so happens the list very coincidentally reached 500 points! (Well, 502, but oh well)

Because I've been trying to get a lot of my friends and family into the wonderful game of 40k, I thought it could be very useful for them to play their earlier games against an army that isn't just grey... However, my list isn't amazing or what I'm used to. Now I'm not looking for tips on the list itself, but if anyone has suggestions on the best way to command it I would love to here them.

    HQ:
    Ethereal w/ hover drone and recon armor

    Elites:
    2x Stealth Suits with' Vre upgraded with the FB
    2x Stealth Suits with 'Vre upgraded with the FB

    Troops:
    6x FW w/ Pulse Rifles
    6x FW w/ Pulse Rifles and DF

    Fast Attack:
    4x PF w/ PC & ML

Obviously I don't want them to be crushed by my army, and I don't think that'll be an issue (Stealth Suits, and Devilfish in a 500 pt list isn't usually what I see people playing), but hopefully it'll have enough fun things for them to play against. E.G. a vehicle, some infiltrators...

Currently I think the plan will be to have the DF not transport anyone but instead just run around with objective secured, and the have the 12 FWs just chill with my ethereal. The suits I want to infiltrate with, but I don't have much experience with that. Anyway tips? I'll probably play against SM and 'Nids the most.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Best way to play this 500pt list

Post#2 » Mar 29 2017 08:14

The Devilfish might be a bit frustrating for completely new people if they didn't think about some high strength weapons tbh.

Stealth Suits aren't strong, I agree, however for new people who don't have enough experience to compare them with other units they might seem strong with their 2+ cover save in terrain so they might need a little hint to drown them in small arms fire since they are still only T3 with one wound. ;)

About how to play the list...well you don't have options to be honest. Ethereal in Pathfinder would be stupid since it would combine two juicy targets into one and he can't join Stealth Suits (during deployment). Inside a Devilfish he is useless and he usually doesn't want to be close to the enemy so he'll probably stick with the Firewarrior who aren't cruising around.

The only 'tactical' thing that comes to my mind is to put the Ethereal inside of the Devilfish during deployment if you don't start first to protect him against an alpha strike and disembark him in your first turn to buff your Firewarrior.

For demo games maybe don't do everything possible with your units. Like Stealth Suits are probably durable enough if the enemy always only shoots with 5 Bolter at them. Once they start to dedicate more dakka to them or cover ignoring stuff etc. you can start using their Jetpack Thrustmoves to jump behind Line of Sight blocking terrain to make it a bit harder for them again.

Also maybe don't try to take an enemy unit out with your whole firepower in demo games. Nothing is more frustrating than having to take your unit from the table without them having been able to do something. So against new people it might be more fun to them if you split your fire and only cripple their units instead.

If they really have trouble against you give them hints. Like the above mentioned thing against Stealth Suits (they really aren't that durable despite their 2+ save) and the (for us) obvious thing to take out Pathfinder asap so we can't buff our shooting.

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Weckatron
Shas
Posts: 5

Re: Best way to play this 500pt list

Post#3 » Mar 30 2017 01:23

Panzer wrote:The Devilfish might be a bit frustrating for completely new people if they didn't think about some high strength weapons tbh.


Do you think I should just warn them to try and bring some stronger weapons?

Panzer wrote:About how to play the list...well you don't have options to be honest. Ethereal in Pathfinder would be stupid since it would combine two juicy targets into one and he can't join Stealth Suits (during deployment). Inside a Devilfish he is useless and he usually doesn't want to be close to the enemy so he'll probably stick with the Firewarrior who aren't cruising around.

The only 'tactical' thing that comes to my mind is to put the Ethereal inside of the Devilfish during deployment if you don't start first to protect him against an alpha strike and disembark him in your first turn to buff your Firewarrior.


I've never really considered keeping the ethereal bottled up, that actually seems just like a good tip in general.


Panzer wrote:For demo games maybe don't do everything possible with your units. Like Stealth Suits are probably durable enough if the enemy always only shoots with 5 Bolter at them. Once they start to dedicate more dakka to them or cover ignoring stuff etc. you can start using their Jetpack Thrustmoves to jump behind Line of Sight blocking terrain to make it a bit harder for them again.


So basically match their skill level as the game develops.

Panzer wrote:Also maybe don't try to take an enemy unit out with your whole firepower in demo games. Nothing is more frustrating than having to take your unit from the table without them having been able to do something. So against new people it might be more fun to them if you split your fire and only cripple their units instead.


I have made this mistake before. I took a team of Crisis Suits w/ BCs and accidentally demolished a fourth of my enemies army in one turn... Definitely something to keep in mind.


Panzer wrote:If they really have trouble against you give them hints. Like the above mentioned thing against Stealth Suits (they really aren't that durable despite their 2+ save) and the (for us) obvious thing to take out Pathfinder asap so we can't buff our shooting.


I'm afraid that may come of as condescending. Or like hand holding, any way to not sound like I'm insulting the other person? Is their an etiquette guide on that?

Thanks for all the help, I'll keep all this stuff in mind!

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Best way to play this 500pt list

Post#4 » Mar 30 2017 01:50

Weckatron wrote:
Panzer wrote:If they really have trouble against you give them hints. Like the above mentioned thing against Stealth Suits (they really aren't that durable despite their 2+ save) and the (for us) obvious thing to take out Pathfinder asap so we can't buff our shooting.


I'm afraid that may come of as condescending. Or like hand holding, any way to not sound like I'm insulting the other person? Is their an etiquette guide on that?

No real etiquette, no. It's all about the wording and the right time to talk about it.
It's more meant to nudge them into a general direction of thinking.
New people rarely think games through or reflect on how they could have done things better/what makes the enemy strong etc.
Partially because all the names and numbers are a bit much to remember at first. It helps to present your guys in more simple terms. Like pointing on your Pathfinder and say "those guys make my other guys really good at shooting when they hit with their shooting first" and then pointing on your Stealth Suits and say "those guys don't shoot that well against heavier armored guys on their own but they can shrug off some strong shooting when in terrain if it's only a few shots every time" etc.

Talk about it when your opponent is really not seeing it and repeats those mistakes several games in a row. Basically before he gets too frustrated but not when he is still trying to figure out how to win on his own.

It's like with the Space Wolve player in my group. He kept complaining that we always shoot his Thunderwolve Cavalry off the table before they can get anywhere (or only really badly crippled). Well d'uh that's our only chance how to deal with them but of course telling him that won't help him at all.
Instead we told him what he generally does wrong. In this specific case that he keeps sending his TWC in our direction while the rest of his army is either in reserve (worst case was Wulfen in a Stormwolve that arrived turn 4 lol) or simply not being able to keep up with them without being a real threat either.
By now he learned to harass us with Drop Pods, Long Fangs (SW Devastators) and Jump/Bike units as well while he still has his TWC as well. Or he allies them in with his tank heavy Astra Militarum so we have to deal with those asap as well.
In fact since he at first only tried to bring stronger and stroner units without using his army right we now have the problem that after teaching him how to play his army right he has no feel for how strong his units actually are when played properly which raised the powerlevel in our group a good bit. :D

User avatar
AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 864

Re: Best way to play this 500pt list

Post#5 » Mar 31 2017 06:28

Weckatron wrote:So after finishing some recent painting projects, it just so happens the list very coincidentally reached 500 points! (Well, 502, but oh well)

Because I've been trying to get a lot of my friends and family into the wonderful game of 40k, I thought it could be very useful for them to play their earlier games against an army that isn't just grey... However, my list isn't amazing or what I'm used to. Now I'm not looking for tips on the list itself, but if anyone has suggestions on the best way to command it I would love to here them.

    HQ:
    Ethereal w/ hover drone and recon armor

    Elites:
    2x Stealth Suits with' Vre upgraded with the FB
    2x Stealth Suits with 'Vre upgraded with the FB

    Troops:
    6x FW w/ Pulse Rifles
    6x FW w/ Pulse Rifles and DF

    Fast Attack:
    4x PF w/ PC & ML

Obviously I don't want them to be crushed by my army, and I don't think that'll be an issue (Stealth Suits, and Devilfish in a 500 pt list isn't usually what I see people playing), but hopefully it'll have enough fun things for them to play against. E.G. a vehicle, some infiltrators...

Currently I think the plan will be to have the DF not transport anyone but instead just run around with objective secured, and the have the 12 FWs just chill with my ethereal. The suits I want to infiltrate with, but I don't have much experience with that. Anyway tips? I'll probably play against SM and 'Nids the most.


I would suggest going with super basic units that do one specific thing that do not have any weird or complicated rules. You might also want to pick units that are good at specific things. So a unit that is good at shooting and a unit that is good in assault. Maybe toss in a vehicle or two for fun. This makes it easier to understand, yea? "This guy is good at shooting, I should keep him away from assault guys. This guy is good at assault, I should bring him toward the shooty guys."

Put it on a playing field that is small, so maybe a 4x4 grid or something like that. This way you only have to explain the basic concepts of the game while also giving them the ability to have that feeling of "tactically" positioning and using "Shooty" and "Assault" units, if you follow me. You'll also make the game faster since it is on a smaller battlefield.

Make sure they understand that this is a for fun match to see the basics as the power levels may not be equal.
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