Tau Blitzkrieg... Is it now viable?

A review of past Tactics by commanders during the First, Second, Third & Fourth Phase Expansion.
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kai'lore
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Post#11 » Mar 08 2006 01:20

nicely spotted Mugulord, I am so used to skimming over everyone's standard set up Rail Heads that I didn't even notice they weren't railheads!

I would take at least 2 railheads, just becasue I am a fan and like to blow many things up. You know, like pretty much all the Fire Warriors on this site! :evil: :D

kai

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The Professor
Shas
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Post#12 » Mar 08 2006 01:28

However, with 3 ionheads and the sheer amounts of shots availible to this list, phase-out could be a very viable option -- more so than the standard Tau list (with railheads).

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shasolenzabi
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shasolenzabi's Blitzing list

Post#13 » Mar 08 2006 01:36

[[[ I like this discussion, and you guys have a good idea, here is how I apply it!
HQ: Shas'O with HWMT/SG/PR/MP
Shas'El same kit as above.

ELITES: 3xCrisis Teams of 2, Fireknife configuration(PR/MP/MT)

TROOPS: 3xFW teams of 12 in Devilfish with MT/DL/DP/TL/SMS for the new style.

HEAVY SUPPORT: 2xRailheads with SMS/RG/MT/TL/DP/DL
1xIonhead with SMS/RG/MT/TL/DP/DL

Of course some kitting can be changed depending on the points and such, but after deployment, If I get either first or second movement, I flow in a melting flank and deliver a Hammerblow to one-to-two enemy units a turn, utterly obliteraing them! :evil: Now some may say i am merciless, I have had to be to deal with the kind of opponents in my area, they show no mercy! :-( .

So, using trees to hide behind, I can attack with all those SMS attacks and pop-out when ready to lob all of that at my opponent's units, the most killed on one turn is 3.5units, the effort, moving multiple units, and fire rolls of incredible 4+ness,,,Look on oponent's face? Priceless! :D

Basically, Each fish is teamed with a crisis team and Hammerhead, commanders hop where needed, and attacks can be devastating! If I lose a crisis team, i have 2 more teams to cover! same with Hammerheads, same with the fish. :biggrin:

Tallen
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Post#14 » Mar 08 2006 01:47

Adding railguns instead of Ion will run the list up to ~1750... not enough left over for another full slot really. I picked Ion for the cheapness and sheer number of shots - they're supposed to wipe MEQ or worse infantry out. The fusion guys' sole purpose is to hit AV14 targets (there usually aren't more than 1-2 anyways and the rest of the army should ignore those targets completely). Ion can take care of the rest and at better than 1/3 the cost of a Railgun to boot.

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kai'lore
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Post#15 » Mar 08 2006 02:46

it's an itneresting way to do it, a Meq army with no more Meqs is well...

kai

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shasolenzabi
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Post#16 » Mar 08 2006 04:14

[[[ The other day I got to do some showing off at 2k! I changed a RG for a IC, and dropped the Shas'El so I could add a full 4th fish to the army! Lucky lil' bugger rolled so well, we had a draw! 86pts my favor, but still a draw! It was nice! 7vehicles and 7suits in one list!

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Orange-Bell
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Post#17 » Mar 08 2006 09:49

Just to clear up a couple of things:

I mean, the positional relay can be bought for regular FCW Devilfish, right? It just comes free on the Pathfinder fish, is how I understand it.


The positional relay is special issue, so you can only have one, and you can only put it on a El, O or Crisis (bodyguard or squad leader) Vre.

Problem with this thing is that you get one thing to deepstrike on a 2+, but you can't deepstrike anything else in that turn. So you better not roll a 1... :-?

The pathfinder devilfish thing is different (called a marker beacon), and it comes as standard at no extra cost. So the only way to get more of them is to get more pathfinders.

does Farsight still have the 1 PF limitation?


Yep, and 0-1 pirahnas and skyrays too.

But moving on...

This stuff sounds very similar to T0nka's guide to killing necrons--his idea being to wipe one unit out at a time, and very quickly, to negate WBB. It does work very well against Necrons, so it should work quite well against other Meqs because you don't have to worry about WBB.

And just an inside hint... ;)
Necron players with monoliths are very scared of just one railgun, and will go to great lengths to avoid it or destroy it. It is the best one-shot monolith killer in the game--hit on 3+, pen on 4+, kaboom on 4+. So it really is worth just having at least one that won't be too easy to knock down if you're playing against Necrons.

O-B
O-B

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Mephet'ran
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Post#18 » Mar 08 2006 09:57

Personally I think the Blitzkrieg tactic is do able, just very hard to work. Mainly because if you get unlucky and don't manage to flatten a flank by the second turn you have a problem, especially if you didn't get the first turn.
Because by then your opponent will have realised what you're trying to do and will bring more of his army over to counter you, and that's the end of that.

As was said, Deep-Striking crisis, and masses of long-range firepower is what one needs in order to quickly overwhelm a flank. Here the Hidden Spider attack will be extremely important because you're going to need every shot you can get while your MechFWs are racing up the flank.
I also suggest the Skyray (never thought I'd say that) simply for its ability to (with help) launch a lot of firepower in one or two turns. An Ionhead is also very useful to deal with units beyond the Skyray's (or the PF's) reach. For the last slot I'd take a Railhead, not for the S10, but for the template. If you're not playing against Meq, but against something weaker that template is murder. If you are playing against Meq, then another Ionhead wouldn't be a bad idea. Two Ionheads backed up by PFs can almost alone take out an entire Meq unit.
And then Deep Striking Crisis with medium-short range hard hitting weapons (AFB, CIB, plasma, fusion) can mop up the rest on turn two.
Once you've managed that you're more or less over the hill. Bring in Firewarriors to consolidate your position and then roll up from the side.

The problem with making an army list for such a tactic is you also need to allow for the possibility that you can't use the Blitzkrieg (because your opponent has castled, or is a drop pod army or another similar reason). You need to be able to fight a "conventional" battle with good chances of winning. This makes the list design a very personal affair, as each person will have a different idea of how he wants to implement both his Blitz attack and his secondary tactic.

Hmm, that all I can think of at the moment, if anything else occurs to me I'll post it.
Mephet'ran
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Ezzeran
Shas
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Post#19 » Mar 08 2006 11:23

The pathfinder devilfish thing is different (called a marker beacon), and it comes as standard at no extra cost. So the only way to get more of them is to get more pathfinders.


Well it sounds like this is what we're interested in anyways, if we're talking deep strike. The positional relay is too "slow" for a mass deep striking list.

And the way you make it sound is that this is not an option for regular 'fish, only pathfinder fish. Pity.

It doesn't have a range though, right? All you have to do is draw line of sight to the fish and they come in on target?
Ezz

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Post#20 » Mar 08 2006 03:58

Ezzeran wrote:The positional relay is too "slow" for a mass deep striking list.


Unless of course, you want to be slow. Against another DS army list or against drop pods, you could use this to bring in some cheap unit and make sure you don't get your other reserves, hopefully until after the drop pods arrive.

Ezzeran wrote:And the way you make it sound is that this is not an option for regular 'fish, only pathfinder fish. Pity.


No it's not an option for regular DF. But it is free on the PF DF.

Ezzeran wrote:It doesn't have a range though, right? All you have to do is draw line of sight to the fish and they come in on target?


Almost correct. You are right there is no range, the only exception being the normal night fight rules apply in determining LoS. If you have LoS you don't automatically land on target, but can choose to re-roll the scatter die.

FE

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kai'lore
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Post#21 » Mar 08 2006 08:24

Unless of course, you want to be slow. Against another DS army list or against drop pods, you could use this to bring in some cheap unit and make sure you don't get your other reserves, hopefully until after the drop pods arrive.


Exactly what I was thinking as I was reading OB's post FE.

The Positional Relay piece of wargear sounds like a good piece of wargear in that you have really good odds of bringing one unit in when you want it and delaying your other units to help the come in together.

I'd been thinking of this last night or so. We could use the Positional Relay to drop in some Gundrones, or a Sun Forge Monat etc., perhaps even with Marker Beacon LOS to pinpoint it. Is the Marker Beacon "move and shoot"? Can the PF DF zip 12 and still use it? Sorry, new codex free zone here... :::(

Next turn, your DS units are all 4+ right?

Infliltrators- Pillboxes not needed is a good point and we'd probably be better of with mobile, harder hitting infiltrators like Stealth Suits to block the enemy's infiltrators.

kai

Ezzeran
Shas
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Post#22 » Mar 08 2006 09:19

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the positional relay doesn't have a place in the force. There are certainly times when you'd want to delay your arrival, but those would likely be the exception rather than the rule. Of course, I could see how you could get creative with it, sure.

I'm guessing the model with the positional relay has to start on the table?
Ezz

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Orange-Bell
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Post#23 » Mar 09 2006 12:13

To answer some questions...

The Marker beacon is not effected by the movement of the pathfinder DF.

The PF DF has to be on the table at the start of the turn if you want it to assist deepstriking.

And if you don't use it, normal deepstrike rules are in place, so it goes 4+, 3+, 2+ from turn 2 onward. So unless you want to use it to delay, it's only useful in turns 2 and 3.

O-B
O-B

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shasolenzabi
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Post#24 » Mar 09 2006 01:08

[[[ I have thought about the Drop pod attacks, Hmm, take the HH's and fish and make patterns with them where the backs of the vehicles face towards each other in a Y or + pattern, Then, he basically faces frontal armor! suits can crawl into terrain on the move phase and hide there. Then, since I have SMS on ALL of them, the position allows me to fire anywhere, and the HH's have 360 degrees to fire with RG's/IC's add the crisis suit attacks, and they lose DP units!

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Mephet'ran
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Post#25 » Mar 09 2006 01:14

You'd have to land the Skimmers, otherwise they don't block LOS, so he can just target the skimmer on the otherside, and so rear armour.
Mephet'ran

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Zustiur
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Post#26 » Mar 09 2006 04:53

It sounds like some people are getting various items mixed up here. So to clarify:

The positional relay (special issue) allows 1 unit to come in on a 2+, but prevents other reserves

The Marker Beacon (PF Devilfish) allows the rerolling of scatter for deep strikers.

These are completely separate items.

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midnight
Shas
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Gimp the drop pods!

Post#27 » Mar 09 2006 11:29

So, you WANT positional relay in a tournament environment!

Drop pod armies suddenly get very mad at you if you go second in Omega.

His turn 2: about half their units show.
Turn 2. "I'll make this Shas'el come in on a 2+" Nothing else shows up.
You then Fly that guy into a spot where drop pods are going to not want to risk showing up, or that will give you wide open shots.

His turn 3: most of the rest show (they probably has 1-2 at most left)
If they are in a good position for you to cut off a group and completely destroy...
Your turn 3: "I'll roll normally for everybody."
If they are bunched up...
Your turn 3: "Positional relay to get these stealth suits" Drop them away from the enemy army but close to where you can reach them with your reserves.

His turn 4: they drop the rest. They go after stealths and rest of army twiddles thumbs.
Your turn 4: "In comes my army."
Overload that area, kill all thier units there and watch them be unable to get to your force.

Turn 5-6 :they either scramble to get out of LOS or runs after you.
You pound them with railguns, Ion, JSJ plasma and stealths, finish it with a FoF to end a unit.

In everything but recon this could be a huge advantage. In recon you would have to hope you could get to thier D-zone while killing tons of their stuff and conserving the non-sacrificial units. (those stealths that may survive, an 'el, and kroot)

It only really works in Omega, but it is the first tactic I have thought had a real chance against them. It's useful against any other army when you have 1-2 deep strikers anyway. ( I use a shas'o helios bomb, I'd like him to show up since no one else deep strikes unless it is omega)

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Mephet'ran
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Post#28 » Mar 09 2006 12:42

Hehe, nice. Can you use the positional relay twice like that ?
Mephet'ran

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