Tau Blitzkrieg... Is it now viable?

A review of past Tactics by commanders during the First, Second, Third & Fourth Phase Expansion.
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Mephet'ran
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Post#31 » Mar 09 2006 02:16

And I also think the positional relay is an experimental issue item... so only available on hardpoints on Shas'vre or higher... so noone onboard at the start can have one


Well that sucks. I really want that damn codex, I'll probably be getting it tomorrow, so I'll see.
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P'Shar's Rifles
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but a broadside

Post#32 » Mar 09 2006 02:43

But you could use a broadside as your "anchor" for the relay. Expensive trick, though...

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Mephet'ran
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Post#33 » Mar 09 2006 03:10

Better would be a small 3 man Stealth team, but thats just a massive waste of an Elite slot.
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Ezzeran
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Post#34 » Mar 09 2006 03:38

Better would be a small 3 man Stealth team, but thats just a massive waste of an Elite slot.


Not if you upgunned the stealth team with some gun drones. I understand that the stealth team has to have same hardpoint loadouts, but is the team leader exempt from that rule? Can he use a special issue wargear while the rest mount drone controllers?
Ezz

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Calvin
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Post#35 » Mar 09 2006 05:03

As far as I see it, perhaps the question should be, why not take a positional relay?
After all, if you know your unit is very likely to come in first time, deeepstriking a single unit becomes a much more realiable tactic that opens up opporunities you might not have risked before.

Similarly, if you have it in your army but decide you want to deepstrike everything presumably you don't have to use the positional relay?

Whilst thirdly, if you find yourself playing a drop pod army, that positional relay is golden because you can delay your army coming in as has been pointed out.

In a tournament list, it seems like something that will very often be not so bad, very rarely will it be completely useless (even if you don't eventually use it, having the option might be worth the points) whilst in some games like drop pods it could be worth many times its points value.

So, unless it's rediculously expensive (I have to admit, I don't know how much we're talking here points wise) it seems to be something worth having just as a card up your sleeve.

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kai'lore
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Post#36 » Mar 09 2006 08:16

excellent, I like where this is going. I think we may have fleshed out an otherwise not yet talked about piece of wargear and found a good use for it.

Just another idea on our old thinking vs new, Elite Slots. Yep, I remember when we had to squeeze them for all they were worth.

Now FA's been really improved so... I just don't think we are as Elite Dependent as before. Especially with ML support.

Vespids take some pressure of having Plasma Rifles.

Piranha can be used for Mass Pulse Shots.

I know I'm a big fan of the Tau elite, but perhaps we can afford to play around with less than maximum numbers with them?

Except Fireknives... I'm thinking that 3 with Shield Drones and a Pathfinder unit are going to be one of the best combinations in the Tau army.

kai

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Senexis
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Post#37 » Mar 09 2006 08:32

Ezzeran wrote:...I understand that the stealth team has to have same hardpoint loadouts...


Not so. If one has a loadout, all must, but they can be different loadouts. P35

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The Professor
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Post#38 » Mar 09 2006 08:45

kai'lore wrote:
Except Fireknives... I'm thinking that 3 with Shield Drones and a Pathfinder unit are going to be one of the best combinations in the Tau army.


So true, I am almost drooling in anticipation.

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Post#39 » Mar 09 2006 10:26

That pathfinder team is going to be a MAJOR target you know... especially since it only has 36" range and needs to maintain LoS to its target, unlike the Crisis team. I dunno about this scheme...
Eat Wake.

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kai'lore
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Post#40 » Mar 09 2006 11:15

true enough Tallen.

There are both Active and Passive ways to field something like this.

It gives us an option not unlike a Vidicator (in terms of usage, not the weaponary).

It can be used to both rush up and attack, for a fire-magnet and also, more subtly, for Area Denial.

The Pathfinder Team could be set up so that it's LOS denies a vital approach, diagonally and from behind/inside cover. Does that make sense?

Combine this with the Crisis Team covering the approch from another diagonal and you have a very effective kill team.

kai

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midnight
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Post#41 » Mar 10 2006 12:33

so a positional relay is close to worthless in an escalation/mech force.
Figures.

Leave it to the jerks to keep us from having a counter to the drop pod cheesiness.

Personally I'm all about telling drop pod armies that I want to see the models be actual models and not paper cut outs. Maybe if they had to pay an extra $200 for 5 units to drop they'd make a decent list.

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shasolenzabi
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Post#42 » Mar 10 2006 06:53

[[[ Maybe! but folks will still balk at paying the FW prices.

I feel a full Blitzkrieg army needs Mobility mixed with firepower, and the ability to use terrain to our advantage! SMS fish will work like that.

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Calvin
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Post#43 » Mar 10 2006 01:57

And, just as a side point on that Lenzabi - if you like the SMS fish as a unit in themselves, actually it frees you up to take multiple pathfinder squads
- it's been tempting to take big finder squads to get the most pathfinders for you points. But seeing as Devilfish are more attractive now as a unit in themselves it opens up the option of running multiples of:

4 Pathfinders
SMS Fish
173pts

And getting both flexibility in where you fire your markerlights, better resilience to return fire, and better numbers for being below 50% (both squads run at 1 model each, rather than 3 in an 8 man squad).

Of course, the question now is whether you can spare the fast attack slots... :smile:

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Mephet'ran
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Post#44 » Mar 10 2006 02:10

I dunno, I've said it before, I just don't like the idea of taking min squads purely for the SMS. 4 pathfinders aren't going to be any good at all. You get 2 ML hits, which is enough to raise one unit to BS5, but is hardly worth it IMO. The mroe PFs you have in a unit, the less you're paying for a ML in relation to the cost of the unit because of the DF overhead.
And seeing as our MLs are already really expensive, we really don't need to make them even more so.

With 8 PFs you get an average of 4 ML hits, with them you can increase the Bs of the nearby Fireknife and the Stealth unit to 5, and take out the whole unit uin one go, rather than just hurt it.
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The Professor
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Post#45 » Mar 10 2006 03:34

But with the min sized squads, you still get 12 PFs, more than you would normally field, plus you avoid overkill and have more flexibility in terms of target selection and firelanes.

The PFs from these units can still constitute a major threat to the opponent-- in some ways a greater threat than one unit of 8-- and it gives us the firepower of the SMS fish to boot.

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shasolenzabi
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Post#46 » Mar 11 2006 12:45

[[[ Actually, I use strictly FW squad SMS-Fish for the sake of a fast and mobile playstyle. Keeps my opponents off guard as they naver know where and how far I am going and which of their units is going to get the "love" from my army!! :evil: The only PF team I like are the Tetras, and sadly, I will only get the chance to use them when a tourny allows them or an opponent who is not afraid of Forgeworld stuff let's me break them out!

Tetras are perfect for supporting Hammerheads.

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Mephet'ran
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Post#47 » Mar 11 2006 03:20

Professor, thats true, but you're using all three FA slots. I don't know about you, but I also want Piranhas and Vespids in my list.

plus you avoid overkill

I don't agree, like I said in my previous post, 4ML hits isn't overkill so long as you can co-ordinate your army to make use of them.

But I do like the idea of multiple PF units, it reduces the need to co-ordinate your entire army. But it also brings in a certain risk and that is that if you're relying on those 4 PFs, and then suddenly you don't get the hits you need. Personally I'd prefer the chance of overkill just to know that I will get enough hits to wipe that unit of the board.

Tetras are perfect for supporting Hammerheads.

I couldn't agree with you more, that was the one reason I was looking forward to them. Pity[/code]
Mephet'ran

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Calvin
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Post#48 » Mar 11 2006 07:59

Well personally I see the main advantage being the exact opposite - you encourage overkill. If your opponent wants to jump that assault squad on your pathfinders, or unleash that squad of 20-odd gaunts on them, they only kill 4 finders, whilst the other 4 are off prattling about somewhere else. This instead of losing 8 guys as you would in a single squad.

It's not simple min maxing because you aren't taking the pathfinders purely for the fish. The smaller pathfinder squads are actually better units - for the flexibility, and resilience reasons mentioned - than the single larger squad. The thing that prohibited multiple small pathfinder units before was the fact that the fish was so expensive. But an SMS fish being a more attractive prospect opens up this possibility for me.

Yes you're hard pushed for Fast attack slots if you want vespids and pirahnas. But I'm certainly considering 2 pathfinder squads of 4 finders + SMS 'fish and a squad of vespids and simply doing without the pirahnas.
The one point that does concern me is how much SMS fish and pirahna's are in direct competition with each other - pirahna's are scoring units and fast skimmers, whilst fish are non-scoring, but have greater firepower per model (though not per point) but also have tougher front and side armour.
It may turn out that, in general, I'm better off putting points into pirahna's rather than SMS fish, and so actually this pathfinder idea (and perhaps even the "lots of SMS fish in your army" idea) doesn't cut it. We shall have to see - and have a fun time finding out :)
Last edited by Calvin on Mar 11 2006 07:20, edited 1 time in total.

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