Tau Blitzkrieg... Is it now viable?

A review of past Tactics by commanders during the First, Second, Third & Fourth Phase Expansion.
User avatar
midnight
Shas
Posts: 229

Post#41 » Mar 10 2006 12:33

so a positional relay is close to worthless in an escalation/mech force.
Figures.

Leave it to the jerks to keep us from having a counter to the drop pod cheesiness.

Personally I'm all about telling drop pod armies that I want to see the models be actual models and not paper cut outs. Maybe if they had to pay an extra $200 for 5 units to drop they'd make a decent list.

User avatar
shasolenzabi
Por'Ui
Por'Ui
Posts: 395
Contact:

Post#42 » Mar 10 2006 06:53

[[[ Maybe! but folks will still balk at paying the FW prices.

I feel a full Blitzkrieg army needs Mobility mixed with firepower, and the ability to use terrain to our advantage! SMS fish will work like that.

User avatar
Calvin
Kor
Posts: 56

Post#43 » Mar 10 2006 01:57

And, just as a side point on that Lenzabi - if you like the SMS fish as a unit in themselves, actually it frees you up to take multiple pathfinder squads
- it's been tempting to take big finder squads to get the most pathfinders for you points. But seeing as Devilfish are more attractive now as a unit in themselves it opens up the option of running multiples of:

4 Pathfinders
SMS Fish
173pts

And getting both flexibility in where you fire your markerlights, better resilience to return fire, and better numbers for being below 50% (both squads run at 1 model each, rather than 3 in an 8 man squad).

Of course, the question now is whether you can spare the fast attack slots... :smile:

User avatar
Mephet'ran
Shas
Posts: 1510
Contact:

Post#44 » Mar 10 2006 02:10

I dunno, I've said it before, I just don't like the idea of taking min squads purely for the SMS. 4 pathfinders aren't going to be any good at all. You get 2 ML hits, which is enough to raise one unit to BS5, but is hardly worth it IMO. The mroe PFs you have in a unit, the less you're paying for a ML in relation to the cost of the unit because of the DF overhead.
And seeing as our MLs are already really expensive, we really don't need to make them even more so.

With 8 PFs you get an average of 4 ML hits, with them you can increase the Bs of the nearby Fireknife and the Stealth unit to 5, and take out the whole unit uin one go, rather than just hurt it.
Mephet'ran
-MTT Old School

User avatar
The Professor
Shas
Posts: 119

Post#45 » Mar 10 2006 03:34

But with the min sized squads, you still get 12 PFs, more than you would normally field, plus you avoid overkill and have more flexibility in terms of target selection and firelanes.

The PFs from these units can still constitute a major threat to the opponent-- in some ways a greater threat than one unit of 8-- and it gives us the firepower of the SMS fish to boot.

User avatar
shasolenzabi
Por'Ui
Por'Ui
Posts: 395
Contact:

Post#46 » Mar 11 2006 12:45

[[[ Actually, I use strictly FW squad SMS-Fish for the sake of a fast and mobile playstyle. Keeps my opponents off guard as they naver know where and how far I am going and which of their units is going to get the "love" from my army!! :evil: The only PF team I like are the Tetras, and sadly, I will only get the chance to use them when a tourny allows them or an opponent who is not afraid of Forgeworld stuff let's me break them out!

Tetras are perfect for supporting Hammerheads.

User avatar
Mephet'ran
Shas
Posts: 1510
Contact:

Post#47 » Mar 11 2006 03:20

Professor, thats true, but you're using all three FA slots. I don't know about you, but I also want Piranhas and Vespids in my list.

plus you avoid overkill

I don't agree, like I said in my previous post, 4ML hits isn't overkill so long as you can co-ordinate your army to make use of them.

But I do like the idea of multiple PF units, it reduces the need to co-ordinate your entire army. But it also brings in a certain risk and that is that if you're relying on those 4 PFs, and then suddenly you don't get the hits you need. Personally I'd prefer the chance of overkill just to know that I will get enough hits to wipe that unit of the board.

Tetras are perfect for supporting Hammerheads.

I couldn't agree with you more, that was the one reason I was looking forward to them. Pity[/code]
Mephet'ran

-MTT Old School

User avatar
Calvin
Kor
Posts: 56

Post#48 » Mar 11 2006 07:59

Well personally I see the main advantage being the exact opposite - you encourage overkill. If your opponent wants to jump that assault squad on your pathfinders, or unleash that squad of 20-odd gaunts on them, they only kill 4 finders, whilst the other 4 are off prattling about somewhere else. This instead of losing 8 guys as you would in a single squad.

It's not simple min maxing because you aren't taking the pathfinders purely for the fish. The smaller pathfinder squads are actually better units - for the flexibility, and resilience reasons mentioned - than the single larger squad. The thing that prohibited multiple small pathfinder units before was the fact that the fish was so expensive. But an SMS fish being a more attractive prospect opens up this possibility for me.

Yes you're hard pushed for Fast attack slots if you want vespids and pirahnas. But I'm certainly considering 2 pathfinder squads of 4 finders + SMS 'fish and a squad of vespids and simply doing without the pirahnas.
The one point that does concern me is how much SMS fish and pirahna's are in direct competition with each other - pirahna's are scoring units and fast skimmers, whilst fish are non-scoring, but have greater firepower per model (though not per point) but also have tougher front and side armour.
It may turn out that, in general, I'm better off putting points into pirahna's rather than SMS fish, and so actually this pathfinder idea (and perhaps even the "lots of SMS fish in your army" idea) doesn't cut it. We shall have to see - and have a fun time finding out :)
Last edited by Calvin on Mar 11 2006 07:20, edited 1 time in total.

Tallen
Shas
Posts: 20
Contact:

Post#49 » Mar 11 2006 05:40

The idea I'd proposed about rushing an opponent with tanks relies upon their moderate to high armor values, firepower, and mobility. Adding pathfinders takes away too much mobility. Likewise, using Piranhas takes away durability. Using the PF's in this sort of list might prevent you from removing some of your opponent's heavy weapons because they are out of range or LoS and the PF's can't move quick enough to target them as well, so your tanks aren't 100% safe. Using Piranhas lets you bring a bit more firepower to bear where you want it - but even after you clear out weapons that would have been dangerous to DF and HH's, your Piranhas are still vulnerable to many basic and some special troop weapons that DF and HH's can ignore. Once *all* your units are suddenly invulnerable to return fire no matter how much of it there is, who cares what your opponent does?

The instance I could see Piranhas working is where they take Fusion blasters and replace the deep-striking Sunforge suits.
Eat Wake.

User avatar
Calvin
Kor
Posts: 56

Post#50 » Mar 11 2006 07:23

Well then minimum sized pathfinder squads are still your cheapest way of getting hold of SMS fish.
It's 48pts for a min sized finder squad. 60 for firewarriors. Take the pathfinders and hide them in a bush if you really want to, though under the new rules I don't know why you would...

User avatar
Mephet'ran
Shas
Posts: 1510
Contact:

Post#51 » Mar 12 2006 05:54

I'm still not sure exactly how well Piranhas are actually going to perform, thats something that can only be found out with playtesting.
Should it turn out that they don't actually deliver, then 2 PF units is the obvious choice.

The reason I don't want to just say, ok, no Piranhas is because I see them as the perfect Seeker carriers. Thats all I'd use them for, racing up the flank and unloading seekers into the side armour.
Mephet'ran

-MTT Old School

User avatar
Calvin
Kor
Posts: 56

Post#52 » Mar 12 2006 08:05

Certainly an option. My main quibble is the size, they aren't small for squad vehicles. Compare them to vypers for instance... you aren't going to do much hiding if you bring them in more than 1 per squad. So it's either very few pirahna's or else very few other fast attack choices.

User avatar
Mephet'ran
Shas
Posts: 1510
Contact:

Post#53 » Mar 12 2006 10:04

I know, but I also don't need more than 4 seekers. So I'd take unit of 2 or max three. I don't know how much a Piranha costs though. I assume seekers are 10pts as before and fusion is +5, I think.

I really like the idea of 2 PF units though, imagine the cross fire.... :evil:
Mephet'ran

-MTT Old School

User avatar
kai'lore
Aun'O (Ret.)
Posts: 3480

Post#54 » Mar 12 2006 09:03

good point Calvin, I've yet to see one but they look pretty big...

If they are in our FA slots, why didn't we get Tetras!?!

kai

User avatar
Mephet'ran
Shas
Posts: 1510
Contact:

Post#55 » Mar 13 2006 12:35

I wish we had tetras.... :::(
Mephet'ran

-MTT Old School

Mugulord
Shas
Posts: 11

Post#56 » Mar 13 2006 12:36

Because games workshop gave us piranhas. They figured we needed another devil fish, without the transport capacity and with the option of a fusion blaster. Personally I think tetras would have made more sence, but theres a good chance they would have been made too powerfull with the new markerlight rules. Emperor forbid we threaten the marines :P

User avatar
Mephet'ran
Shas
Posts: 1510
Contact:

Post#57 » Mar 13 2006 05:59

We don't need Tetras to threaten Marines. Take 2 units of Sniper drones and you'll wipe most marines armies off the board. I personally am thinking about taking one Sniper unit, one Railhead and 2 Broadsides.
Mainly because 80% of my opponents are MEq players :evil:
Mephet'ran

-MTT Old School

User avatar
Markerlite
Shas
Posts: 232

Post#58 » Mar 13 2006 06:36

Mephet'ran wrote:We don't need Tetras to threaten Marines. Take 2 units of Sniper drones and you'll wipe most marines armies off the board. I personally am thinking about taking one Sniper unit, one Railhead and 2 Broadsides.
Mainly because 80% of my opponents are MEq players :evil:


I'm thinking on the same lines myself.... But 3 sniper units, not 2. I think this could be a viable alternative to the 3 HH Heavy Support we seem to be seeing lately...
Markerlite
(The beer that always hits home)

Return to “Archival Datacore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests