Dropping deuces on Daemonhunters!

A review of past Tactics by commanders during the First, Second, Third & Fourth Phase Expansion.
swanky whoopee
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Dropping deuces on Daemonhunters!

Post#1 » Nov 14 2006 06:10

First, of all, I'll be honest - I'm a new person to Tau. I've been playing 40k on and off for a little over a year (not much, I know), and have played Tyranids, Space Marines, and a little IG. Tau by far, seem the best.

I have the codex and the rulebook, but I'm still not to keen on Tau tactics. I'd love to play a full-mech, suit-heavy army (gundam wing, I think it's called?).

In any case, I'll be playing against my friend's Daemonhunters army most of the time, and I've read the codex. I'm a little frightened of one thing...

THE SHROUDING.

I had planned on filling up heavy support slots with Hammerheads, taking two squads of DF-mounted Firewarrios, and filling up the rest of my points with mainly 'suits and/or Pirannhas. But... I don't know what would be good to play against DH! Obviously, the helpful range of the railguns will be torn to pieces by "The Shrouding" rule, so I'm kind of stuck.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

-swanky whoopee

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Post#2 » Nov 14 2006 06:27

Can you please explain what the SHROUDING does? I'm not quite up to date with Grey Knights.
Anyhow I believe the Grey Knights to be very weak against Tau. Being so expsensive they normally lack numbers to it's easier to avoid and concentrate fire to take them down very quickly.
So just move fast, conventrate fire and bring those big basturds down one at a time, :evil: Just don't get into CC.
They are going to be tough to take down, especially those terminators. Use crisis plasma fire and everything will be OK :D
As for the shroud I have no idea how that is going to effect yourgamplay
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swanky whoopee
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Post#3 » Nov 14 2006 06:30

The Shrouding means that every time you shoot at a Grey Knight unit (Terminator, normal Grey Knight, Chapter Master, or Brother-Captain) you must roll 3d6 and multiply the result by 3", and that is how far away the firing unit can see. Basically, it's like the night-fighting rule.

Unfortunately, equipment, wargear, and all other anti-night fighting stuff is negated by "The Shrouding," so blacksun filters won't do any good.

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Post#4 » Nov 14 2006 06:34

Isn't it 2D6 instead of 3D6 ?
You can use Firestorm for example. The short range means you have to get that close to slaughter them. And in-your-face Ionhead is good at that one too, except it don't go back to 24 inches after firing...
FoF works nice too. Just concentrate on roasting them. If you feel like being nasty, use Bladestorm suits (or Aurora, or Blinding Spear), within the 12 inches of its optimal range it slaughter them, and doesn't miss.

Anyway, they are few and slow, it should be easy if you stay mobile.
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Post#5 » Nov 14 2006 06:35

Oh, that could be a problem. In that case you will need to get within 21" (thats the average seeing distant in nightfight) and FoF. Also Smart Missile ignore night-fight, vision/seeeying distant test so they would come in very handy.Plasma rifle rapid fire is VERY helpful here.
Just a quick question though, who uses it, who does it effect/how long is the range of it?
If only one bloke can cast it take him out, then the rest will be lunch. :nice:
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Post#6 » Nov 14 2006 06:41

Let's repeat it : Shrouding does not use night fighting rules. SMS doesn't ignore Shrouding.

Grey knights cast it, on themselves, and it therefore has no range (IIRC).
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Post#7 » Nov 14 2006 06:42

Shrouding is definitely 3D6*3"

Generally Grey knight armies are tiny and shrouding doesn't affect grey knight vehicles.
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Post#8 » Nov 14 2006 06:43

Soji wrote:Let's repeat it : Shrouding does not use night fighting rules. SMS doesn't ignore Shrouding.

Grey knights cast it, on themselves, and it therefore has no range (IIRC).

Oh, ok. Wasn't really quite sure on that one anyway :-(
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Post#9 » Nov 14 2006 06:44

3d6x3 is piece of cake. You will usually be able to fire within 32 inches... Most of our weapons don't even have that much range. DH are considered the weakest army of this game for a reason.
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Post#10 » Nov 15 2006 04:18

.... is your opponent pure DH, or DH with allies (or allied DH?) The strategies for taking on each type of DH build is vastly different.

Be glad to help, though - I play DH as an alternate force.
-Az/JGrimm

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Post#11 » Nov 15 2006 05:15

My opponent plays pure DH, with no allies/inducted units. His army is basically a Chapter Master, a squad of termies, two squads of Knights, a Dreadnought, and somewhere around 200 points that he hasn't designated yet. I expect that he'll take a Vindicare Assassin (the sniper one, right?), probably another squad of Knights, and whatever other heavy-duty stuff he needs to fill 1500-2000 points.

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Post#12 » Nov 15 2006 09:23

swanky whoopee wrote:My opponent plays pure DH, with no allies/inducted units. His army is basically a Chapter Master, a squad of termies, two squads of Knights, a Dreadnought, and somewhere around 200 points that he hasn't designated yet. I expect that he'll take a Vindicare Assassin (the sniper one, right?), probably another squad of Knights, and whatever other heavy-duty stuff he needs to fill 1500-2000 points.



Muahahah!

I shouldn't deconstruct this - a couple of my regular opponants have started reading ATT to figure out what I'm doing to 'em. :)

Let me see if I can help:

- Chapter Master.

I won't beat around the bush - these guys are, even for the points cost, the single best all-around unit in the whole of 40k. Assuming he kits him out to fight you, you're looking at a Grey Knight Termie that you /cannot/ target (as he's an IC) until he's in assault range, with psychic powers that can decimate entire squads, multiple attacks, and a force weapon.

EEVIL.

The tradeoff? He /can/ deep strike, but he doesn't move very fast. 6", + 6" charge, 24" shooting range (w/storm bolter... and if he trades out SB/Nemesis, he's crazy). Stay out of the way, and he really can't do much to you - he doesn't have enough mobility. If he gets close, however, you're ... well.. trashed. Merrily.

- Termies.

Termies are /always/ mean, but like most grey knights, they're exceedingly expensive and exceedingly slow. IMHO, you don't play knights without a squad of termies, despite the cost - they're too pretty and too flavorful to ignore. If he's wise, he'll deep strike these against you - and, again, if he gets in HTH, you're completely ... well.. dead. Don't forget, these guys are STR-6 Power Weapons - they don't /need/ power fists - and are probably psychic as well.

They'll try to get close, though, and they move slow - you should be able, again, to outmaneuver them.


- Knights.

Exceedingly expensive space marines with a hatful of special rules and fearless. They die pretty much the same way marines do, though, and their increased HTH potential doesn't mean much against Tau. (STR6, +1 Attack regardless of charge... does it really matter? You were probably dead anyway.)

Truthfully, though, he's got about half as many as a marine player, and while their special weapons are tres cool, your complete lack of psychic ability works against the DH player, who by default is geared to face psychics, whether he wants to be or not.

Shrouding might hurt you, but not as much as you may suspect. Leave the carbines at home, though, these guys are /FEARLESS/, and they'll probably move relentlessly forward, unless he's living on Psycannons. Even then, they probably will.

Psycannons bear special mention: they are really hard hitting heavy bolters that can be used on the move and deny all invulnerable saves. THey're the hardest weapon in the arsenal, really, that he can put on a troop choice. They also completely stink for bringing down tanks. Completely and utterly.

This should suggest a strategy.

- Dread.

GK Dreads are almost required in a pure GK force without land raiders - and trust me when I say GK Marines are the /only/ marines where a land raider's actually a good choice.

The reason is simple: GK's have NO anti-tank ability. NOne whatsoever. They can't even work up a good sneeze against AV13 without trading significant advantages (SB + Nemesis = True Grit.. and you're /paying/ for true grit on every guy, why would you give it up?). So, this Dread's going to have a TL Lascannon on it, and probably a Missile Launcher. It will also have Aegis, and MAY have SHrouding.

Tough bugger.

However, like all marine dreads, a couple of railguns takes care of this problem. I DO NOT reccomend fusion - like all marine dreads, if your fusion doesn't work, for whatever reason, you're going to get assaulted or lascannoned in the next turn - and even without DCCW (Dreadnaught Close Combat Weapons), you can't stand up to assault from something that counts as 10 models and hits like a brick.

On the plus side - take this guy out and your tanks will have a field day.

- Assassins.

You can only hope he takes a Vindicare. While Vindicare are fun, they're not particularly dangerous to the Tau, as we don't have a lot of special characters for them to target and destroy - just some not-very-expensive ICs and a couple of crisis suits. Given that the Vindicare only gets six shots, you can effectively ignore him for most of the game, provided you keep an eye on his lines of sight. If he gets troublesome, drop a plasma shot or railgun on him.. he'll go away.

If he takes a Callidus, that could be problematic. THey're tough, and need to die early to avoid their stupid neural shredder, which will do significant damage to your ground teams. Tau just don't have the LD to stand up to it - and yes, it's a weapon that attacks your LD.

Eversor? Shoot him. He'll die.

Culexus? In this particular case, the Culexus - unlike most times - will hurt him more than you. HOWEVER, the Culexus damages your leadership and brings AP3+ shots to the table - again, drop something big on it early. YOu should have capacity to spare.


Suggestions for beating him?

Tanks, crisis, and mobility. Go mech, and he can't catch you to actually hurt you, and his shooting will largely bounce off your armor. JSJ crisis, provided you can avoid his infiltrators and deep strikers, will mince him.

HElios fireteams will come in handy - they'll decimate the Grand Master and the Termies - that termie squad, just four strong, is over 260 points - probably up in the 300s. That's a significant chunk of change that's horribly demoralizing to lose in a turn. You can also counter-deep-strike with remarkable effectiveness.

Preserve your tanks, use your mobility, and claim objectives in the last turns. Grey Knights aren't any better than Marines at surviving - and they're hugely more expensive.


Should be a fun game.... for you. :) My GK's struggle against mech tau. Static tau they tear apart.
-Az/JGrimm

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The Professor
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Post#13 » Nov 15 2006 10:13

Consider also that GK are some of the best mid-range shooters in the game. Between Psycannons and Storm Bolters, they can throw out a significant amount of fire at ranges where the shrouding can actually be effective.

However, they are slow, overcosted, and have a terrible time with any kind of armor. Between our JSJ crisis, Stealths (which beat them at their own game) and Hammerheads, they'll have a terrible time. Just kill his Dreads, and then use your armor and mobility to destroy him, just watch out for deepstriking squads, they can put a lot of S4 and S6 shots into your rear armor if you don't watch it (but don't worry too much, any deepstriking squad he has bar ISTs will cost more than your HH.)
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Post#14 » Nov 16 2006 12:43

GK's are way overpriced (pts-wise). 25 pts for a basic trooper. Your fireknives should easily be able to kill the GK's. the chapter master is sort of scary, but avoidable, since it's not like you're using world eaters or anything. Termies and Dreadnoughts are basically slightly more expensive (i think) versions of space marines, except they CANNOT be armed with asscans. hurray.

On the whole, hammerheads are still the way to go. The only anti-tank he's got in the entire game are 3 dreadnoughts with tl-las/missiles, which is hugely expensive. Your rails should easily out-duel the dreads, after which they cause havoc on everything else.

Just take your standard take-all-comers, or if you want, an anti-SM list. play standard tau, no real tricks required. Shrouding's no good; if he's far enough to avoid you, he's too far to shoot you also, so you're stale-mated til you're close enough.

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Post#15 » Nov 16 2006 02:44

I've found that it takes about 3 FoF squads to clean a unit of GK's (note, not terminators) from the table.

I've never lost to GK.


Remember he needs an inquisitor for an assassin.

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Post#16 » Nov 16 2006 06:03

Very nice, I'll keep this all in mind if I ever face our local GK player.
Someone once told me that GK were the most powerful race ever....
I now know that they are also the most costly race ever forcing them to play with trivial sized armies ;)
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Post#17 » Nov 16 2006 06:26

That's nothing. Originally every Grey Knight was a full fledged (and very powerful) psyker as well as a powerful Space Marine hero in Termie armor. They all had Nemesis weapons, who were (and are supposed to be) energetic force weapon that give a bonus to strength (the one the Chapter Master currently has). And they each had an Aegis suit inside the Termie armor.
All in all they were like an entire army of what is currently the GK Chaptermaster. For a good sized game, you were looking at an 8 model army, not really useable on a W40k board.
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Post#18 » Nov 16 2006 06:27

:eek:
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