Tau gue'vesa project

General discussions about the hobby side to Tau & 40K.
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QimRas
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#19 » Jun 28 2017 03:27

Arka0415 wrote:Yeah, Tau definitely have a prejudiced streak- however, it's pretty clear I think that Humans (and more with the other alien auxiliaries) are treated much more fairly than the Imperium (and Eldar) treats aliens. However, it doesn't look like Humans get the Japanese Internment treatment either- humans are considered compatible with the Tau'va, not as potential spies and traitors viewed with outright hostility. Which is progress! Even if they don't get first-rate equipment.

Also, one thing to consider- lots of Imperial propaganda says that the Ethereals mind-control the Tau, that the Tau are secretly an evil totalitarian society, and all sorts of other lies. From the inside though, we know that Tau society is held together more by duty, tradition, and the caste system than it is by some form of psycho-indoctrination. So when we hear about Tau racism, that could also be Imperial propaganda.

Speaking of Genestealers- those kits could be a good source of stubbers and stub-guns, which might be ideal guns to give Gue'vesa troops who aren't lucky enough get access to Pulse Rifles.

Also, I've seen online that people have done Gue'vesa conversions by making custom, sculpted human-sized helmets and armor. I have a hard time believing that Tau would do that, converting factories and assembly lines to produce human gear. Rather, I think humans would make do with XL versions of Fire Warrior gear or armor of their own design.


I imagine that human industry in Tau space is a thing, and likely would be a major part of integrating humans into the Empire. Give them the means to make things for themselves and the Empire does not need to make things for them. Learning to use machines without religion, learning to operate without the huge bureaucracy that is the Imperium, learning to operate military units with discipline not enforced at gunpoint, all of these things would not only benefit the humans but also the Tau.

Plus the reeducation courses would likely be hilarious.

Human: *mumbles something and pushes a button, then does complicated hand gestures. A bolt drops out of the machine*
Earth Caste: "No no no, look, stop all the praying. You only have to hit the button. Watch." *punches button and a bolt drops out of the machine*
Human: *Gasps* "But how? You did not appease the Machine Spirit!"
Earth Caste: "Its just a machine. You push a button, it does something. Thats it. Its not even a full AI."
Human: "But the Machine Spirits are godly beings!"
Earth Caste: "No they are not, they are just machines. Even a full AI is just an AI. Look over there." *Points at DerpDrone* 'Hey Derpy, come here a second."
DerpDrone: *Floats over and slams into the wall, then turns to give its attention to the Earth caste*
Earth Caste: "See? Derpy here is an AI, and hes not as bright as your average sentient. Certainly not a godly being."
*Three humans that were following Derpy slam into the wall and fall into a pile while mumbling prayers. The human the Earth Caste was talking to gasps and slams into the wall too.*
Earth Caste: *Sighs* "This is going to be a long assignment..."

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Panzer
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#20 » Jun 28 2017 03:36

QimRas wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:Yeah, Tau definitely have a prejudiced streak- however, it's pretty clear I think that Humans (and more with the other alien auxiliaries) are treated much more fairly than the Imperium (and Eldar) treats aliens. However, it doesn't look like Humans get the Japanese Internment treatment either- humans are considered compatible with the Tau'va, not as potential spies and traitors viewed with outright hostility. Which is progress! Even if they don't get first-rate equipment.

Also, one thing to consider- lots of Imperial propaganda says that the Ethereals mind-control the Tau, that the Tau are secretly an evil totalitarian society, and all sorts of other lies. From the inside though, we know that Tau society is held together more by duty, tradition, and the caste system than it is by some form of psycho-indoctrination. So when we hear about Tau racism, that could also be Imperial propaganda.

Speaking of Genestealers- those kits could be a good source of stubbers and stub-guns, which might be ideal guns to give Gue'vesa troops who aren't lucky enough get access to Pulse Rifles.

Also, I've seen online that people have done Gue'vesa conversions by making custom, sculpted human-sized helmets and armor. I have a hard time believing that Tau would do that, converting factories and assembly lines to produce human gear. Rather, I think humans would make do with XL versions of Fire Warrior gear or armor of their own design.


I imagine that human industry in Tau space is a thing, and likely would be a major part of integrating humans into the Empire. Give them the means to make things for themselves and the Empire does not need to make things for them. Learning to use machines without religion, learning to operate without the huge bureaucracy that is the Imperium, learning to operate military units with discipline not enforced at gunpoint, all of these things would not only benefit the humans but also the Tau.

Plus the reeducation courses would likely be hilarious.

Human: *mumbles something and pushes a button, then does complicated hand gestures. A bolt drops out of the machine*
Earth Caste: "No no no, look, stop all the praying. You only have to hit the button. Watch." *punches button and a bolt drops out of the machine*
Human: *Gasps* "But how? You did not appease the Machine Spirit!"
Earth Caste: "Its just a machine. You push a button, it does something. Thats it. Its not even a full AI."
Human: "But the Machine Spirits are godly beings!"
Earth Caste: "No they are not, they are just machines. Even a full AI is just an AI. Look over there." *Points at DerpDrone* 'Hey Derpy, come here a second."
DerpDrone: *Floats over and slams into the wall, then turns to give its attention to the Earth caste*
Earth Caste: "See? Derpy here is an AI, and hes not as bright as your average sentient. Certainly not a godly being."
*Three humans that were following Derpy slam into the wall and fall into a pile while mumbling prayers. The human the Earth Caste was talking to gasps and slams into the wall too.*
Earth Caste: *Sighs* "This is going to be a long assignment..."

To be fair though, the real Machine Spirits are in fact more than just AI. ;)

Also while funny, neither does everything have a Machine Spirit, nor is the common human that much into praying for every single button pushing. They do have normal machines as well and the whole praying thing is more something for the Mechanicum or humans who operate highly advanced machines like Imperial Knights and tanks and such. :D

Anyway, yeah that's most likely what they do. Help the humans to do stuff on their own, improve their fascilities a good bit and help them improve their overall quality of life but without giving them too much of their Tech.
It's more like western people try to help africans to live and build something on their own instead of just throwing cars and Aldis and whatnot at them until they are happy. :P

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QimRas
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#21 » Jun 28 2017 03:47

The imagery in my head was just too good to not post. But yeah, I fully imagine that human auxiliaries use mostly their own equipment and vehicles. It just makes more sense. Longstanding human Septs may start to integrate more, but even then its more likely to be converted equipment, like what the Vespids use.

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Arka0415
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#22 » Jun 28 2017 06:28

QimRas wrote:The imagery in my head was just too good to not post. But yeah, I fully imagine that human auxiliaries use mostly their own equipment and vehicles. It just makes more sense. Longstanding human Septs may start to integrate more, but even then its more likely to be converted equipment, like what the Vespids use.


I think reality (fiction?) is closer to that image than you think! The cognitive dissonance of joining the Tau'va must be huge. Technology isn't stagnant nor revered, and industrial output isn't hoarded nor carefully rationed. In the Imperium, every gun is the Emperor's weapon, made in His factorium and blessed by His divine light, yada yada, probably more valuable than a human life. The Tau, though, see technology in a more realistic/commodified way, placing infinitely more value on a Tau soldier than on his equipment. Learning the values of camaraderie, tolerance, and (most importantly!) a cosmology with no God-Emperor would be a colossal change for any human who was once part of the Imperium!

Learning to live alongside AI, to respect other alien races, and to see machines and objects in a non-religious way would be a big part of assimilation into the Tau Empire!

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TauMan
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#23 » Jun 28 2017 10:47

Well this conversation has developed far beyond what it was this morning; when I first saw it posted. Most of what I was going to say has already been said; but here are some links from our own A.T.T. forum that shed light on the topic.

From the A.T.T. Library
The Card Catalogue This is an amazing resource with links to Tau fluff from GW, FW and BL. List of all the White Dwarf issues - UK, US and AU that deal with the Tau. Everything from background, modeling, stories and battle reports. Links to all BL short stories, novellas and novels.

Here are a couple of examples.
Cleanse the Xenos This an Imperium review of a Tau propaganda film. Includes first hand interviews with humans living under the Greater Good. Spoiler alert, life is better in the Tau Empire!
Front line Report on Tau Battle Doctrine Two water caste journalists discuss fire caste battle doctrine from the front line.

Some things to keep in mind with a Gue'vesa army.

    Would Involve Three Stages
  • Newly joined to the Tau Empire - Have same battle doctrine and equipment as the Imperial Guard (Same IG stat lines)
  • Intermediate - Now have more fire caste weapons, some crisis suits, stealth suits, some Tau vehicles (Same IG stat lines)
  • Established - Have identical battle doctrine and equipment as the fire caste. No IG support weapons or vehicles. Might even have Ethereals? (Same stat lines as Tau)

    Problems with the last one
    Tau don't fight as well, not because their weaker; but because their training emphasizes long range combat over close combat. A fully integrated Gue'vesa army would have adopted this battle doctrine. Hence they would have the same stat line as fire warriors.

In reverse of the above, since 4th edition I have played by Farsight fire warriors with the same stat line as an Imperial Guardsman. Fight Orks exclusively for 230 years and see if that doesn't impress on you the need for close combat skills? :roll:

TauMan
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Arka0415
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#24 » Jun 28 2017 11:07

TauMan wrote:Tau don't fight as well, not because their weaker; but because their training emphasizes long range combat over close combat. A fully integrated Gue'vesa army would have adopted this battle doctrine. Hence they would have the same stat line as fire warriors.

In reverse of the above, since 4th edition I have played by Farsight fire warriors with the same stat line as an Imperial Guardsman. Fight Orks exclusively for 230 years and see if that doesn't impress on you the need for close combat skills?


If I'm not mistaken, the only difference between an Imperial Guardsman and a Fire Warrior is that the Fire Warrior loses 1 point of Weapon Skill in favor of 1 point of Armor Save. Or are you referring to something else?

Hold on though, you've been playing for over ten years with your Fire Warriors having bonus Weapon Skill? How did you justify that to your opponents?

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Panzer
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#25 » Jun 29 2017 01:29

TauMan wrote:Tau don't fight as well, not because their weaker; but because their training emphasizes long range combat over close combat. A fully integrated Gue'vesa army would have adopted this battle doctrine. Hence they would have the same stat line as fire warriors.

In reverse of the above, since 4th edition I have played by Farsight fire warriors with the same stat line as an Imperial Guardsman. Fight Orks exclusively for 230 years and see if that doesn't impress on you the need for close combat skills?


Yeah, no. I think that's bs. T'au are physically weaker than your average human. That's a fact. Not to mention comparing them to a trained soldier. That has nothing to do with training, it's a physical limitation, just as that they have weak eyesight.
Those limitation are the reason why they are all about tech supported ranged combat in the first place and why they only have BS4+ without Markerlights (Characters obviously being the exception and Vehicle seem to have some tech battlesuits don't have lol).

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Arka0415
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#26 » Jun 29 2017 04:32

Panzer wrote:T'au are physically weaker than your average human. That's a fact. Not to mention comparing them to a trained soldier. That has nothing to do with training, it's a physical limitation, just as that they have weak eyesight.


To the best of my knowledge...

- Tau have decent eyesight but are slightly nearsighted or have difficulty focusing on distant objects
- Fire Caste Tau are physically the strongest, while Earth caste are physically the hardiest
- However, neither are as physically strong as humans
- The Tau physical weakness is a product of evolution on the planet T'au, which has weaker gravity than Earth
- The Tau consider hand-to-hand combat barbaric and do not meaningfully train their infantry in close combat
- Tau age more rapidly than humans, and have shorter lifespans

I'd say they're weaker than humans, and I think the lore backs that up. However, I guess you could argue that a Tau born on a higher-gravity world might develop a bit more physical strength?

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TauMan
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#27 » Jun 29 2017 12:50

Image

The following should be read with a faux New England accent: The old Shas'El takes pipe out his mouth and says, "Now all you young shas'saal gather around and let this here old fire warrior knock some of those crazy ideas outta your heads. Ummgh (clears throat as he leans back in his rocking chair) well back in our day..."

Note: all stats referred to are those in effect from 3rd edition to 7th editions of Warhammer 40,000. Do not compare with the new stats in 8th edition.


Fire Warrior or ‘Why a Tau Fire Warrior has a Strength and Toughness of 3, but also has a Ballistic Skill of 3 and Weapon Skill of 2’

What the Codices Say
“The Tau dislike close combat. Preferring to destroy their enemies at long range with high-tech weaponry as they are neither particularly strong or tough.” pg. 2, Codex: Tau Games Workshop Ltd. © Games Workshop Limited, 2001. (3rd edition WH40k)

“They [Tau Fire caste] see ranged combat as preferable to the somewhat brutal affair of close combat. They are not naturally equipped for such fights, preferring to use advanced weaponry rather than brute force to win battles.” pg. 9, Tau Empire, Games Workshop Ltd. © Games Workshop Limited, 2005. (4th- 5th edition WH40k)

“Through the years, the Fire caste’s traits of strength and physical size have continued to increase, and any weak strains are quickly weeded out. They are guided by the Code of Fire, which translates loosely as, ‘the ways of the warrior’. It stresses martial arts, loyalty, and merciless war tempered by wisdom.” pg. 7, Codex Tau Empire, Games Workshop Ltd. © Games Workshop Limited, 2012. (6th edition WH40k)

Strength and Toughness
Note by the time of the Sixth edition of WH40K there is no longer a mention of the Tau not being weaker or softer, and no mention even them preferring range combat over close combat. I don’t have the 7th edition Tau codex, but guess it that it is pretty much the same.

From 3rd edition to 7th edition a standard fire warrior stat line included a “3” for both Strength and Toughness. So even with the reference in the first Codex: Tau the fire warriors are “are neither particularly strong or tough,” as concerns the game, a fire warrior always had the same Strength and Toughness, the same values as an Imperial Guardsman. I guess maybe it was easier to round up the numbers, a human guardsman having a “3” Strength versus a fire warrior’s “2.80” for Strength?

Not that there haven't been fictional attempts to "down size" or "munchkin size" the Tau Fire caste.

"‘Little guy’s heavy,’ he muttered." pg. 60, Shadowsun by Braden Campbell, Published in 2013 by Black Library, Games Workshop Ltd. Games Workshop Limited 2013.

Ballistic Skill
Then there is of course a fire warrior’s ballistic score of “3” because they “prefer range combat”. Like their counter parts in the Astra Militarum, the Fire caste training emphasizes marksmanship; but the also Fire caste de-emphasizes close combat; hence the Weapon skill of “2”.


Fire Caste Battle Doctrine or ‘Why a Fire Warrior has an Initiative of 2’
“Tau battle plans are very complex as each Hunter Cadre is assigned specific targets, locations, and times. Teams are briefed at length beforehand and simulations are widely employed. The Tau may start with elaborate flowing attacks, each launched with perfect planning, but sooner or later their prepared scenarios cease to apply and they lose momentum. When this occurs, they disengage and plan anew.” pg. 13, Tau Empire, Games Workshop Ltd. © Games Workshop Limited, 2005. (4th- 5th edition WH40k)


This portrayed in Fire Warrior novel.
“Your mission is simple: engage and destroy. Conduct the mont’sel combat-pattern at all times; be swift and leave nothing alive…" Pg 15, Firewarrior by Simon Spurrier, 2005 by Black Library, Games Workshop Ltd. © Games Workshop Limited, 2005, 2011.

This was of course because in 3rd edition the Tau had Strategy rating of “2”. You remember 3rd edition WH40k don’t you? With Strategy Ratings, Strategy Cards and all that? Actually, I don’t remember 3rd edition either as I started playing during 4th edition.

3rd Edition WH40K Strategy Ratings
I won’t go into all the details, but each WH40k army had a Strategy rating that not only reflected the individual qualities of the soldier’s dexterity – Guardsman, Space Marine, Fire warrior etc.; but combined that with the Army’s overall battle doctrine and training. The Strategy rating effected deployment and “strategy cards” were something like warlord traits that your army could use. (I might not all of this exactly right, but you can see it was a complex thing for each army in WH40k.)

Fire warriors had an Initiative of “2”, which wasn’t a reflection on the agility or dexterity of a fire warrior, but rather the reliance on a superior instructing them on what preset formation to use in any given situation, like the “mont’sel combat-pattern” from Fire Warrior. Added together with the fact that Fire caste “battle plans are very complex,” and it gave the Tau army a Strategy Rating of “2”.

So, with all that in mind the reason that Fire warriors had a low Initiative score like “2” has nothing to do with poorer reflexes. Although there has been an attempt to reinterpet the lore, and change it to make the Tau have slower reflexes. The following is from the novel, Shadowsun:

"Shadowsun took several steps back. Outside of her battlesuit, Falkens would have a definite advantage over her. Humans were, she hated to admit, possessed of faster reflexes than tau." [pg. 68] Shadowsun by Braden Campbell, Published in 2013 by Black Library, Games Workshop Ltd. Games Workshop Limited 2013.

I guess Braden Campbell didn’t play 3rd edition either.


Tau Eyesight
In the original Tau background published in the White Dwarf gave two pieces of information on Tau eyesight. (No citations here as all my WD copies are in storage – so I’m working from memory here.)
  • The Tau are near sighted (as compared to humans)
  • The Tau can see in both the infra red and ultraviolet spectrums (as compared to humans)

Strangely, it stated the Imperium thought this was why the Tau didn’t fight so well? What the snae’ta? That would imply the Tau are far sighted rather than near sighted, because once you got close to them they couldn’t see you well enough to hit you. Nonsensical explanation’s never work. However, what results from this is that the Tau have better night vision (infra red) and better colour vision (ultraviolet). This has no bearing on the game, but does present some interesting items for a writer of Tau stories.

So what can we say from this.
  • Tau, as compared to humans, have poor distance vision.
  • Humans, as compared to Tau, have poor colour vision.
  • Humans, as compared to Tau, have poor night vision.

Summation
  • Tau (Fire caste) are as not as physically strong or tough as humans, but the difference is so slight, that they in effect are statistically equivalent to humans. (Strength of “3” and a Toughness of “3”)
  • The Tau de-emphasize close combat combat in preference of range combat (Ballistic Skill of “3”, but a Weapon Skill of “2”)
  • Tau (Fire caste) reliance on preset formations and elaborate battle plans, mean they react slower in combat as compared to humans (Initiative of “2”)
  • Tau age at a different rate than humans due to a different evolutionary development. But when compared to the wide variety if life expectancies of humans in the Imperium e.g. 35 years of age being an average age for a human living in a Hive City; while the Adeptus Astartes live for a thousand years or more. A Tau life span would, therefore, probably fall somewhere in the middle range of human life spans.
  • The Earth caste eugenic program since the beginning of the Second Sphere of Expansion, has skewed the genetic development of the Tau. What this means is anybody’s guess, but it what it implies, is that we have no idea what the original abilities of the each caste were before the genetic manipulation.

TauMan

PS Here is something to think about. What's all this about the Tau being "little guys", near sighted, can't react fast enough, can't fight, and can't show emotion on their blue faces. Hmm...sort of sounds like seventy six years ago doesn't it?

Spoiler!
Image

Imperial Guardsman giving the Bluey the what-for!
Viro’los gu brath!
N.Y.A.B.X.T.T.

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Arka0415
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#28 » Jun 29 2017 08:44

TauMan wrote:
  • Tau (Fire caste) are as not as physically strong or tough as humans, but the difference is so slight, that they in effect are statistically equivalent to humans. (Strength of “3” and a Toughness of “3”)
  • The Tau de-emphasize close combat combat in preference of range combat (Ballistic Skill of “3”, but a Weapon Skill of “2”)
  • Tau (Fire caste) reliance on preset formations and elaborate battle plans, mean they react slower in combat as compared to humans (Initiative of “2”)
  • Tau age at a different rate than humans due to a different evolutionary development. But when compared to the wide variety if life expectancies of humans in the Imperium e.g. 35 years of age being an average age for a human living in a Hive City; while the Adeptus Astartes live for a thousand years or more. A Tau life span would, therefore, probably fall somewhere in the middle range of human life spans.
  • The Earth caste eugenic program since the beginning of the Second Sphere of Expansion, has skewed the genetic development of the Tau. What this means is anybody’s guess, but it what it implies, is that we have no idea what the original abilities of the each caste were before the genetic manipulation.


Tau aren't as strong, that's clear I think, but even though that (slight) weakness isn't reflected in their statline, I think it is relevant. To stay on topic, we're talking about the real roles Gue'vesa would play in a Tau army. It's clear that the Tau love separating their auxiliaries by biological ability- we don't see Tau making Kroot tank commanders or Vespid snipers. With this allocation of the right roles to the right species, I think we'd definitely see the Tau using Gue'vesa in somewhat niche roles as well. Gue'vesa are of course highly-civilized and adaptable, like Tau, so I think we'd see them in conventional roles (like Fire Warriors or similar foot infantry) or more specialized Breacher-style assault troops. Also, there could definitely be first-generation Gue'vesa who can't be retrained with Tau combat doctrine, and might make effective, burly skirmish troops not unlike Kroot.

Also, Tau auxiliaries are still definitely allowed to bring their own, cultural style of war to the Tau cadre. I'm sure most Tau aren't too fond of Krootox but they form an effective part of the fighting force. Likewise you might see Gue'vesa being allowed to maintain and manufacture chainswords, or continue to operate up-gunned Imperial Guard tanks, or things like that.

TauMan wrote:Here is something to think about. What's all this about the Tau being "little guys", near sighted, can't react fast enough, can't fight, and can't show emotion on their blue faces. Hmm...sort of sounds like seventy six years ago doesn't it?


I've lived my whole adult life in Japan, and I have Japanese family. These sorts of things do, sometimes, give me pause playing Tau. There are parts of Tau lore that really do reinforce a subliminal stereotyping of Japanese people and Japanese culture.

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Panzer
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#29 » Jun 29 2017 11:17

T'au don't really seperate Auxilliaries in roles though. They largely let Auxiliaries fight the way they are comfortable with and if it fits their battle plans, they 'use' them.
Since humans aren't exactly specialised in anything and more a jack of all trades (without being that good at melee but still not as bad as T'au), they'd use human auxiliaries simply wherever they don't want to deploy T'au forces. To hold a specific objective, to advance the battle lines, to scout out enemies. Wherever they are needed.

Back to the topic: because T'au would let human auxiliaries keep fighting the way they are used to mostly and wouldn't give them all the T'au technology just like that (or at all), it's kinda hard to actually represent them with T'au units.
I think the closest we could do is using the Kroot Datasheet for human auxiliaries since those have a similar armor, guns that are better than Lasguns but worse than Pulse Rifles (aka upgraded Lasguns) and can do at least a little bit in melee (the Kroot rifle melee profile can easily get explained as Bayonettes).
You could even use the Kroot Shaper Datasheet to represent a Comissar/Human leader X.

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Arka0415
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#30 » Jun 30 2017 01:52

Panzer wrote:T'au don't really seperate Auxilliaries in roles though. They largely let Auxiliaries fight the way they are comfortable with and if it fits their battle plans, they 'use' them.
Since humans aren't exactly specialised in anything and more a jack of all trades (without being that good at melee but still not as bad as T'au), they'd use human auxiliaries simply wherever they don't want to deploy T'au forces. To hold a specific objective, to advance the battle lines, to scout out enemies. Wherever they are needed.


They do their own thing, but that's separation. The Tau don't take Kroot and train them as line infantry, nor do they take Vespids and try to train them as Pathfinders or whatever. The auxiliaries have a distinct (and usually cultural/biological) role and the Tau let them do exactly that.

Panzer wrote:Back to the topic: because T'au would let human auxiliaries keep fighting the way they are used to mostly and wouldn't give them all the T'au technology just like that (or at all), it's kinda hard to actually represent them with T'au units.
I think the closest we could do is using the Kroot Datasheet for human auxiliaries since those have a similar armor, guns that are better than Lasguns but worse than Pulse Rifles (aka upgraded Lasguns) and can do at least a little bit in melee (the Kroot rifle melee profile can easily get explained as Bayonettes).
You could even use the Kroot Shaper Datasheet to represent a Comissar/Human leader X.


I definitely agree here- maybe Catachan-like humans (as opposed to Cadians) given the lower armor and higher melee capability. The Kroot WS3+/S4 is basically Space Marine-level hitting power though... maybe this can repesent that "0.2" strength that TauMan was talking about?

Anywa, Kroot Shaper for the cynical lieutenant who convinced his men to defect to the Tau Empire, Krootox for Heavy Weapons Teams with strangely good close-combat ability (shhh!) and Kroot Hounds as regular ol' dogs! :D

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Panzer
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#31 » Jun 30 2017 06:30

Arka0415 wrote:Krootox for Heavy Weapons Teams with strangely good close-combat ability (shhh!)

Or heavy weapon Ogryns who are strangely fast. :D

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Arka0415
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Re: Tau gue'vesa project

Post#32 » Jun 30 2017 06:37

Panzer wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:Krootox for Heavy Weapons Teams with strangely good close-combat ability (shhh!)

Or heavy weapon Ogryns who are strangely fast. :D


Aww yeah. Model an Ogryn down on all fours with a Cadian operating an Autocannon on his back. We ride!

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