Advise from any Tyranid players?

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Iasius
Shas
Posts: 31

Advise from any Tyranid players?

Post#1 » May 15 2014 12:16

Hey all, im building a Tyranid army list of 2,000 points. I don't have any specific opponents but i did collect a few years back (probably 4th edition). I would like the army to be at least semi competitive as ive never entered a tournament as such and i do have certain units that i would visually prefer to field.

Below is the army list taken from my Battlescribe app that ive edited to post here:



+++ Hive Fleet Kraken (2,000) (2000pts) +++
+++ 2000pt Tyranids: Codex (2014) v12 Roster (Primary Detachment)) +++

Selections:

Tyranids: Codex (2014) v12 (Primary Detachment) Selections:

+ HQ + (490pts)

* Hive Tyrant (265pts)
(Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature)
Hive Commander (20pts) (*), Powers of the Hive Mind, Psyker (Mastery Level 2) (Psyker), Regeneration (30pts), Scything Talons, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms (15pts), Wings (35pts)


* Tervigon (225pts)
(Brood Progenitor, Shadow in the Warp, Spawn Termagants, Synapse Creature, Synaptic Backlash)
Powers of the Hive Mind, Psyker (Mastery Level 1) (Psyker), Regeneration (30pts), Scything Talons, Stinger Salvo


+ Elites + (300pts)

* Haruspex (190pts)
(Fearless, Feeder-beast, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Rapacious Hunger)
Acid Blood, Crushing Claws, Grasping Tongue (Gulp!), Regeneration (30pts)


* Hive Guard Brood (110pts)
* Hive Guard (55pts)
(Instinctive Behaviour - Lurk, Very Bulky)
Impaler Cannon
* Hive Guard (55pts)
(Instinctive Behaviour - Lurk, Very Bulky)
Impaler Cannon


+ Troops + (470pts)

* Genestealer Brood (200pts)
* Broodlord (60pts)
(Bulky, Fleet, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover)
Psyker (Mastery Level 1) (Psyker), Rending Claws
* 10x Genestealer (140pts)
(Fleet, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover)
10x Rending Claws


* Hormagaunt Brood (100pts)
* 20x Hormagaunt (100pts)
(Bounding Leap, Fleet, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Move Through Cover)
20x Scything Talons


* Termagant Brood (40pts)
* 10x Fleshborer Termagant (40pts)
(Instinctive Behaviour - Lurk, Move Through Cover)
10x Fleshborer


* Termagant Brood (40pts)
* 10x Fleshborer Termagant (40pts)
(Instinctive Behaviour - Lurk, Move Through Cover)
10x Fleshborer


* Tyranid Warrior Brood (90pts)
* Tyranid Warrior (30pts)
(Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature, Very Bulky)
Devourer, Scything Talons
* Tyranid Warrior (30pts)
(Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature, Very Bulky)
Devourer, Scything Talons
* Tyranid Warrior (30pts)
(Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature, Very Bulky)
Devourer, Scything Talons


+ Fast Attack + (335pts)

* Gargoyle Brood (60pts)
* 10x Gargoyle (60pts)
(Instinctive Behaviour - Hunt)
10x Blinding Venom, 10x Fleshborer


* Hive Crone (185pts)
(Fearless, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Raking Strike)
Drool Cannon, Regeneration (30pts), Scything Talons, 4x Tentaclids


* Tyranid Shrike Brood (90pts)
* Tyranid Shrike (30pts)
(Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature, Very Bulky)
Devourer, Scything Talons
* Tyranid Shrike (30pts)
(Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature, Very Bulky)
Devourer, Scything Talons
* Tyranid Shrike (30pts)
(Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature, Very Bulky)
Devourer, Scything Talons


+ Heavy Support + (405pts)

* Carnifex Brood (175pts)
* Carnifex (175pts)
(Fearless, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Living Battering Ram)
Crushing Claws (15pts), Regeneration (30pts), Scything Talons, Thresher Scythe (10pts)


* Trygon Prime (230pts)
(Deep Strike, Fleet, Shadow in the Warp, Subterranean Assault, Synapse Creature)
Bio-electric Pulse with Containment Spines, 2x Scything Talons.





The strategy im currently fielding for is to have the Hive Tyrant move up one flank with the shrikes providing cover when in open ground. The Hive Crone will move up the opposite flank with the gargoyles providing a meat shield. With the faster moving elements on the flanks il have the Tervigon and Hive Guards together in the centre behind the front line, providing some firesupport and fresh termigants to replace the losses of the front line. The termigants and warriors will march up the centre with a focus on objectives and bullet soaking. Genestealers will infiltrate with the hormagaunts flanking from reserves depending on which side needs it thanks to the Hive Commander. The main punch will come from the Trygon prime punching a tunnel entrance behind enemy lines, to which the Carnifex and Haruspex will emerge in later turns to mess up any effective firing lines or to assault any big threats.


I would like to know what you guys think of this list and i hope ive posted in the right place. I get that this is largely a place for Tau discussion but im sure there will be Tyranid players somewhere in the darkness of our midst!
Am doing this off my mobile in an area of poor internet so my apologies if i missed something or take a while to respond. Many thanks!

User avatar
Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1097

Re: Advise from any Tyranid players?

Post#2 » May 15 2014 02:51

I don't play Nids, but my main opponent is.

Zoo are good for buffing background units and their invulnerable makes them resilient against long range weapons. Plus they don't need often LOS to cast powers so they can be totally hidden.

Genestealers remains a too heavy point investment for their efficiency. Hormagaunts are cheaper, and multiple small units of gaunts survives better than one pack of Stealers, specially when assaulting high shot volumes of overwatch.

Raveners are very good to flank/assault armies with their Beast status (lost many Skyrays and hammerhead against them)

Trygon Prime is a hell of a beast, but need to be properly deployed to avoid being shooted to death before he can assault.
You may need very good reserve rolls manipulation to have Carnifex and Haruspex coming after the Trygon... Too random for my taste.
On the contrary, for near the same cost of a Trygon', you can put 2x Mawlocs and their 2xS6AP2 Ignore Cover templates when they came from reserves (lost many broadsides/paladins against these guys)

Just some infos. Hope its helps.

PS: The topic may better fit in "Enemy Units & Alternate Systems" subforum

godoftheds
Shas
Posts: 2

Re: Advise from any Tyranid players?

Post#3 » May 15 2014 08:26

My primary army is nids so I'll give you my thoughts but first I'll note The Tyranid Hive is a very popular tyranids board where you'll probably get better help. Anyway onto your list:

Tyrant: I would throw a second set of devourers on him but otherwise fine
Haruspex: I have found these guys to generally be useless but if you really want him give him adrenal glands so he has fleet otherwise he won't be fast enough to get anywhere useful
genestealers: very hit or miss this edition. Remember if you go SECOND they can assault out of infiltrate but if you go first they cannot.
hormagaunts: I find the feed instinctive behavior to be too harsh for them to be worth taking
termagants: my favorite troop choice. Personally I prefer devourers on them but FB's work too
Warriors/shrikes: will be hit or miss depending on who you fight. If you're against missile spam they will drop like flies. I haven't used them much so I can't comment on your equipment
Gargoyles: I generally like my broods larger than 10. Once you get to like 15 or so you can use them to give cover to a large portion of your army.
Carnifex: tail biomorphs are fairly useless. Also he's going to suffer the same problem as the haruspex in that he will drop before he gets close enough. switching to devourers instead of a CC kit is going to help. Remember this is a CARNIFEX it does not need special equipment to grind anything into a pulp in close combat so give it come guns and let it do something on the way. Also again adrenal glands are a huge help

Unfortunately your strategy of having the fex and haruspex come through the hole will be purely luck based. Dudes can't come through the hole the same turn it appears so you'll be relying on succeeding your first reserve roll on the trygon AND failing the first fex and haruspex reserve roles. If they do come in the same turn they'll be walking from your edge which will make them nearly useless.

Also the flying monstrous creatures will quickly outpace anything there to give them cover.

hope that helps

User avatar
MrBushido
Shas'Saal
Posts: 43

Re: Advise from any Tyranid players?

Post#4 » May 15 2014 10:05

My other army is Tyranids, so I'll throw in my 2 cents.

-Hive Tyrant: Go with double brain leech devourers, it is totally worth it. You get 12 str 6 BS 4 twin linked shots, it's a shame not to take it.

-Tervigon: I prefer having this guy as a troops choice. A monstrous creature troop choice is quite lovely.

-Haruspex: Looks really cool and I really want him to work, but he is rather terrible. A Carnifex with dual brainleech devourers is better for a smaller cost. The Haruspex's special abilities kick in too late (at the end of the phase) and have too specific criteria for activating.

-Hive Guard: Some people are annoyed by the price hike and lose of 1 BS skill, but I like having the ignores cover on these guys, pretty fair trade off. Maybe invest in a third should you choose to drop the Haruspex.

-Genestealers are a bit lack luster at the moment. They may be able to pin one enemy unit with the broodlord though. Play these guys a bit cautiously to begin with.

-Hormagaunts: Keep these guys in synapse range and they serve as a quick tarpit unit.

-Termagants: They really do shine with devourers. Maybe lump the two squads together and upgrade 30% of them with devourers. Thats a new thin for nids: the ability to mix weapons in a brood. In doing so you can remove the cheaper gants as casualties and leave the better ones on the table until they get into firing range.

-Warrior Brood: Solid objective holding/backfield synapse unit. I would upgrade 1 in the brood to have a barbed strangler. For a small investment you get a large blast that can pin and allows them to contribute to the battle from a distance.

-Gargoyles: This brood is a tad small, but may be able to accomplish some tar pitting action.

-Hive Crone: Solid choice. I feel regen is a bit expensive though. If you drop the Harspex you could fit another Crone into the list in liue of the Carnifex. More bodies is more useful investment than regeneration in my opinion. If a person focus fires an MC in a turn, the regeneration can't kick in and you lose a unit. But having multiple units of the same type negates the issue.

-Shrikes: I would consider upgrading one of these guys with a lashwhip bonesword, or just field more warriors. Shrikes have the advantage of being fast, so I feel they should have punch when they reach CC. The way they are now is jump pack warriors with a worse armor save.

-Carnifex: The CC fex looks better as a model so if you have it that way I would proxy it as having dual brainleech devourers. It'll save you 25 pts but do significantly more damage in the long run. Your effective threat radius increases from CC to 24" (6" move plus 18" range). Makes him dangerous to AV 12 and under with weight of shots and the same goes for shooting at infantry.

-Trygon Prime: Another coo model that is lack luster this edition. Unfortunately you cannot send monstrous creatures through the tunnel. You can only send infantry. Furthermore sending a pure CC through the tunnel is not very useful. First it relies on reserves rolls and the Trygon must arrive first. Best case scenario Trygon arrives on turn 2, CC unit on turn 3, then they can assault on turn 4 (if the enemy hasn't moved too far away). So if the Trygon arrives a turn or turn later you can clearly see what will happen. I would only send a shooty or hybrid unit through the tunnel.

Hope any of that was helpful. Happy gaming!

-MrBushido

Iasius
Shas
Posts: 31

Re: Advise from any Tyranid players?

Post#5 » May 15 2014 11:42

Hey again, thanks or all the feedback! Really helpful! And thanks to whoever put this comment in the right place. Shame about the haruspex as it looks awesome as a model. Il repost when i get the chance!

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Mij'aan
Shas
Posts: 94

Re: Advise from any Tyranid players?

Post#6 » May 16 2014 04:49

I'll just throw a few things in, I know it might require you to get more models but I just wanna help you make a more effective list.

People dislike the stealers this edition and tend to underestimate their effectiveness. The first thing I would suggest is taking the smallest stealer squad you can, and taking the Brood Lord. Infiltrate them into a position that they can make sure of the Brood Lord's "The Horror" on turn one. Near a squad with a low leadership that poses a shooting threat. Suddenly this squad is now a bit more useless.
If you are ever to assault, assault from within cover - or your genestealers are dead.

A few more things i'd stress is that your squads of Termagants are too small. Aswell as the gargoyles (but I think that was already mentioned?)

If you can, take 30 of them and take the tervigon as a troop choice. That's two solid troop choices there. Let the tervigon camp a backfield objective and not advance other stuff.
Bring two of those flying hive tyrants with the big TL devourers. Add some Zoanthropes and Venomthropes Suddenly you've got yourself a threatening looking list. Venomthropes near 30 gants on an objective in cover usually makes them a hard unit to kill. (until someone comes along with a flamer)

Finally I would drop the trygon prime and go with a Mawloc - They are pretty good this edition.

abraxus
Shas
Posts: 298

Re: Advise from any Tyranid players?

Post#7 » May 16 2014 05:40

Even though this isn't a Tau list, please remove all individual point costs. Stating "Hive Tyrant" followed by the abilities, upgrades, and TOTAL cost is fine; but please edit your post and remove the points costs for each of individual upgrade.

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tripwire
Shas
Posts: 100
Contact:

Re: Advise from any Tyranid players?

Post#8 » Jul 09 2014 02:12

My main army is tyranids.

Have to agree with just about everything here. Flyrant with TL BLdevs is a MUST TAKE unit. Haruspex is a crying shame, as it's a cool model but plays like rubbish, and there's no reason not to take MORE TL BLdevs on the carnifexes! make them survivable by marching them up the field with a small group of termies or hormies in front of them, and a venomthrope behind, and the fexes will get a 3+ cover save in the open!

-trip

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Kilmor
Shas
Posts: 29

Re: Advise from any Tyranid players?

Post#9 » Jul 09 2014 02:23

Tyranids were/are my first/main army. Most has already been mentioned, you want to go shooting over cc on most options. The important change for the new codex is how scything talons work, where having one set do almost nothing for you. So either go full shooting or full cc, don't mix. Exception being warriors who can't shoot two guns so talons stay on.

PS. I highly recommend The Tyranid Hive forum, its a good resource for tyranid players.

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jade_angel
Shas
Posts: 185

Re: Advise from any Tyranid players?

Post#10 » Jul 10 2014 03:07

I don't play 'nids, but my main opponent does, and I've played against enough lists to have a pretty good idea how they work.

For your HQs, I'd lose the Tervigon. In 5th, they were practically a must-have, and the ability to have a scoring monstrous creature in 6th was quite valuable, but in 7th, it almost doesn't matter. Objective Secured is nice, but you hardly need it to win, and if you're scoring with MCs, there are better options than a Tervigon. For example, a second Flyrant. I'd set up both with two brainleech devourers, though - you want the dakka, trust me. That much on a flying MC platform with a vector strike and maybe psychic shooting is really scary to anything that's not T8 or AV13, and you have enough weight of fire to even hurt the various T8 critters. Plus, with Smash, you don't need the scything talons to be effective in melee. It's not as good as a lashwhip/bonesword combo, but Hive Tyrants are terrifying melee engines even without it. You can forego Hive Commander on the second Flyrant if you want, and I'd probably pass on Regeneration.

I want to like the Haruspex, too, but I've only taken serious damage from one in a single game. Admittedly, I play Tau and Eldar, and both are scary opponents for Tyranids, but the 'spex is just a wee bit lackluster. It eats tanks for lunch, but so do Carnifexes. Lose it, and add a third Hive Guard. Also, while you're looking at Elites - Venomthropes! You want them, if you ever see shooty opponents with good AP (like Tau, or Eldar!). Two singletons, or maybe even two pair. You want two singletons rather than a brood of two so you can space them widely, covering more of your army, and not lose both to one unlucky large volley.

For your troops: I can't complain too much but I have some pointers. Genestealers are better than the general opinion says, I think, except against scary-fast melee units (Dark Eldar, some Daemons). But, it's all dependent on where you can infiltrate them. If you're going first, they stink except as a dangerous decoy. Hormagaunts work well, in my experience. That brood you've got isn't bad, though you could probably use toxin sacs if you expect to see much T5+, but make sure to keep 'em in synapse. But, with two Flyrants, a squad of Warriors and a squad of Shrikes, you should be good.

Termagants - not bad, not bad at all. I like the squads a little bigger, but that's not bad. Devourers are pricey but nice, however, don't rule out the good old spinefist. It looks sucky, but the fact that it's twin-linked is surprisingly handy, especially in larger broods. Maybe if you can spare the points, do two broods of 20, one with 5x devourer and 15x fleshborer, the other with 5x devourer and 15x spinefist. Spike rifles, of course, are a total waste of time.

Warriors - Good, though a barbed strangler would help and it's hard to go wrong with rending claws.

I'd drop the Regen on the Crone. Chances are the Crone will either be focused down in one turn or will hang around mostly unmolested all game, regardless. Also, there's nothing quite so frustrating as having it grounded by a volley of Smart Missiles from a Riptide, and then one-shotted by a Hammerhead or a Wraithknight. (Though, admittedly, the changes to grounding in 7th make this much less of a threat.)

Shrikes are hard to go wrong with, though I like giving at least one a lashwhip+bonesword and rending claws for the rest. Don't forget, on the turn you plan to charge, don't use the jump move so that you get your Hammer of Wrath attacks. May not seem like much, but every attack adds up. Also, while you'd have to take two combined arms detachments to do it, Raveners are *very* nasty, and Shrikes team up very well with them. Move the two together, then fork off at the last minute and hit separate targets, if there are several. If not, dive in and rip apart a large squad with reckless abandon. Deathspitters are mostly a waste of points, though, so if you take Raveners, give 'em spinefists. (Devourers are OK, but spinefists get the same number of shots on a Ravener, get some AP, and are twin-linked. The extra strength isn't worth much.)

I'll second everyone else's recommendations on the 'fexes - lose the tail and the regen, pick up the dakka. Take two in a brood, give one 2x devourers, the other devs and crushing claws, if you expect to see a lot of AV14. Otherwise, go dakka all the way, and Smash if you really need to.

One unit you might consider is the Exocrine. Don't worry too much about the rather lackluster blast mode, instead, focus on the streams attack. That's your tool for bringing down the big, tough units in shooting (like Riptides). If you rely on assault to kill them - and an opponent figures that out - he can easily kite you all over the board, doing massive damage along the way, so bring along an AP2 shooting threat.

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