[Alternate Systems] Warmachine & Hordes

A Forum to discuss models of the Tau's Enemies, including Alternate Wargame Systems.
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taco
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[Alternate Systems] Warmachine & Hordes

Post#1 » Apr 07 2008 06:17

Hey all

I just found a new (at least to me) table top game, warmachine & hordes. both have excellent metal models, with what seems to be zero flash & no mold lines. check out http://www.privateerpress.com for some pics of these beautys.

Personally the warjacks for the khador in warmachine look amazing, these buggers look like they would tear through a carnifex as though it were made of cookie dough, plus they have a cool old-school-communist-russian look :biggrin:

I just wanted to know if anyone has any experience with this gaming system & what they rate of it. the guys at my local store rated it to be a lot simpler that warhammer 40 000.

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Fraggle
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Post#2 » Apr 07 2008 06:43

I was thinking of getting into Warmachine, with either the Cryx or Khador. I love those Widowmakers... Haven't played a game yet, but it looks like you need a lot less models than 40K, which means, in theory, you can spend more time painting them, and do a better job. I've got a starter gameplanned in a week or so, so I'll let you know how it turns out, and what I think.

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Post#3 » Apr 07 2008 07:04

They're great games, totally different from any of the GW games. The games are fast paced and deadly, as while everything can cause a lot of damage, fewer things can take much (Khador being something that can). You have a lot more ways of doing things, with a lot more special abilities and spells, and the feats can turn the game on its head very quickly. One of the things I really like is that you can be completely dominating the game, but if you slip up for a second, you can lose from a very strong position. Games are very rarely over until they are over, you really have to stay switched on.

However don't be fooled into thinking it is simple, or that the rules and minis are perfect. They're not. The rules can be complex and slow the game down until you know them well, as well as the fact that they are constantly being FAQd, changed and clarified (although these are all freely downloadable from the official site).

Warmachine also suffers from the fact that Jacks--my favourite part of the game--aren't very competitive. You can do alright with them, but you're often better off without them (aside from some of the little ones). That's why I like Hordes better, as you *have* to take the big warbeasts, it's how your Warlocks (your most important model) get their power. This is almost opposite of Warmachine, where your jacks get their power from the Warcaster.

The minis also suffer from flash and mold lines as bad as GW, but can be even harder to assemble. And everything is metal.

But don't let me put you off, it's a great system and I highly recommend it, but don't let anyone convince you that it doesn't have the flaws that GW games have.
O-B

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taco
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Post#4 » Apr 08 2008 07:02

lol

thanks orange-bell, you just made me afraid of picking up warmachine, but awesome russian communists win, so i'll still have to buy the models. i don't think i'll rely on too many lil troopers, the jacks are just too cool.

can't wait to hear from Fraggie about the game, so keep me informed

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Ray
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Post#5 » Apr 08 2008 07:24

I've gotten into warmachine by playing Cygnar. I already had the blue paints so I figured I would save some money. On top of that, I like how most of their models are specialists and have at least one or two tricks (Gun mages can fry a Jack's cortex or push models backward).

As far as price goes, I purchased The starting box at $50 and a box of gun mages at $24. Compared to a box of 6 vespid, I'm saving a great deal of money in the long run. My list which will take me to 500 points (a very common point cost) will cose roughly $150, of which I only have $80 worth left to get. After that, I wont really need to buy anything else.

Also, the starters box ($50) for the army is instantly playable (and contains around 350 points of models). Compare that to many battleforce boxes which cost $150, don't provide a commander nor the simplified ruleset.
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Post#6 » Apr 08 2008 07:51

Yep, it is a pretty cheap game if you get it from the right places (ie it's stupidly expensive if you buy it retail in Australia).
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But anyway, the reason I felt compelled to point out the flaws is that there are too many people that think it's a perfect system because it's not GW. And simply not being GW does not something perfect, and I know people who got into it after listening to too many GW-bashes, and then were disappointed by similar flaws within Warmachine/Hordes. You should play a game on its merits (which are very meritorious), not because it's not something else. :)

I've got a game tomorrow night, i'm looking forward to it.
O-B

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Post#7 » Apr 08 2008 08:01

Hey, O-B! Think you can get us a battle report of tomorrow's game?

It seems that a few people around are interested in the game, so a battle report might help them making up their minds.

Plus I'm so frikkin' curious to see how that game plays! :P
I am the poster formerly known as Omega2.

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bahbee
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Post#8 » Apr 08 2008 08:29

Omega2 wrote:Hey, O-B! Think you can get us a battle report of tomorrow's game?

It seems that a few people around are interested in the game, so a battle report might help them making up their minds.


I double that.

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Post#9 » Apr 08 2008 08:34

Ok, i'll give it a shot, though we might be having a 3-way game so it might throw it out a bit.
O-B

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taco
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Post#10 » Apr 09 2008 03:17

thats alright O-B, it seems we just want to know how kewl it is.

the main thing is to hear about all these abilities & how easy it is to pick up. i was reading a bit about the abilities, & they seem insane, buffs & knockdowns, all i can thought when i read them was "SAY WHAT?"

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Post#11 » Apr 09 2008 03:37

I thought about getting into it, but a little reading and it seemed like it was a bit too much like a CCG, mainly about finding killer combos. The miniatures are sweet though. If I would play a nurgle army I would use the big bile thrall as something, not sure what but that demon looks so delightfully disgusting.
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kai'lore
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Post#12 » Apr 09 2008 04:12

last I heard from Ryozuken, you know, before he left here in a huff with Soji :P was that he was contemplating starting a Warmachine Forum. It did seemed to be fueled a little by the "I can't believe it's not GW" but then again, I might not have been paying attention enough or there wasn't enough info.

If you guys want to talk about it here, I have no problems with it. We started with Tau but if enough of us are knowledgeable about other games then I see no reason not too. We have no obligation to GW as far as I can tell...?

P.S. Come back Ryo!
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Ray
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Post#13 » Apr 09 2008 08:25

Ryo and Soji left? I'm not reading the boards enough (could be a good thing with school :P)

The abilities are pretty sweet, but it isn't all about killer combos. There is no combination in the game that will instantly let you win unless your opponent has done something surprisingly foolish. If anything, it is focused on synnergy. Getting two or more units to work to each other's strengths is what it is all about. As far as being a CCG goes, the cards are just like codex entries except in a different format. The card comes with the model and you have access to the stats before buying the model by referring to the rulebook or its expansions.

A note on the rules, though. They are ridiculously intricate. Not only can a warjack charge, but there are a series of warjack related moves such as armlocks, headlocks, throws (and two handed throws where applicable), slams, and even the warjack's own set of special abilities. This is a game that is easy to learn, hard to get good at but very rewarding in the end. Much like 40k, in many respects.

I support the idea of an ATT, warmachine thread/forum simply because of the level of quality (and the ability to read posts before writing!) that is produced on a daily basis by the members here. The privateer press forums seem to give responses like, "Take Jr. He's good." without going into detail as to why. I've never seen an instance like that happen at ATT and it is this quality assurance/control that brings me back here all the time.
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Post#14 » Apr 09 2008 01:04

Here was a small battle i put up awhile back. It was like 350pts.

http://advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?t=5455&highlight=warmachine
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RevRanDoM
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Post#15 » Apr 09 2008 03:20

I play both 40K and Warmachine (Khador) and I love both games for different reasons. Here are my impressions about 40K vs. Warmachine (in no particular order)...

Just like OB said, Warmachine minis have problems too. I've still had to do gap filling with green stuff and trim and file mold lines and flash. Also, I've had two time now where I've purchased a jack and found that it was missing a piece. That said, the customer service people at Privateer Press fixed those problems fast and free. The minis are all metal which is nice because I've had to weight down some of my plastic 40K minis, but quality wise, I say both games are on equal footing.

On game rules, both are about the same as far as complexity goes, but perhaps Privateer Press does a better job FAQing their game than GW does. Privateer Press also has a really good bulletin board for getting questions answered and the people there are pretty decent posters (not the same quality as here, but for a large board, there aren't too many annoying posters.

Focus of the game for 40K seems more shooting based, whereas Warmachine is more close combat based (e.g. Khador has one of the longest range guns in the game coming in at a whopping 14"). 40K seems more defensive minded (especially if you're a Tau player) where as Warmachine is more offensively minded (almost without exception, the game gives the advantage to he who gets the first swing in, so your tactical decision is usually one of "I can protect my self better during my opponents turn by attacking him now and weakening him rather than waiting to absorb his charge").

Cost: Both games are expensive. The $50 battle box for Warmachine is a great way to get started, but if you want to play games in the 750-1000 points range, be prepared to plunk down a few hundred bucks (e.g. Khador jacks will run you roughly $20-50 a pop). As with 40K, ebay is your friend.

When I play 40K, I feel more like a general commanding troops, whereas with Warmachine, I feel more like a gang leader in a brawl. Perhaps the reason I like both is because the Tau/Khador strenghts/weaknesses contrast each other so well. When I want to play a long-distance, surgical-strike type game, I go for Tau, when I want to charge into the guns and watch the shells bounce off of my massively think armor while I pound enemies into silly putty, I go for Khador. By playing both games, I don't feel like I'm locked into any one type of playing style (shooting vs hand to hand).

Hope this helps. :)

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Post#16 » Apr 09 2008 03:55

I love cgynar...most of their jacks have ranged weapons which i like, and then once you start using the troops special abilities like: Using the smoke wall technique...hahaha, i love that one.

I don't think it is as expensive as 40k...I mean, they come out with a new rulebook every-so-often, but all the armies are usually in that "one" book...no buying 50 Codexes...

Just my opinion... ;)
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Post#17 » Apr 09 2008 04:03

Oh yeah...this might help some people:

http://www.engineeringcalculator.net/ArmyBuilder.html
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Post#18 » Apr 10 2008 12:12

Here are all the links that i have for Warmachine...

http://www.privateerpress.com/ The main manufactureer's site

http://www.warmachine.org.uk/index.php?page=Welcome British fansite

http://warseer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=29 Some tactics/ideas

http://coolminiornot.com/browse Go to this one and filter by Manufacturer, Privateer Press to see some painting/modeling ideas

http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/ This one gives a lot of tactics/ideas


That is about all i have right now...
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