Heavy Retribution Cadre VS a bucket of Shrimp (Nec Phantoms)

Battle Reports and debriefing thoughts about your Tau in action
Kadegar
Shas
Posts: 9

Heavy Retribution Cadre VS a bucket of Shrimp (Nec Phantoms)

Post#1 » Jan 25 2016 02:19

Last Weekend I made a tournament preparation Game against a Necron Decurion Kontingent with three Canoptek Harvest. 18 Phantoms, 15 Scraps, 3 Spiders, minimal base contingent with Command Barge.
My list can be found here
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=24261

Well, practice time is over and at least I can say that I have learned my lesson. Necrons won after 5 rounds, 13 to 7.
I got the first round but necrons managed to seize the initiative thanks to a lucky warlord table role with a 5, horray.
My hardest decision was what would be my prime target. I choosed the command barke, marked it with four marker drones, fired two D missles and turned his warlord into dust. A spark of hoped enlighten me but just for a brief moment. After this small victory I made the wrong choice. What should I kill first? Spiders or phantoms? I choosed the phantoms, cause I wanted to slow them down with the heavy retribution special rule. Well, wrong decision. I killed 4 Phantoms. I expected that they will charge my Stormsurges in their second turn, but well, bubble wraping with marker drones, attack drones, kroot and Fire warrior went better than expected. Sadly I rolled a double one for my Riptide so he failed to jump away. Free food for Phantoms.
His Secound turn went better as expected. Necron warriors fired a hole in my Krootwall and four Phantoms charged into my Ghostkeel. Six Phantoms charged my Riptide and his third Unit of Shrimps failed their charge, thanks to halved charge range. Neither my Riptide nor my ghostkeel lost a single Wound, we both were really surprised.
My Second turn, revenge of the Surges! … just in my dreams.
With my double Surge firepower, 5 D Missles, 10 marker hits, I only managed to reduce the only Phantom Unit that was not bound in meele to one Phantom with one remaining Hitpoint. To Avoid a single phantom, that could taunt counterfire I charged it with my commander, six marker drones and four attack drones. And well, the phantom won, killed one marker drone and my two teams of each two attack drones ran away. Luckily my ghostkeel was still unharmed by the four phantoms. Not so lucky was my riptide. Unlinke the last round, his reactor failed to give him his 3++ save and the phantoms scratched him to death.
His Third turn.
Spiders and Scarabs got closer, but not close enough to charge my Surges, he also changed the canoptek special rule from reanimation protocol to shred. Sadly I made a small deployment mistake. His Phantoms found a small hole to charge one of my surges, so with a multi Charge, targeting my Surge, he could jump over my drones and managed to get base contact with the Surge. Ghostkeel got charged by Scarabs and got shred into pieces.
My third turn.
Piranhas stoped to bring more Drones into combat and were used to block more Enemies. My remaining not bound Surge tried to kill a spider, also with no success. The bound Surge retreated his anchors and stomped two shrimps surprisingly to death, commander managed to kill the phantom in close combat.
His forth Turn
Not much to tell about.
Commander got shred by scarabs. Second Surge charged by Spider and scarabs. First Surge stomped an additional shrimp in the ground.
The remaining Combat is easily to describe.
I lost everything exept my Surges, even shreading Phantoms and Scarabs had problems to bring them down. After my fifth round one Surge was still stomping on mecha bugs and two piranhas crashed on the ground due to failed terrain test. Thankfully the dice ended the game after that round.


What I have learned from this game.
- First Round is very important again a phantom wing.
- Always kill the Spiders first.
- Keep a better eye on small holes in your bubble wrap. These Phantoms can fill every hole!
- Even if the Ghostkeel doesn’t make much damage. His Sync bubble is very important!
- One can never have enough marker lights with this list.

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Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1041

Re: Heavy Retribution Cadre VS a bucket of Shrimp (Nec Phantoms)

Post#2 » Jan 25 2016 07:57

I had (and still may have) hard times against wraiths and their Harvest friends.

Seeing your list, you may struggle against them.
Inv save on wraiths and low save of scarabs means good AP doesn't matter. Keep some FB to kill the Barge.
Volume of high S weapons do: HYMP, Missiles, HBC, Ionhead, even firewarrior pulse rifles.
Then the armour shredding feature of scarabs are too dangerous for our MC and 2+ save battlesuits.
Two Stormsurges means that you lacks mobility teams to grab objectives, split fire, ... And the +1 BS is only when you have a 3-suit team (but I don't recall if the storsurges have fireteam, so you may ignore that last point if not).

What a Canoptek (and most lists) lacks is good anti-air abilities. A Razorshark bring 4 to 6 S7 shots on turrets, or a S8 pieplate that hurst scarabs, plus 2 S8 shots to damage the barge. A Razorshark is a little expensive, but against some lists AA-weak, it can flies relatively unharmed (and force potential targets to hide).
Against Necrons, the Razors are nice with their S8AP4 pieplates that can blast warriors team clean.

GeorgeJetson
Shas
Posts: 139

Re: Heavy Retribution Cadre VS a bucket of Shrimp (Nec Phantoms)

Post#3 » Jan 25 2016 12:59

Kael'yn,

Actually, I would say that a 3-suit list of Stormsurges would be exactly what the doctor ordered against this type of list-- more so than a heavy retribution cadre. Run a Hunter or Dawnblade contingent (cadre) with 3 storm surges as the heavy support choice (DBC would be good, because you'd get re-rolls against a designated target each shooting phase). GMCs don't need split fire, they can target each weapon at a different target should they so choose. One SS can put out as much S5 AP5 as one to two squads of FW, some of it is ignores cover even without ML support. Also, taking the Shield Gen might be the way to go, as it's not an armor save. Even though the PBC doesn't have the range that the PDC does, you get S9 pie-plates twice per shooting phase without anchors, also, as GMCs they can move 12" and still fire everything in the same turn. Also the 10" profile ensures that anything that gets close enough (Necrons are pretty short range compared to Tau shooting) to really hurt it is taken care of almost instantly. Stacking the fact that with Shield Generators they get 3+, 4++, 5++ T6 and 8 wounds each, they will require a lot of fire to take down.

I find that the storm surge is a much more aggressive tool than what most Tau players are used to, this isn't something you hide or try to camp with, you keep it moving, use its stomp attacks against weakened infantry units that you just made suck pulse and missile fire in your shooting phase. They're going to be a fire magnet, that's what they're there for, just keep blasting away, if one or two get killed, you still have another and have hopefully eaten away enough of the enemy's major firepower. It's a sledgehammer unit.

Shaper Weee
Shas
Posts: 36

Re: Heavy Retribution Cadre VS a bucket of Shrimp (Nec Phantoms)

Post#4 » Jan 26 2016 01:59

I like you list, I think you did very well and would of learnt a lot. I am a enclave player but I am going to look at making a list around your the SS formation.

Thank you for shearing with us you battle report.

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Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1041

Re: Heavy Retribution Cadre VS a bucket of Shrimp (Nec Phantoms)

Post#5 » Jan 26 2016 05:03

GeorgeJetson wrote:Actually, I would say that a 3-suit list of Stormsurges would be exactly what the doctor ordered against this type of list--

Stormsurges are good, resilient and may be very aggressive (Missilesides, hammerheads, ... too, if one build a strategy around that), but the problem with so many eggs in one basket is that the strategy relies on the survival of each to be effective globally. Once one is taken down, or unable to fire, the firepower is serioulsy downed (other GC or SHW can make also the day difficult).
On some tables with high terrain density (like the ones I usually plays, with 1/6 to 1/4 of surfaces with terrains, which at least 50% are LOS blockers), this team may have too difficult times to shoot before assaulted and maybe move correctly the 3-model team.

Like the end of Kadegar fight tells, only the SSs on table, unable to grab objectives and maybe unable to fire to grab other VP if the enemy units hides outside LOS.
Round 6 and 7 if played will have let Necrons to move relatively free and enhancing their score more.
Imagine if a C'tan or Ascended would have been selected, ripping the SSs with S:D attacks...

Kadegar
Shas
Posts: 9

Re: Heavy Retribution Cadre VS a bucket of Shrimp (Nec Phantoms)

Post#6 » Jan 26 2016 05:33

First of all, thanks for the response.
This Match was not intended to be an anti-Phantom spam battle. It was actually a tournament preparation Match for a local tournament in March.
If this match would’ve last one more round, my whole army would’ve been wiped out.
To optimize against the list of my enemy, I don’t think, that another Stormsurge would be a good solution. With the intention to bring three of them in one unit, I can’t play a heavy retribution Cadre with 1850 points and the cadre special rules were very effective in this match.
To increase my victory chance i would exchange the remaining Strike Team with Kroots, Drop the Iridium Armor for more Points and maybe squeeze one or two double Flamer Krisis into this list.
Maybe playing the CAD with Farsight Enclave could be a solution to gain objective secured Krisis to force a VP victory by claiming objectives on his side of the table. The problem with this solution is that I will lose some bubblewrap for my Surges.

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