3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Dark Angels

Battle Reports and debriefing thoughts about your Tau in action
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Ghostly Daemon
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3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Dark Angels

Post#1 » Sep 28 2017 06:59

So last night I faced off against Ultramarines and Dark Angels with my Chaos ally. The game was extremely tough - the deployment was short edge of the table, twist was Grudge Match (so no morale tests, woop!) and the game was The Prize (grab the objective in the centre and hold/run with it).

We lost pretty hard, but the lists we faced were particularly cheesy and I can't say it was a terribly enjoyable game.

Chaos fielded a Knight, Plaguebearers, Cultists, Sorcerer, Herald and a Storm Raven. Ultramarines fielded 2 Venerable Dreads, 2 Predators, 2 Devastator squads and Guilliman. Dark Angels fielded a Crusader Landraider, some form of close combat troops with Chainswords, Azreal (in his Dark Shroud thing I think?) and 2 Flyers equipped with Lazcannons and Missiles.

My list was as follows:
Spoiler!
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x Burst Cannons, 2x Seeker Missiles (205)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (67)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (67)
Troops - 8x Breachers w/ Markerlight (67)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Fusion Blasters, 2x Flamers, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - Riptide w/ Heavy Burst Cannon, 2x SMS, Target Lock, ATS (324)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 1500 - Command Points: 6 (1 Battalion Detachment)


They got first turn and the Knight was destroyed immediately and my Riptide was taken down to 4 Wounds, so was essentially crippled straight away. I think we may have been cheated out of it, as a troop unit grabbed the objective and then took it straight into the Landraider (which incidentally had a 4+ invun and -1 to hit it), which I didn't think you could do, but regardless we continued.

A squad of Cultists, Breachers & Crisis Suits managed to take down Guilliman for the first time, but he then came back up at 5 wounds. My Commander then managed to finish him off again after some more shots from Cultists and 2 Strike teams.

Honestly, once the objective was in the Landraider, we felt like we couldn't win as pretty much all of our heavy hitters were destroyed. Even my Crisis suits were killed immediately from the Predators, Dreads and Devastator squads. Shield Drones did their thing, but there's only so many shots they can take unfortunately.

The -1 to hit everything in the 6" bubble was horrible, hitting on 5's for most things pretty much killed my effectiveness, especially when you factor in a crippled Riptide. The Riptide did manage to take out a few Devastators, but only because it went down to 2 Wounds and they didn't pay much attention to it after that point. The Storm Raven and Sun Shark got killed in the second round as well, so they didn't even get a chance to effect much of the game.

Overall, it wasn't a great game in my opinion. Facing those levels of cheese wasn't particularly enjoyable and we felt like we'd already lost by the end of the second round. But hey, at least we killed Girlyman twice!
Last edited by Ghostly Daemon on Sep 28 2017 09:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Yojimbob
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Re: 3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Grey Knights

Post#2 » Sep 28 2017 09:22

I thought Azreal was a Dark Angels special character and his buff only affects Dark Angels chapter. Maybe I'm wrong on this but I think you guys got screwed. Super friends type crap doesn't really work anymore.

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Ghostly Daemon
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Re: 3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Grey Knights

Post#3 » Sep 28 2017 09:47

Yojimbob wrote:I thought Azreal was a Dark Angels special character and his buff only affects Dark Angels chapter. Maybe I'm wrong on this but I think you guys got screwed. Super friends type crap doesn't really work anymore.


You're totally right, got it mixed up, was Dark Angels.

Either way, it was a pretty terrible game in the end and I didn't enjoy it!
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Glarblar
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Re: 3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Grey Knights

Post#4 » Sep 28 2017 09:51

I agree with yojimbob, there was definitely some funny business going on:

Azreal is a Dark Angels character and can not therefore buff Ultramarines.
Nor can Gulliman buff the Dark angels (to my knowledge).
And if 'The Prize' is anything like the Eternal War mission 'The Relic' there are 2 stipulations for the model: that it cannot move more than 9" in a single phase, and that it cannot embark on a transport.

Their lists are very strange...

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Yojimbob
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Re: 3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Grey Knights

Post#5 » Sep 28 2017 09:58

Glarblar wrote:I agree with yojimbob, there was definitely some funny business going on:

Azreal is a Dark Angels character and can not therefore buff Ultramarines.
Nor can Gulliman buff the Dark angels (to my knowledge).
And if 'The Prize' is anything like the Eternal War mission 'The Relic' there are 2 stipulations for the model: that it cannot move more than 9" in a single phase, and that it cannot embark on a transport.

Their lists are very strange...


Yeah, sounded like the Relic A LOT but I assume there should have been some restrictions like that. Seems extremely fishy. And yes, your opponent probably had a pair of Nephalim jet fighters which are super cool now that they don't run out of missiles. Unlike our poor Skyray. But your game is a reflection of the fact that SM of any form is kinda dumb right now since their lascannons are cheap and plentiful. One of many reasons why you see commander/drone spam because it makes all that garbage less effective.

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Ghostly Daemon
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Re: 3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Grey Knights

Post#6 » Sep 28 2017 10:03

Glarblar wrote:I agree with yojimbob, there was definitely some funny business going on:

Azreal is a Dark Angels character and can not therefore buff Ultramarines.
Nor can Gulliman buff the Dark angels (to my knowledge).
And if 'The Prize' is anything like the Eternal War mission 'The Relic' there are 2 stipulations for the model: that it cannot move more than 9" in a single phase, and that it cannot embark on a transport.

Their lists are very strange...


Oh really? Because he was buffing a bunch of Ultramarines last night with his -1 to hit and Girlyman was giving all the Dark Angels models reroll wounds and hits I believe? I might have to put that to them then and see what they say...

Yojimbob wrote:Yeah, sounded like the Relic A LOT but I assume there should have been some restrictions like that. Seems extremely fishy. And yes, your opponent probably had a pair of Nephalim jet fighters which are super cool now that they don't run out of missiles. Unlike our poor Skyray. But your game is a reflection of the fact that SM of any form is kinda dumb right now since their lascannons are cheap and plentiful. One of many reasons why you see commander/drone spam because it makes all that garbage less effective.


I think it was similar to the Relic mission, but I didn't really get a great look at the card beforehand and I don't actually own them, so I can't check. Either way, I'm sure it said The Prize on the card.

I was fully expecting Lascannon spam honestly, but it was pretty horrendous to play against and completely unfun. When I was posting my list suggestions for this game, I said that 99% of our gaming group prefer narrative and fluff to cheese except for this one guy and his friend, so I guess I should've expected it, but even so!
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Glarblar
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Re: 3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Dark Angels

Post#7 » Sep 28 2017 10:21

Ya, usually in the special rules it will have keywords.
equivalents would be "Imperium" to "T'au empire", and "Dark Angels" or "Ultramarines" to "T'au" and "farsight enclaves"

Then you get different interactions like how Drones from <Tau> sept can't take Savior protocols from an infantry or battlesuit from <Farsight> sept. Or Ethereals buff "T'au Empire" and are not limited to just septs.

Its confusing, so if they were getting it wrong it may or may not have been intentional
Last edited by Glarblar on Sep 28 2017 10:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Yojimbob
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Re: 3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Dark Angels

Post#8 » Sep 28 2017 10:21

Yup, the buffs specifically say now that they only affect certain models. I'd double check and make sure Rowboat doesn't buff more than ultrasmurfs but I'm fairly confident he doesn't. I know for sure Azreal wouldn't confer his garbage to anyone other than DA. You guys got hosed for sure.

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Arka0415
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Re: 3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Dark Angels

Post#9 » Sep 28 2017 07:21

Sounds like a lousy game, sorry you had to go through that. Think back about the game- did your opponents pay attention to the following rules?

1. The Relic cannot embark on a Transport.
2. The Darkshroud can only buff Dark Angels models.
3. Azrael can only buff Dark Angels models.
4. Guilliman allows only Ultramarines models to re-roll hits and wounds.
5. Guilliman allows Imperium units to add 1" to their charges and re-roll hit rolls of 1.

Also, here are a few things when playing against that kind of list:

1. Don't shoot Guilliman at first. He's hard to kill and, really, his real benefit is the buff bubble. Just shoot whatever's in that buff bubble and you'll do well.
2. Focus the Darkshroud. Every shot you put into something near the Darkshroud before the Darkshroud dies is firepower wasted, sadly.
3. As a shooty army, shoot them off the Relic but don't run in and claim it for yourself until it's safer to go.

Anyway, sounds like your buddy is a powergamer to the point of having, well, a really selective memory...

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Ghostly Daemon
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Re: 3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Dark Angels

Post#10 » Sep 29 2017 04:22

Arka0415 wrote:Sounds like a lousy game, sorry you had to go through that. Think back about the game- did your opponents pay attention to the following rules?

1. The Relic cannot embark on a Transport.
2. The Darkshroud can only buff Dark Angels models.
3. Azrael can only buff Dark Angels models.
4. Guilliman allows only Ultramarines models to re-roll hits and wounds.
5. Guilliman allows Imperium units to add 1" to their charges and re-roll hit rolls of 1.


Honestly, they didn't pay attention to any of them rules whatsoever. They claimed Darkshroud's, Azrael's and Guilliman's buffs applied to everyone in their force, so nice to know I can at least ignore the loss we had. I'll make sure to remind them when/if we play them next.

Arka0415 wrote:Also, here are a few things when playing against that kind of list:

1. Don't shoot Guilliman at first. He's hard to kill and, really, his real benefit is the buff bubble. Just shoot whatever's in that buff bubble and you'll do well.
2. Focus the Darkshroud. Every shot you put into something near the Darkshroud before the Darkshroud dies is firepower wasted, sadly.
3. As a shooty army, shoot them off the Relic but don't run in and claim it for yourself until it's safer to go.

Anyway, sounds like your buddy is a powergamer to the point of having, well, a really selective memory...


Originally we didn't plan on doing, but by the time they'd taken the relic, we had no chance so we just hunted him for sport :evil:

Next time (if there is a next time that is), I'll definitely put firepower straight into the Darkshroud before anything else. I think the problem last time was that directly behind it were 2 Venerable Dreads, 2 Predators and 2 Devastator squads, so I didn't want to risk my Crisis Suits on it. Thinking back, I'm sure Longstrike had the range to do something about it, but you live and learn!
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Arka0415
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Re: 3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Dark Angels

Post#11 » Sep 29 2017 04:44

Ghostly Daemon wrote:Honestly, they didn't pay attention to any of them rules whatsoever. They claimed Darkshroud's, Azrael's and Guilliman's buffs applied to everyone in their force, so nice to know I can at least ignore the loss we had. I'll make sure to remind them when/if we play them next.

I don't want to 'project' on your opponent but there's guys like that at all of our local tables I think. Oh well. Do remind them the next time, and it might be good to skim the Space Marine index when you have the chance- plenty of other units in there whose rules can be twisted to make cheesy-yet-illegal combinations...

Arka0415 wrote:Also, here are a few things when playing against that kind of list:

1. Don't shoot Guilliman at first. He's hard to kill and, really, his real benefit is the buff bubble. Just shoot whatever's in that buff bubble and you'll do well.
2. Focus the Darkshroud. Every shot you put into something near the Darkshroud before the Darkshroud dies is firepower wasted, sadly.
3. As a shooty army, shoot them off the Relic but don't run in and claim it for yourself until it's safer to go.

Anyway, sounds like your buddy is a powergamer to the point of having, well, a really selective memory...


Ghostly Daemon wrote:Originally we didn't plan on doing, but by the time they'd taken the relic, we had no chance so we just hunted him for sport :evil:

That's the spirit! Glad you had fun there :D

fraction64
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Re: 3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Dark Angels

Post#12 » Oct 02 2017 05:09

So they definitely got it wrong with the various buffs.
Also what was the troop unit that grabbed the objective? Were they Ultramarines or Dark Angels? If they were ultramarines and the LR was dark angels then they couldn't have gotten into it.

Now as for the prize it is from the open war cards so the rules for it are different than the relic.
The relic has plenty of sensible restrictions that make the game type relatively fair, the prize does not. There are no restrictions for the prize. Any type of model can pick it up and move as far as they like in any way that they like. Has to be a pretty casual game for that mission type to be fun.

Was surprised to hear you were able to even fire at Guilliman as he is a character under 10 wounds and most people put plenty of units in the way to prevent him from ever getting shot at.
Oh yeah and azreal can't be in a darkshroud to my knowledge. Now he does have a re-roll failed hits aura of his own so that might have been part of what was going on but Guilliman's buffs only work on Ultramarines (at least his re-rolls).

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Ghostly Daemon
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Re: 3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Dark Angels

Post#13 » Oct 03 2017 04:45

fraction64 wrote:So they definitely got it wrong with the various buffs.
Also what was the troop unit that grabbed the objective? Were they Ultramarines or Dark Angels? If they were ultramarines and the LR was dark angels then they couldn't have gotten into it.


It was some Dark Angels, I'm not sure what the actual troops were, they had hoods and carried chainswords, but the LR was also Dark Angels.

fraction64 wrote:Now as for the prize it is from the open war cards so the rules for it are different than the relic.
The relic has plenty of sensible restrictions that make the game type relatively fair, the prize does not. There are no restrictions for the prize. Any type of model can pick it up and move as far as they like in any way that they like. Has to be a pretty casual game for that mission type to be fun.


It was meant to be a casual game really, but it appeared our opponents didn't see it that way unfortunately. It's a shame it doesn't have those kind of restrictions, but I guess that's what makes it different from The Relic.

fraction64 wrote:Was surprised to hear you were able to even fire at Guilliman as he is a character under 10 wounds and most people put plenty of units in the way to prevent him from ever getting shot at.
Oh yeah and azreal can't be in a darkshroud to my knowledge. Now he does have a re-roll failed hits aura of his own so that might have been part of what was going on but Guilliman's buffs only work on Ultramarines (at least his re-rolls).


Yeah, he got very cocky with him and we managed to obliterate his guards. He ended up moving Guilliman all the way up the table right into our backline hence the bloodsport.

Well that's annoying too as he put Azreal in the Dark Shroud. I also didn't think buffs worked when you're inside transports, but it seems it was just destined to be one of those games.

I've got a Ghostkeel fully built and a Stormsurge halfbuilt, so hopefully I'll be able to out-cheese him next time (if there's a next time..) :sad:
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fraction64
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Re: 3000pts - Tau & Chaos vs Ultramarines & Dark Angels

Post#14 » Oct 04 2017 07:40

Make sure to remember the order of re-rolls and modifiers for your next game with that ghostkeels. It's usually something Guilliman players hate.

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