Markerlight shooting and timing

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
elrodogg
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Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#1 » Jun 14 2017 02:44

A Strike team contains a markerlight and wants to shoot at a unit of whatever that has not been hit by markerlights yet this turn.

Can you roll the markerlight first and then, assuming it hits, reroll any subsequent 1s rolled by the remainder of the unit that is shooting at the same target?

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QimRas
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#2 » Jun 14 2017 03:20

This was discussed previously on another tread. The consensus was that you could not.

I argued there that RAW you could. Firstly, the core rules describe doing each attack to completion.

Im addition, units that used to have Network Markerlights, like the Skyray and Firesight Marksman, now just have a standard markerlight.

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Panzer
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#3 » Jun 14 2017 03:25

QimRas wrote:This was discussed previously on another tread. The consensus was that you could not.

That's wrong. The consensus was that you could since the Shooting Phase is shot by shot. Anything else is fast dice rolling.

heksagon
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#4 » Jun 14 2017 03:25

That's not 100% clear for Tau players. Yet.
But, after all, rules say that you shoot model by model and you can alternatively speed up your shooting by rolling for the whole unit at once. That means you probably should benefit from one marketlight from your Firewarrior's unit, if that was your first shoot.

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QimRas
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#5 » Jun 14 2017 03:26

Panzer wrote:
QimRas wrote:This was discussed previously on another tread. The consensus was that you could not.

That's wrong. The consensus was that you could since the Shooting Phase is shot by shot. Anything else is fast dice rolling.

I may have ended up losing the thread of conversation. If so, that is my mistake.

heksagon
Shas'Saal
Posts: 12

Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#6 » Jun 14 2017 03:28

The most important quote from the rulebook in this case:

Fast Dice Rolling:
"The rules for resolving attacks have been written assuming tou will make them one at a time. However, it is possible to speed up your battles by rolling the dice for similar attacks together."

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#7 » Jun 14 2017 03:48

I think it's pretty clear a unit can benefit from it's own markerlights, there's not a single argument why not that isn't "because it couldn't last edition."

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boomwolf
Shas'La
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#8 » Jun 14 2017 03:50

Yup, RAW you can. and nothing dictates that the RAI is any different.

Its defiantly within the "dirty yet kosher" realm. I don't think any other gun in the game makes such a big difference when shot one by one.

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Vector Strike
Shas'La
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#9 » Jun 14 2017 05:59

In 6th and 7th codexes, markerlights had the limitation of its own unit not being able to use them in the rules. Such limitation was lifted in this index and probablty will be in the codex as well.

The fact that networked markerlights aren't a thing anymore adds more to this.

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Gragagrogog
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#10 » Jun 14 2017 07:08

Hmm, I just realised something... Since MLs are no longer consumed, benefit the unit who's firing them and markerlight shots can benefit from other markerlights(this has been gone since 6th I think), if you have a unit with multiple MLs firing at the same target, you'll have to roll them one by one if it's possible to reach (1ML) or (5ML) treshold on a unit before rolling them all.

So ie. you have 5 ML firing, roll 1st, fail to hit, roll second, hit, then roll the remaining 3 with rerolls of 1s.

JustGreg
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Posts: 90

Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#11 » Jun 14 2017 07:12

Gragagrogog wrote:Hmm, I just realised something... Since MLs are no longer consumed, benefit the unit who's firing them and markerlight shots can benefit from other markerlights(this has been gone since 6th I think), if you have a unit with multiple MLs firing at the same target, you'll have to roll them one by one if it's possible to reach (1ML) or (5ML) treshold on a unit before rolling them all.

So ie. you have 5 ML firing, roll 1st, fail to hit, roll second, hit, then roll the remaining 3 with rerolls of 1s.


Yes... yes you probably could, though your opponent will undoubtedly make a face at least as sketchy as your icon... :)

...Worth.

Edit: as you said, realistically you only need to roll separately until you land 1, then fast-roll the rest at once, as the only benefit you're looking to get for markerlight shots is reroll 1's, as they ignore cover, and if you already have 5, the rest of them are redundant anyway. Perhapppsss the 3 lights might come into play... but that's a rare one.

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azlanpower
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#12 » Jun 14 2017 07:20

Gragagrogog wrote:Hmm, I just realised something... Since MLs are no longer consumed, benefit the unit who's firing them and markerlight shots can benefit from other markerlights(this has been gone since 6th I think), if you have a unit with multiple MLs firing at the same target, you'll have to roll them one by one if it's possible to reach (1ML) or (5ML) treshold on a unit before rolling them all.

So ie. you have 5 ML firing, roll 1st, fail to hit, roll second, hit, then roll the remaining 3 with rerolls of 1s.


Makes sense. Increased efficiency. Gona do it this way from now onwards. Don't think my opponent can argue anything.

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Panzer
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#13 » Jun 14 2017 07:32

Gragagrogog wrote:Hmm, I just realised something... Since MLs are no longer consumed, benefit the unit who's firing them and markerlight shots can benefit from other markerlights(this has been gone since 6th I think), if you have a unit with multiple MLs firing at the same target, you'll have to roll them one by one if it's possible to reach (1ML) or (5ML) treshold on a unit before rolling them all.

So ie. you have 5 ML firing, roll 1st, fail to hit, roll second, hit, then roll the remaining 3 with rerolls of 1s.

That's what I did in my games. It's still pretty hard to get to 5+ Markerlights without dedicating all your Markerlight sources to it.
I think unless you really need that ignore cover or move&shoot you are better off with putting 1 Markerlight on several units (or 2 in case of Missiles which really helped me killing Kastellans).

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Maxwell
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#14 » Jun 15 2017 08:15

Panzer wrote:I think unless you really need that ignore cover or move&shoot you are better off with putting 1 Markerlight on several units (or 2 in case of Missiles which really helped me killing Kastellans).


Even with a stormsurge you think?

Edit: I know two would be needed at some junctions but still stuck on the idea needing 5 hits to get the BS most other faction's units already have.

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Panzer
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#15 » Jun 15 2017 09:11

Maxwell wrote:
Panzer wrote:I think unless you really need that ignore cover or move&shoot you are better off with putting 1 Markerlight on several units (or 2 in case of Missiles which really helped me killing Kastellans).


Even with a stormsurge you think?

Edit: I know two would be needed at some junctions but still stuck on the idea needing 5 hits to get the BS most other faction's units already have.

I didn't say 5+ hits on a target is bad. It's just not reliably to get. Every time you spend the extra efford and try to reach that magical 5+ but only get like 3 or 4 instead of 1 on multiple units, your efficiency goes down.

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Arka0415
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#16 » Jun 16 2017 08:12

boomwolf wrote:Yup, RAW you can. and nothing dictates that the RAI is any different.

Its defiantly within the "dirty yet kosher" realm. I don't think any other gun in the game makes such a big difference when shot one by one.


Dirty yet kosher. Love it! :D

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khayman
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Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#17 » Jun 16 2017 06:30

JustGreg wrote:Yes... yes you probably could, though your opponent will undoubtedly make a face at least as sketchy as your icon... :)


I think that until the first couple of stable Tau builds emerge (if they emerge), they'll be so sorry to see you struggle they'll just turn the other way in sympathy.

If not, you could always point out to them how your elite shooty army is worse in shooting than his own while at the same time being unable to participate in the assault and psychic phases.

Sorry, just watched a batrep against Dark Eldar and it was just utterly sad? Like, cringeworthy sad.

JustGreg
Shas'Saal
Posts: 90

Re: Markerlight shooting and timing

Post#18 » Jun 19 2017 02:05

khayman wrote:
JustGreg wrote:Yes... yes you probably could, though your opponent will undoubtedly make a face at least as sketchy as your icon... :)


I think that until the first couple of stable Tau builds emerge (if they emerge), they'll be so sorry to see you struggle they'll just turn the other way in sympathy.

If not, you could always point out to them how your elite shooty army is worse in shooting than his own while at the same time being unable to participate in the assault and psychic phases.

Sorry, just watched a batrep against Dark Eldar and it was just utterly sad? Like, cringeworthy sad.


I agree it's looking pretty grim at the moment. But we'll keep trying, because "For the greater good!" and all that...

welp.

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