Formation units questions

A review of Rules of Engagement from earlier encounters.
User avatar
KuroRyu
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 284
Contact:

Re: Formation units questions

Post#11 » Jan 20 2016 10:56

Emagdnim wrote:I am also not really up on formations, The new Tau ones are first ones I have used ( I am old fashioned) lol.

So,the stealth cadre (ghost/stealths).
Do they all have to be deployed together or deepstrike together?.

Want I am wanting to do is have the two stealth units infiltrate,then use the shas'vre's homing beacons to guide in my DS ghosts. Is that allowed?


This is perfectly legal, and a pretty good sounding strategy to boot.

One odd thing I found about the OSC is that the way I read wall of mirrors, the ghostkeel always gets wall of mirrors even when the stealthsuits are either not within 6" or dead. It's very strange from a logical point of view.

User avatar
AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 821

Re: Formation units questions

Post#12 » Jan 20 2016 03:33

KuroRyu wrote:
Emagdnim wrote:I am also not really up on formations, The new Tau ones are first ones I have used ( I am old fashioned) lol.

So,the stealth cadre (ghost/stealths).
Do they all have to be deployed together or deepstrike together?.

Want I am wanting to do is have the two stealth units infiltrate,then use the shas'vre's homing beacons to guide in my DS ghosts. Is that allowed?


This is perfectly legal, and a pretty good sounding strategy to boot.

One odd thing I found about the OSC is that the way I read wall of mirrors, the ghostkeel always gets wall of mirrors even when the stealthsuits are either not within 6" or dead. It's very strange from a logical point of view.


My understanding of it is the same. The Ghostkeel, RAW, gets the ignores cover and +1BS at all times. The SSuit team gets that if they are within 6in. Perhaps there will be an FAQ or unofficial FAQ that states otherwise, but for now it makes sense as it is presented. No weird hoops to jump through.

As for deployment options, I have been tinkering with the idea of using Positional Relays to outflank SSuit teams if infiltration is not an option. This way my Ghostkeel stays on the board and can do work. I want him to have 100% game presence and not get screwed by fickle deepstrike dice gods.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

User avatar
Emagdnim
Shas
Posts: 361

Re: Formation units questions

Post#13 » Jan 21 2016 10:36

I have used him a few times as part of the OSC.

Because he can't infiltrate or scout it means having the whole formation in your deployment or DS the entire thing. even with the amount of beacons I take thats a lot of room to find.

When I have started in deployment they tend to waste to waste the first turn due to being out of range of the fusions/bursts. turn two is either their big chance or the turn they get charged.I will soon have two 6 man stealth teams and two ghosts. That would mean either one big OSC or two minimum ones.With a beacon on each shas'vre (two per OSC ) and then my tetras etc it should be easy enough to get them into the right position on T2 for DS on the ghosts. Only worrying thing is passing the reserve roll. We don't have any tricks for that do we? like the Eldar Autrach. aegis and the special array on that? if only the control disc on tidwwall rampart did that xD
" Blasphemy is a victimless crime"

User avatar
NoobPwner84
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 192

Re: Formation units questions

Post#14 » Jan 21 2016 10:57

You guys are indeed correct, in an OSC then the Ghosts always recieve wall of mirrors + 1 buff, as RAW it states that the stealths must be near a ghost model 6" to benefit, but states no vice versa situation for the Ghosts. This is why a full OSC Ghosts are superb. Possibly the best unit in the codex for reliable damage output (if you are in range - it can be easy for your opponent to step out of your 30" damage bubble).

On the other questions - the Stealths only get the benefit of a +1 BS from wall of mirrors if near a ghost but they don't have to be deployed within that distance or move with them. Indeed, if playing Maelstrom missions it may be beneficial to infiltrate or deep strike them.
The true warrior engages only the worthy opponent

User avatar
AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 821

Re: Formation units questions

Post#15 » Jan 21 2016 12:38

Don't forget you guys can screen your SSuits with your Ghostkeel giving your SSuits +3 cover in the open. ;D
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

User avatar
g0ndur
Shas
Posts: 44

Re: Formation units questions

Post#16 » Feb 08 2016 06:17

New... questions.

I honestly do not understand the difference between the Mont'ka and Kauyon. For Kauyon GW writes "don't buy the new codex - buy the Kauyon for the codex + more". I don't own it because duh, I bought the new codex and I though that would be enough.

Can I use the formations from Kauyon for my "regular" hunter contingent building...? And what about Mont'ka if I, say, would like to use the drone Net VX1-0 formation for my regular hunter contingent.
Or can't I?

User avatar
Macknight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 298

Re: Formation units questions

Post#17 » Feb 08 2016 07:40

g0ndur wrote:New... questions.

I honestly do not understand the difference between the Mont'ka and Kauyon. For Kauyon GW writes "don't buy the new codex - buy the Kauyon for the codex + more". I don't own it because duh, I bought the new codex and I though that would be enough.

Can I use the formations from Kauyon for my "regular" hunter contingent building...? And what about Mont'ka if I, say, would like to use the drone Net VX1-0 formation for my regular hunter contingent.
Or can't I?


there is a kauyon hunter contingent force of organization chart:
core: 1+ (hunter cadre)
auxiliary: 1-10 per core (optimized stealth cadre, retaliation cadre, allied advance cadre, firebase support cadre, drone network(1 unit of drones), air caste support cadre, assigned air caste asset(1 sunshark or razorshark), infiltration cadre, heavy retribution cadre, armor interdiction cadre)
command: 0-1 per core (1 commander or shadowsun, 0-1 ethereal or aunshi or aunva, 1-2 units of crisis bodyguard)

kauyon command benefits: ideal mission commander(reroll warlord trait), coordinate firepower

Montka FOC:
core: 1+ of (hunter cadre or retaliation cadre)
aux: 1-10 per core (counterstrike cadre, rapid insertion cadre, ranged support cadre, piranha firestream wing, firebase support cadre, skysweep missile defense, assign air caste(1 sunshark or razorshark), air superiority cadre, drone net, allied advance cadre)
command: 0-1 per core (1 commander or farsight with 1 crisis bodyguard unit) or (the eight)

montka command benefits: ideal mission commander(NOTE: they have different warlord trait tables), killing blow

NOTE: the etereal council, riptide wing, and ghostkeel wing belong to neither FOC

The kauyon book has the new unit rules, and updates over the older tau codex, the formations, tau terrain rules, white scar formations/warlord trait/signature items, same for raven guard.

The montka has IG formations/cadia warlord trait/sig items, updated IG superheavies, assassin rules, farsight enclaves formations/warlord traits/sig items.
For the greater good!

User avatar
g0ndur
Shas
Posts: 44

Re: Formation units questions

Post#18 » Feb 09 2016 03:08

Thank you very much for your reply.

I'm not that interested in Farsight, but it sounds to me that I need to buy the Kauyon book to be sure. I think the main detachment is more expensive because of mandatory bonding knives, and thus I can't use my codex for cost distribution.

How GW does things these days is very confusing on several planes.

User avatar
shasocastris
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 986
Contact:

Re: Formation units questions

Post#19 » Feb 09 2016 10:46

g0ndur wrote:Thank you very much for your reply.

I'm not that interested in Farsight, but it sounds to me that I need to buy the Kauyon book to be sure. I think the main detachment is more expensive because of mandatory bonding knives, and thus I can't use my codex for cost distribution.

How GW does things these days is very confusing on several planes.

Eh, it's not that bad. If you've bought the 7th edition codex, you do not need to buy Kauyon. Unless you want to. They simply made Kauyon into an update for the 6th edition book (which is sort of cool, as I like the format of the 6th ed book).

As for detachments/formations, it's worth simply reviewing the rules both in the rulebook from pg 118-122 and then on pg 71 of the Tau codex to understand how the Hunter Contingent works. Instead of restricting players to the old FOC chart (which is now the Combined Arms Detachment), they've given options to make armies play like they do in the fluff, which is awesome.

Cheers!

User avatar
g0ndur
Shas
Posts: 44

Re: Formation units questions

Post#20 » Feb 11 2016 06:52

Thanks again, but some formations in the Kauyun are not in the Codex (the marker drone net, for instance). Or am I mixing things together with Mont'ka...?

User avatar
boomwolf
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 1752

Re: Formation units questions

Post#21 » Feb 11 2016 08:15

Probably mixing, the drone net is from Mont'ka.

User avatar
g0ndur
Shas
Posts: 44

Re: Formation units questions

Post#22 » Jul 21 2016 06:36

I have a new question regarding "breaking formations".

The codex states that the formation bubbles can overlap, meaning, a unit from e.g. Hunter Cadre can also be in the Firebase Support Cadre.

I currently run a 1850 p hunter cadre list with Firebase supp cadre and Infiltration cadre.
I realized after playing that the Inf C 4x Fast Attack slots "breaks" HC's 1-3 FA prerequisite.

Does that mean that either the HC or the Inf C is broken? Or just that one of the FA units from Inf C isn't a part of any formation...?

User avatar
boomwolf
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 1752

Re: Formation units questions

Post#23 » Jul 21 2016 08:58

No, no.
You got it all wrong.

A unit can't simply be of several formations. Each formation has a list of units that belongs to it and it alone and each formation requires it's own separate set of all units required.


HOWEVER. there are cases, such as the hunter contingent (not the cadre, mine you. Two different things) that are themselves made out of formations.

In THESE cases the unit in the "inner formation" keeps its own formation rules, and then piles on top of that the "super formation" rules, and practicaly belongs to both formations.

User avatar
Vector Strike
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 955

Re: Formation units questions

Post#24 » Jul 21 2016 09:14

To continue with boomwolf's explanation:

Image

All circles are detachments. Black is a CAD, green is a simple Firebase Support Cadre.
The big red one is a Hunter Contingent, Tau's Decurion-style detachment. It's made of formations like a CAD is formed by units.

Notice that the Firebase Support Cadre inside the Hunter Contingent has a different color than the one outside. It's like that because both formations are different ones. Also, notice that all circles inside the big one don't have intersections. It's like that because no unit can be part of more than one detachment - and formations are detachments.

However, the Decurion-style detachments are formed by formations, so a unit is part of both Hunter Contingent and its base formation (let's say, Hunter Cadre). A unit cannot, on the other hand, be part of both Hunter Cadre and Firebase Support Cadre, either inside or outside a Hunter Contingent.

User avatar
g0ndur
Shas
Posts: 44

Re: Formation units questions

Post#25 » Jul 21 2016 10:08

Terminology... thanks for the clarifications.

jeffersonian000
Shas
Posts: 36

Re: Formation units questions

Post#26 » Jul 27 2016 03:42

GW really needs to settle on a term for Decurion-style formations. I've been recommending "contingent" as a way to differentiate them.

SJ

budro
Shas
Posts: 43

Re: Formation units questions

Post#27 » Aug 03 2016 05:42

Emagdnim wrote:I have used him a few times as part of the OSC.

Because he can't infiltrate or scout it means having the whole formation in your deployment or DS the entire thing. even with the amount of beacons I take thats a lot of room to find.

When I have started in deployment they tend to waste to waste the first turn due to being out of range of the fusions/bursts. turn two is either their big chance or the turn they get charged.I will soon have two 6 man stealth teams and two ghosts. That would mean either one big OSC or two minimum ones.With a beacon on each shas'vre (two per OSC ) and then my tetras etc it should be easy enough to get them into the right position on T2 for DS on the ghosts. Only worrying thing is passing the reserve roll. We don't have any tricks for that do we? like the Eldar Autrach. aegis and the special array on that? if only the control disc on tidwwall rampart did that xD


It's strange that ghosts can't infiltrate, but that's the rules. I generally deploy the ghosts on the line, then infiltrate the stealths forward and hidden. Then I'll move the ghosts up and Congo back a stealth if necessary to get within 6". That's if I don't get the warlord trait of infiltrate 3 units.

ribbie
Shas
Posts: 2

Re: Formation units questions

Post#28 » Aug 19 2016 06:01

I'm using the Hunter Contigent and have got for example 3 units of 2 broadsides each with splitfire. If I shoot with only one model from each unit to target A and with each second model in the broadside unit to target B do i get the coordinate fire power +1BS for both targets, because I got two times 3 units shooting on one target? ( double coordinate power with 3 units)

Return to “Archival Datacore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest