Piranha Firestream + FAQ ruling

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
walrusman
Shas
Posts: 23

Piranha Firestream + FAQ ruling

Post#1 » Jul 13 2016 12:31

With the new FAQs for TAU out, people are complaining about the ruling on the Piranha Firestream wing's Rearm and Refuel ability.

Am I correct in thinking that since the rule says "If all surviving models in the formation are within 6" at the end of the movement phase..." and the drones would be apart of the formation, that even if only one drone was left and ended the movement within 6" of the table edge the entire formation could come back in on the next turn?

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 780

Re: Piranha Firestream + FAQ ruling

Post#2 » Jul 13 2016 12:35

The drones aren't part of the formation though. Once they seperate from the vehicle they form their own units and there are no drone units in the formation. ;)

The formation is already broken enough the way it is now after the FAQ. Not stronger than the Riptide Wing + Storm Surges and so on but still broken in a way.

walrusman
Shas
Posts: 23

Re: Piranha Firestream + FAQ ruling

Post#3 » Jul 13 2016 12:41

Panzer wrote:The drones aren't part of the formation though. Once they separate from the vehicle they form their own units and there are no drone units in the formation. ;)


I definitely agree it is broken. But since they come from the formations Piranhas, does that not make them part of the formation?

What about drones from a hammerhead or devilfish? Does that mean if i take a devilfish in a hunter cadre and separate the drones, the drones are not in the hunter cadre? Would they still be in the detachment since they aren't part of the hunter cadre formation?

If the above is True, then are drones worth taking on any vehicle at any time? They won't benefit from any rules except the +1 BS for the FSE Drone network.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 780

Re: Piranha Firestream + FAQ ruling

Post#4 » Jul 13 2016 12:56

Good question. Never thought about that. The coordinated fire special rule is not THAT great for such a small Drone unit anyway but yeah i guess they wouldn't be part of it then. :D
You take the Drones over the SMS for other reason, not because of the formation rules. ;)

walrusman
Shas
Posts: 23

Re: Piranha Firestream + FAQ ruling

Post#5 » Jul 13 2016 01:06

So do we need an FAQ for the FAQ? hahaha

The question really becomes: Do drones deployed by vehicles count as part of the formation and/or detachment the vehicles are from?

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 780

Re: Piranha Firestream + FAQ ruling

Post#6 » Jul 13 2016 01:25

Another thing that points towards the Drones not counting to the formation. To use the Rearm and Refuel rule every models of the formation have to be within 6" of the border. So the Drone factory couldn't work at all and it's kinda hard to believe that nobody noticed that so far.

walrusman
Shas
Posts: 23

Re: Piranha Firestream + FAQ ruling

Post#7 » Jul 13 2016 01:56

Panzer wrote:Another thing that points towards the Drones not counting to the formation. To use the Rearm and Refuel rule every models of the formation have to be within 6" of the border. So the Drone factory couldn't work at all and it's kinda hard to believe that nobody noticed that so far.


I believe it was something most people have been overlooking. Its already difficult to get rearm and refuel since EVERY model in the FORMATION needs to be within 6".
If you wanted to do it you would have to keep all models close to the edge, and the squad sizes would be limited to two piranhas at most due to not enough room. And that's if you were playing with the rules that if the piranha is destroyed it wont come back to 'full strength'

I think that the Drone Factory idea doesn't work because people didn't realize it had to be every model in the formation. The distinction between every model in the FORMATION and UNIT is pretty big but could easily have been overlooked. I originally thought it was similar to other rules where a single UNIT would come back (thinking AM conscripts with the special char Platoon Commander), until I reread it today after the FAQ.

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nic
Kroot'La
Posts: 594

Re: Piranha Firestream + FAQ ruling

Post#8 » Jul 13 2016 02:44

walrusman wrote:
I believe it was something most people have been overlooking. Its already difficult to get rearm and refuel since EVERY model in the FORMATION needs to be within 6".


Unless there is an errata I missed this is not correct. The wording is quite clear that it is all the models in a unit from the formation - not all models in the formation. Once the drones detach they are a separate unit for all purposes; they have no impact on the piranha unit being within 6" of a table edge.

The drone factory idea is still a IMO gimmick, useful in some games perhaps but mostly just to keep a cheap fast objective grabber alive until turn 5.

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nic
Kroot'La
Posts: 594

Re: Piranha Firestream + FAQ ruling

Post#9 » Jul 13 2016 02:47

walrusman wrote:With the new FAQs for TAU out, people are complaining about the ruling on the Piranha Firestream wing's Rearm and Refuel ability.

Am I correct in thinking that since the rule says "If all surviving models in the formation are within 6" at the end of the movement phase..." and the drones would be apart of the formation, that even if only one drone was left and ended the movement within 6" of the table edge the entire formation could come back in on the next turn?


I have my copy of the book open in front of me and it says "If all the surviving models from a unit in this Formation are within 6" of a table edge...."

That is what it says in Mont'Ka, are you seeing a different wording somewhere else?

walrusman
Shas
Posts: 23

Re: Piranha Firestream + FAQ ruling

Post#10 » Jul 13 2016 02:52

nic wrote:I have my copy of the book open in front of me and it says "If all the surviving models from a unit in this Formation are within 6" of a table edge...."

That is what it says in Mont'Ka, are you seeing a different wording somewhere else?

nic wrote:Unless there is an errata I missed this is not correct. The wording is quite clear that it is all the models in a unit from the formation - not all models in the formation. Once the drones detach they are a separate unit for all purposes; they have no impact on the piranha unit being within 6" of a table edge.

The drone factory idea is still a IMO gimmick, useful in some games perhaps but mostly just to keep a cheap fast objective grabber alive until turn 5.


You're both probably correct. My argument based off of the description in Battlescribe as that is all I have on me a the moment. I was planning to verify rules once I got home. If Mont'Ka has it listed as "unit" not "formation" then by all means the piranha infinite drone spam is possible and is definitely a gimmick.

To make it viable they would have to have 3 or more Piranhas in a single squad and that squad would be useless all game. Sure at turn 5 you would have 30 drones (that can't capture points) but the Piranhas would have done nothing all game.

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