Retaliation Cadre useless?

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polymphus
Shas
Posts: 13

Retaliation Cadre useless?

Post#1 » Jul 16 2016 05:49

Bear with me here - it's not an issue about how effective it is. The issue is that, because Broadsides can't deep strike, Low Altitude Deployment doesn't work.

None of the suits in the codex come with the DS rule - it's an aspect of their unit type (jet pack xyz). Broadsides are regular infantry, which means they don't have it.

The specific wording of the rule states "if all the units in this formation start in reserve ..." [emphasis mine]

Consider what the LAD rule would look like if it were intended to give deep strike to the broadsides: it would be half as long. The first sentence of the rule serves no purpose other than to clarify that it's not giving anybody a rule they don't already have.

The formation doesn't confer deep strike on units in the formation unless the units already start in reserve, and broadsides have no special rules allowing them to start in reserve. Some missions might include special rules allowing this, but otherwise, the formation can't take advantage of its biggest rule.

From the wording, it almost seems intentional that Low Altitude Deployment is only available in special missions allowing the broadsides to start deployment off the board.

Am I missing something here?

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Calmsword
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1490

Re: Retaliation Cadre useless?

Post#2 » Jul 16 2016 07:29

I think this is one of those "spirit of the rule".

If the members of the formation begin in reserves they may...

There can be countless explanations, temporary grav thrusters, a quick drop from an orca or maybe the Broadsides just fall out of their transport. I'd let anyone use this rule, but that might just be me.
~Good Hunting

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Macknight
Shas'La
Posts: 298

Re: Retaliation Cadre useless?

Post#3 » Jul 16 2016 08:57

Teleportation via Earth caste gadgets based off the imperial variant. The broadside can be dropped by 2 crisis.

On the rules side, any unit can start the game in reserve, though they mostly walk on from the board. The LAD is also a formation rule, which overrides any BRB it may normally not possess.
For the greater good!

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boomwolf
Shas'La
Posts: 1582

Re: Retaliation Cadre useless?

Post#4 » Jul 16 2016 10:32

Yes, you are missing something.

The rule requires the entire formation to be in regular reserves, not deepstrike reserves, and then it places them in a special "low altitude deployment" reserves that works like deepstrike, but isn't deepstrike.

At no point is the broadside required to actually be able to deepstrike normally in order to use LAD.

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nic
Kroot'La
Posts: 633

Re: Retaliation Cadre useless?

Post#5 » Jul 17 2016 05:39

polymphus wrote:
Am I missing something here?


With very few and rare exceptions any unit in the game may choose to start the game in reserve. Broadsides certainly may do so.

Rather than missing something I feel you may be reading too much into this - if you simply follow the instructions in the Low Altitude Deployment rule as written you will have no problems.

The Broadsides do not directly gain the Deep Strike special rule in the Retaliation Cadre, so they could not for example be placed in Deep Strike Reserve and arrive by Deep Strike normally after rolling reserves. They do gain the Low Altitude Deployment rule and subject to its restrictions arrive using the Deep Strike special rules - the restrictions are that all models in the formation must use the rule or none may and that they arrive on Turn 2 regardless.

There are plenty of places in the game where a model that does not itself have Deep Strike ends up using the Deep Strike special rules, it is a mechanic that the game designers like to re-use.

jeffersonian000
Shas
Posts: 36

Re: Retaliation Cadre useless?

Post#6 » Jul 17 2016 06:57

The best example of a common unit that deep strikes without having the Deep Strike special rule are Drop Pods.

SJ

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ArttesThePerishable
Shas'Saal
Posts: 118

Re: Retaliation Cadre useless?

Post#7 » Jul 18 2016 07:58

A fun fact though: The retaliation cadre does grant the broadsides "Relentless". allowing them to move without firing snapshots from their weapons. So fluffwise we can actually imagine that these broadsides a specially fitted with thrusters used just for landing from low altitude and for stabilization of their weapons.

Game-wise, I love dropping broadsides near enemy vehicles and then walking to their rear armor. Mobile broadsides are a bit unnecessary, but fun regardless.
Blood for the Blood God? No! Fire for my FireBlade!

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M'yen
Shas
Posts: 44

Re: Retaliation Cadre useless?

Post#8 » Jul 18 2016 12:58

To me the rule is crystal-clear. If the Formation starts in Reserve and you announce that they use Low Altitude Deployment you "...deploy the entire Formation using the Deep Strike special rule at the start of your second turn". The bold text is me stressing the words. The models may not have Deep Strike, but you use that deployment method for the Formation regardless.

Also, in the fluff-text for the Formation it says this: "Upon deployment the entire cadre drops from low altitude, even the Broadside Battlesuits employing single-drop grav-boosters to cushion their landing as they arrive directly into combat".
/M'yen

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