Question on instant death

A review of Rules of Engagement from earlier encounters.
Blade Runner
Shas'Saal
Posts: 63

Question on instant death

Post#1 » Feb 13 2017 07:18

Please correct me if I am wrong.
Instant death happens when a weapons strength is at least double a targets toughness.

Is this example correct?
A stormsurge blastcannon at 30" is S9 AP5 heavy2 L. Blast., so say I hit a squad of 5 space marines T4. Are they instant death because the is S9?

So can the target still do a saving through?, I'm assuming not.
Do I roll to hit and wound, or just to hit?

kak'ray
Shas'Saal
Posts: 39

Re: Question on instant death

Post#2 » Feb 13 2017 08:05

May I also add a question to this.
If hit by Instant death weapon, I know you cannot make a normal save if it's strength is double your toughness, but can you make an Invulnerable save if you have one.

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
Kroot'Ui
Posts: 596

Re: Question on instant death

Post#3 » Feb 13 2017 11:57

Instant Death is not, despite its name, death in an instant.

Instead, it ONLY has an effect on multi-wound models (who are not themselves protected against Instant Death through the Eternal Warrior special rule or by the Gargantuan Creature special rules) by removing ALL wounds on a model if that model fails their save, if any, against a wound with the Instant Death quality.

Instant Death does NOT negate the need to roll to wound. Instant Death does NOT negate the ability to make ANY saves that are normally available to the model (that is to say, an AP 6 wound that inflicts Instant Death would still allow a model with 5+ armor to make their armor save, while the same Instant Death wound would not allow a 6+ armor save. An Instant Death on a wound that doesn't ignore cover or invulnerable saves would still allow any cover or invulnerable saves normally allowed).

If you're still confused, I strongly recommend re-reading the rules involving Instant Death. They spell out the consequences fairly clearly.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 2893

Re: Question on instant death

Post#4 » Feb 14 2017 11:01

Unusualsuspect wrote:Instant Death is not, despite its name, death in an instant.

Instead, it ONLY has an effect on multi-wound models (who are not themselves protected against Instant Death through the Eternal Warrior special rule or by the Gargantuan Creature special rules) by removing ALL wounds on a model if that model fails their save, if any, against a wound with the Instant Death quality.

Instant Death does NOT negate the need to roll to wound. Instant Death does NOT negate the ability to make ANY saves that are normally available to the model (that is to say, an AP 6 wound that inflicts Instant Death would still allow a model with 5+ armor to make their armor save, while the same Instant Death wound would not allow a 6+ armor save. An Instant Death on a wound that doesn't ignore cover or invulnerable saves would still allow any cover or invulnerable saves normally allowed).

If you're still confused, I strongly recommend re-reading the rules involving Instant Death. They spell out the consequences fairly clearly.

^this
But a small thing to add. Instant Death also prevents Feel no Pain rolls and affects Necrons Reanimation Protocol rolls. Eternal Warrior doesn't help for FnP in an ID case but I'm not sure if it helps for the ReaP.

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Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 278

Re: Question on instant death

Post#5 » Feb 14 2017 11:08

Eternal Warrior doesn't remove the ID rule, it just prevents the ID attack from taking all wounds. FNP and RP are still negatively affected by ID.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 2893

Re: Question on instant death

Post#6 » Feb 14 2017 12:09

That's what I said. I was just unsure about ReaP since I never actually read the Necron codex myself.

Blade Runner
Shas'Saal
Posts: 63

Re: Question on instant death

Post#7 » Feb 14 2017 02:31

So if a weapons S is double a targets T (ex: S9 to T4) is that an instant death?
Or is this something I miss hear. With all the rules between the codex and rule book I'm still trying to piece together a decent knowledge base.

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
Kroot'Ui
Posts: 596

Re: Question on instant death

Post#8 » Feb 14 2017 02:38

Blade Runner wrote:So if a weapons S is double a targets T (ex: S9 to T4) is that an instant death?
Or is this something I miss hear. With all the rules between the codex and rule book I'm still trying to piece together a decent knowledge base.


Yes, a weapon's S being double or more than a target's T (as in the example) grants the wound the Instant Death quality. Instant Death can also be granted regardless of the weapon's strength or the target's toughness, as is the case for Force weapons when activated, Psilencers from the Grey Knight codex, and a variety of other special and unique weapons.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 2893

Re: Question on instant death

Post#9 » Feb 14 2017 03:58

Blade Runner wrote:So if a weapons S is double a targets T (ex: S9 to T4) is that an instant death?
Or is this something I miss hear. With all the rules between the codex and rule book I'm still trying to piece together a decent knowledge base.

Yes.
What it means is that if the model has more than 1 wound and fails his allowed saving roll it loses all his wounds at once.
Additionally the model isn't allowed to use its Feel no Pain roll if it has one.

Exception is if it has the Eternal Warrior special rule. Then it will still only lose 1 wound BUT can't take its Feel no Pain roll still.

Blade Runner
Shas'Saal
Posts: 63

Re: Question on instant death

Post#10 » Feb 14 2017 04:47

Ok, thanks for the clarification guys.
I'm building a stormsurge and am leaning to the blastcannon one reason is to not spend the 15pts on the driver cannon.
Which at 30" has S9 AP5, so I was trying to figure out if it could instant death T4 units.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 2893

Re: Question on instant death

Post#11 » Feb 14 2017 04:53

Well you you could. However there aren't that many T4 units with multiple wounds around I fear. :D
I personally prefer the Blastcannon since it makes you move your StormSurge around a lot more. I hate gunlines almost as much as I hate deathstars.
Also the threat of suddenly moving from S10 AP3 range into SD AP1 range often scares the *BAD WORD DELETED!* out of people. :D

kak'ray
Shas'Saal
Posts: 39

Re: Question on instant death

Post#12 » Feb 14 2017 05:18

Thank you from me as well. I've been diddled out of my saving throw for my Commander in our last game.
Great question Blade Runner.

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Pilchard
Shas
Posts: 39

Re: Question on instant death

Post#13 » Feb 14 2017 07:06

If you want to try both options, glue the back section of the Stormsurges gun on, i prefer the one with the piping, then either use the drive or blast as the front section. Doesnt need glue or magnets as it just slots in.

I prefer the driver cannon due to 'reliable' str 10, also fast armies can stay out of the D range quite easily and you cant take advantage of the anchor ability.

Blade Runner
Shas'Saal
Posts: 63

Re: Question on instant death

Post#14 » Feb 15 2017 02:33

Thanks for the advice. I'm actually currently molding the back half to cast, so that I can have both full guns and then magnetize. I don't really like the look of changing out the front of the guns.

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