Buffmander Question

A review of Rules of Engagement from earlier encounters.
Blade Runner
Shas'Saal
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Buffmander Question

Post#1 » Mar 01 2017 02:57

Does a buffmander have to be a commander XV8?
I feel as though I'd be losing out on his BS5 by using him as my buffmander.
Could I not give a Shas'vre XV8 ( or bodyguard) command & control, and multi spectrum? To buff the unit. With it still being lead by a commander?

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shasocastris
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Re: Buffmander Question

Post#2 » Mar 01 2017 03:59

Yes, though you are limited to three signature systems if you are taking the Shas'vre upgrade to a standard unit of Crisis suits.

Cheers!

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Mirth
Shas'La
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Re: Buffmander Question

Post#3 » Mar 01 2017 04:16

While it is true that you lose out on the Commander's BS, what you do gain is the ability for your Buffmander to also double as ye olde Tankmander at the same time. With MSS, CCN, Iridium, Simms, Shield gen (and you can always throw a couple other upgrades on him too) he can not only tank for your major damage unit, but as an Independent Character he can always run off to another unit if his buffs are no longer of use on his current unit.
When we forget we are soldiers, we stop fighting.

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Raverrn
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Re: Buffmander Question

Post#4 » Mar 01 2017 04:43

Also as an IC the Commander can spread the buffs to other units in need.

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Panzer
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Re: Buffmander Question

Post#5 » Mar 01 2017 05:44

The Buff'Vre is in fact more popular than the Buff'O these days (if one goes this route at all that is).

However don't worry too much about losing the Commanders BS5. He doesn't do more damage than any other Crisis with 2 Markerlights on the target and buffing our shooting with Markerlights is something we should always consider since without it our shooting is pretty meh. ;)

Also as others have said the Commander can easily act as tank as well thanks to Iridium, Shield Gen and Stim Injector. Something your Buff'Vre can't do. As tough as Crisis look compared to our other infantry, they are still just T4 3+ guys in a meta with tons of plasma, melta and grav thanks to everyone expecting to face Marines.
Consider them as glasscannons so if you want to invest points in a buffing model consider also investing points in something to protect them (Tankmander or Shadowsun mainly)......or treat the whole unit as expensive suicide bomb with Farsight. A classic strategy but not a very good one these days imo. :D

Bolter&Rail
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Re: Buffmander Question

Post#6 » Mar 01 2017 09:17

One strategy I tried in a tournament a while back was having a commander with iridium, stim injector, missile pods, and drone controller. I then put the multispectrum, PEN, C&C on the Shas'vre in a large crisis unit with missile pods and shadowsun with them. My logic here was two fold:

1. the commander up front can tank wounds without any fear of rolling a terrible round and losing the very valuable signature system buffs and reducing the damage output of the unit severely

2. I had a naked unit of marker drones nearby that my commander could hop into if I felt I needed crucial markerlight support for riptides or anything else in the list

End of day I tried to let the commander have 2 different role options depending on the list I was facing and if I felt I needed crucial markerlight hits or if the commander could just stick with the crisis team and make them a very tough nut to crack (even without the commander crisis suits are taking 2+ cover saves in terrain).

I have since abandoned this strategy for two other reasons:

1. I was deathly afraid of someone precision shooting the Shas'vre to death and making the crisis unit incompetent. Never have had a problem with it so likely irrational, but it did keep me up at night

2. A more cost effective option is putting the markerdrone in the crisis unit and giving the crisis suits all target lock. Save points on the Shas'vre upgrade and the drone costs with only the target locks to mildly offset the savings.

I like the concept of savings commander points and giving buffs to a shas'vre instead, but nothing tanks wounds for an expensive crisis unit like a T5 commander with stims sitting on a 2+ cover save and reliably looking out sir wounds to drones or whatever models you like...

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
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Re: Buffmander Question

Post#7 » Mar 02 2017 12:42

The Shas'O (HQ Crisis Suit) is typically picked for a number of reasons:

1) He has four wounds.
2) He can have an unlimited amount of Signature Systems (as points allow of course).
3) He gets a LoS roll of 2+ since he is an IC.
4) He is an HQ choice so he can join other units as needed.

He is all around more flexible and stronger than a normal Crisis Shas'vre suit. Do not think of his BS5 being wasted, rather, think of the benefits you gain from the above points. If he is taking Markerdrones, consider his BS5 buffing their shooting as well.

It all depends on what kind of list you are taking though. A Crisis Shas'Vre can do well in the same position too. A typically list might be a Shas'Vre with Multispectrum Sensor Suite, Command and Control Node, and a Drone Controller(or PEN Chip), with a couple of Missile Pod (or Plasma) Crisis Suits and Markerlight Drones. The unit becomes cheaper in this way, but you lose a lot of toughness.

The best teacher is experience in this case, so it might be worth it for you to try out whatever configuration you think is best (or fun) and see how it works.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

TheDragonsDen
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Re: Buffmander Question

Post#8 » Mar 02 2017 06:39

2 questions,
1. How do the crisis suits get a 2+ cover save in terrain? Is there something I'm missing here?

2. It was also noted that if you add marker drones to the commander his BS5 will 'buff' the drones? This only happens if he has a drone controller correct? They didn't mention the controller hence the reason I'm asking.


Thanks.

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Mirth
Shas'La
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Re: Buffmander Question

Post#9 » Mar 02 2017 06:46

For the first question, I'm not really sure. If you add Shadowsun to the unit (confering stealth and shrouded) then that would give you that level of cover save (probably) but otherwise I'm not certain.

As for the second, the commander will only "buff" the BS of the drones if he has a drone controller. Without it, the drones operate at their normal, unmodified BS.
When we forget we are soldiers, we stop fighting.

Bolter&Rail
Shas'Saal
Posts: 68

Re: Buffmander Question

Post#10 » Mar 02 2017 09:17

1. How do the crisis suits get a 2+ cover save in terrain? Is there something I'm missing here?


If the crisis team has Shadowsun in the unit then she confers Stealth and Shrouded for a 4+ cover save in the open. Put the unit in some backfield ruins and utilize their 36 inch range while having a 2+ cover save then. Only things that will scare that unit are tau markerlights to strip cover followed by riptide pie plate or ap3 flamers in general. Other than that, the unit is pretty darn difficult to wound.

2. It was also noted that if you add marker drones to the commander his BS5 will 'buff' the drones? This only happens if he has a drone controller correct? They didn't mention the controller hence the reason I'm asking.


Correct you need drone controller to improve the drone ballistic skill. A unit that is putting a lot of eggs in one basket but does all-the-above:
Commander (iridium, stim injector, drone controller, C&C, Multispectrum, PEN chip)
4x crisis (2 missile pods, target lock)
shadowsun
6 markerdrones

That unit placed on a backfield objective in ruins cover will have a 2+ cover save, dish out 5 markerlights that another part of your army can use, and be able have the crisis suits shoot wherever you like using the benefits from the commander. If you have scary weapons shot at you then have the commander Look out Sir onto a marker drone and don't sweat. That said this is an expensive unit so if a stormsurge gets a couple markerlights onto this unit and lands a str10 ap2 pie plate....you will be very sad

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
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Re: Buffmander Question

Post#11 » Mar 02 2017 11:07

TheDragonsDen wrote:2 questions,
1. How do the crisis suits get a 2+ cover save in terrain? Is there something I'm missing here?

2. It was also noted that if you add marker drones to the commander his BS5 will 'buff' the drones? This only happens if he has a drone controller correct? They didn't mention the controller hence the reason I'm asking.


Thanks.
1) Two units for Tau can confer a 2+ cover in terrain - Shadowsun and Stealth Suits and (Ghostkeels in formation I think). You could have Shadowsun sit with your Commander and Crisis suits to confer the 2+ cover in terrain. This is an expensive option for a backfield unit though.

2) This only happens with Drone Controller and Drone Controller only works with Gun Drones, Markerlight Drones, and Sniper Drones. The Drones take the BS of the model that has Drone Controller.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Buffmander Question

Post#12 » Mar 03 2017 02:53

Bolter&Rail wrote:
1. How do the crisis suits get a 2+ cover save in terrain? Is there something I'm missing here?


If the crisis team has Shadowsun in the unit then she confers Stealth and Shrouded for a 4+ cover save in the open. Put the unit in some backfield ruins and utilize their 36 inch range while having a 2+ cover save then. Only things that will scare that unit are tau markerlights to strip cover followed by riptide pie plate or ap3 flamers in general. Other than that, the unit is pretty darn difficult to wound.


Or Wyverns. 2-3 of those are about 100p and would wreck any Crisis unit no matter where they are or what characters you have them joined. :D

kak'ray
Shas'Saal
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Re: Buffmander Question

Post#13 » Mar 03 2017 12:51

Quick question as do no know the terms, but what is a Buffmander ?

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3145

Re: Buffmander Question

Post#14 » Mar 03 2017 01:59

kak'ray wrote:Quick question as do no know the terms, but what is a Buffmander ?

A Commander equipped with Signature Systems that buff his unit. :D
Mainly the Multi-Spectrum Sensor and Command&Control Node. Both prevent your Commander from shooting but in exchange let your unit Ignore Cover and re-roll To-Hit rolls.
Often the Puretide Engram Neurochip gets added which lets you chose one of a bunch of special rules at the beginning of your turn. Monster Hunter and Tank Hunter would be the most used I'd say.

Now a Crisis Shas'Vre could do that job just as well but such a unit is of course a pretty juicy target for your opponent so you'd want a way to protect them. You can achieve that with a Tankmander which is a Commander with Iridium Suit, Shield Gen and Stim Injector.
So since you already have him in your unit you don't really need to put the Buff equip on your Shas'Vre and can put it on your Commander as well instead. The benefit here is that he is more durable = unit can benefit longer from the buffs and you don't have to waste a Shas'Vre and can instead take another Shas'Ui for more dakka. ;)

Bolter&Rail
Shas'Saal
Posts: 68

Re: Buffmander Question

Post#15 » Mar 03 2017 06:39

Or Wyverns. 2-3 of those are about 100p and would wreck any Crisis unit no matter where they are or what characters you have them joined


Aren't Wyverns AP6 or something? Just put the commander upfront and your still taking 2+ armour saves with FnP

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Panzer
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Re: Buffmander Question

Post#16 » Mar 04 2017 04:55

Bolter&Rail wrote:
Or Wyverns. 2-3 of those are about 100p and would wreck any Crisis unit no matter where they are or what characters you have them joined


Aren't Wyverns AP6 or something? Just put the commander upfront and your still taking 2+ armour saves with FnP

Barrage wounds get allocated from the center of the blast template instead to the nearest model to the one shooting.

It's just the mass of wounds they pile on infantry for the points they cost that makes them good. 4 shots twin-linked and with shred for less than 50p is scary af and can even go through a 2+ armor eventually. ;)

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