Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
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Heldericht
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Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#1 » Jun 15 2017 02:33

Quick question.

Say I have 4 commanders in my army. My understanding is you can Kauyon 4 times (on 4 different turns) throughout the game.

However reading closer it might be that you can only declare Kauyon once no matter how many commanders you have (unless you have Shadowsun and she declares the 2nd one).

What's the consensus on this?

BillyBones
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#2 » Jun 15 2017 02:43

I would believe, that it is once per commander.

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Glarblar
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#3 » Jun 15 2017 02:46

Master of War: Once per battle, at the beginning of your turn, a single friendly COMMANDER can declare either Kauyon or Mont'ka


Above for reference.

I believe the intent is for you to only be able to either ability once. Multiple commanders does not mean you can use Kauyon more than once per battle

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Peregrim
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#4 » Jun 15 2017 02:59

It's once per battle, not once per Commander. However Shadowsun and Farsight allow you to declare either Kauyon or Mont'ka an additional time each battle.

BillyBones
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#5 » Jun 15 2017 03:02

Again excellent design on GW's part, with multiple commanders we are paying for ability which can't be used.

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Panzer
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#6 » Jun 15 2017 03:15

BillyBones wrote:Again excellent design on GW's part, with multiple commanders we are paying for ability which can't be used.

Seriously, the Commander is so incredibly efficient for its cost...finding something to complain requires a special kind of skill. :D
I rather have it this way than him costing 100+ points more just so we can spam his ability in case we actually field a Commander heavy list.

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relasine
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#7 » Jun 15 2017 03:24

Panzer wrote:...in case we actually field a Commander heavy list.


I think that's a forgone conclusion for the foreseeable.

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Panzer
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#8 » Jun 15 2017 03:29

relasine wrote:
Panzer wrote:...in case we actually field a Commander heavy list.


I think that's a forgone conclusion for the foreseeable.

But no justification. It would just turn the whole situation around and make it suck for "normal" lists that only want to field one Commander because suddenly you pay a ton of points for something that only matters if you'd spam that unit.

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Heldericht
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#9 » Jun 15 2017 04:08

Having it one use per game doesnt make sense.

Many other factions have hqs with AURAS (not even activated) which straight up gove rerolls to hit.

We have a once per turn ability where we cant even move (when Tau is now a mobility focus army).

It makes more sense from a consistent design perspective for the ability to be once per turn.

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Panzer
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#10 » Jun 15 2017 04:25

Heldericht wrote:Having it one use per game doesnt make sense.

Many other factions have hqs with AURAS (not even activated) which straight up gove rerolls to hit.

We have a once per turn ability where we cant even move (when Tau is now a mobility focus army).

It makes more sense from a consistent design perspective for the ability to be once per turn.

Not really.
Other factions characters who have auras that allow rerolls to hit are usually named characters.
Regular Captains or whatever usually have Auras that allow reroll of 1s. The same we can do with a single Markerlight, Multi-Tracker on Suits; being near Shadowsun or a nearby Ethereal if we stay stationary.

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Heldericht
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#11 » Jun 15 2017 04:28

Panzer wrote:Not really.
Other factions characters who have auras that allow rerolls to hit are usually named characters.
Regular Captains or whatever usually have Auras that allow reroll of 1s. The same we can do with a single Markerlight, Multi-Tracker on Suits; being near Shadowsun or a nearby Ethereal if we stay stationary.


You forgot to mention those armies also hit on 3s.

Markerlights hitting on 4s to give another source of reroll 1s doesnt justify the inconsistency at all.

That would make sense if our named characters would be able to allow rerolls as well then.

But they don't. Hence my point.

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Panzer
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#12 » Jun 15 2017 04:32

Heldericht wrote:
Panzer wrote:Not really.
Other factions characters who have auras that allow rerolls to hit are usually named characters.
Regular Captains or whatever usually have Auras that allow reroll of 1s. The same we can do with a single Markerlight, Multi-Tracker on Suits; being near Shadowsun or a nearby Ethereal if we stay stationary.


You forgot to mention those armies also hit on 3s.

Markerlights hitting on 4s to give another source of reroll 1s doesnt justify the inconsistency at all.

That would make sense if our named characters would be able to allow rerolls as well then.

But they don't. Hence my point.

It does because you don't compare armies on a unit by unit basis. Those armies are also able to have actual choppy units and their shooty units are taken out for a whole round if stuck in combat one way or another etc. etc. etc.

This is not chess. Armies are different. Let me tell you something that's probably shocking news to you but....there are even armies that don't have any re-roll to-hit auras on their characters at all. *gasp!*

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Heldericht
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#13 » Jun 15 2017 04:38

Yep. Those are not shooty armies.

Not so shocking.

My point was consistency across design is not being maintained. Admech have rerolls, marines have rerolls, IG have rerolls. All top shooting armies in 8th.

Like I said, my point stands.

Unless a FAQ clarifies the vague wordings one way or another, we'll have to agree to disagree.

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Panzer
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#14 » Jun 15 2017 04:42

Heldericht wrote:Yep. Those are not shooty armies.

Not so shocking.

My point was consistency across design is not being maintained. Admech have rerolls, marines have rerolls, IG have rerolls. All top shooting armies in 8th.

Like I said, my point stands.

Unless a FAQ clarifies the vague wordings one way or another, we'll have to agree to disagree.

You mean the consistency across design that's basically all about armies being different from eachother? Okay then.
Your point may stand because you just ignore away our ways to get the re-rolls of 1s, but that makes it a very shallow point.

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Mon'von
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#15 » Jun 15 2017 05:26

We mustn't forget guys that the new idea from GW is to make updates to these rules. So if we think something doesn't work out it's unfair then they can retcon it in the near future. We must look at these new rules as just bare bones and stop thinking them unfair or broken, we work with what we have right now and if it doesn't work at all then that's when we ask for a change.
"Wyrd bið ful aræd" Fate remains inexorable

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azlanpower
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#16 » Jun 16 2017 03:36

Heldericht wrote:Having it one use per game doesnt make sense.

Many other factions have hqs with AURAS (not even activated) which straight up gove rerolls to hit.

We have a once per turn ability where we cant even move (when Tau is now a mobility focus army).

It makes more sense from a consistent design perspective for the ability to be once per turn.


Yeah its horrible. Hitting on 4+, ML inefficient mechanism, and we got Once per battle Failed rerolls only, or twice with Farsight/shadowsun. GW hates us.

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Arka0415
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Posts: 1132

Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#17 » Jun 16 2017 08:10

Mon'von wrote:We mustn't forget guys that the new idea from GW is to make updates to these rules. So if we think something doesn't work out it's unfair then they can retcon it in the near future. We must look at these new rules as just bare bones and stop thinking them unfair or broken, we work with what we have right now and if it doesn't work at all then that's when we ask for a change.


This is the thing everyone's excited about but I'm not sure how it'd work. If we think something doesn't work out, they can retcon it. Sure, but how will they know? We Tau players don't vote for the rules-writers. We could write open letters, or contact influential people in the hobby, but otherwise I'm not sure if they'd ever notice outside of a formal petition.

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Panzer
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Re: Master of War - Kauyon or Mon'tka - Once per game. Period?

Post#18 » Jun 16 2017 08:13

Arka0415 wrote:
Mon'von wrote:We mustn't forget guys that the new idea from GW is to make updates to these rules. So if we think something doesn't work out it's unfair then they can retcon it in the near future. We must look at these new rules as just bare bones and stop thinking them unfair or broken, we work with what we have right now and if it doesn't work at all then that's when we ask for a change.


This is the thing everyone's excited about but I'm not sure how it'd work. If we think something doesn't work out, they can retcon it. Sure, but how will they know? We Tau players don't vote for the rules-writers. We could write open letters, or contact influential people in the hobby, but otherwise I'm not sure if they'd ever notice outside of a formal petition.

Obviously by giving them feedback on places where they read it.
For now it's mostly facebook, but they already said months ago that there will be a place for feedback in 8th.

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