For the Greater Good question.

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
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Re: For the Greater Good question.

Post#19 » Jul 14 2017 02:46

Impulse wrote:I had a pack of Meganobz charge my pathfinders, and an Ork Warboss charge my Stealth Suits. I fired overwatch from Pathfinders at Meganobz and FtGG from Stealth team also at Meganobz. Then fired FtGG from Pathfinders at Warboss.

Is this the most shots I could have gotten?


Yup.

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Impulse
Shas'Saal
Posts: 94

Re: For the Greater Good question.

Post#20 » Jul 14 2017 02:58

Yay I did something right in my first ever game!!!

My opponent tried to tell me FtGG didn't work that way. Glad I didn't listen.

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Panzer
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Posts: 3548

Re: For the Greater Good question.

Post#21 » Jul 14 2017 05:09

Impulse wrote:I had a pack of Meganobz charge my pathfinders, and an Ork Warboss charge my Stealth Suits. I fired overwatch from Pathfinders at Meganobz and FtGG from Stealth team also at Meganobz. Then fired FtGG from Pathfinders at Warboss.

Is this the most shots I could have gotten?

It's only right if you managed to wipe the Meganobz or if they failed their charge.
The enemy declares charges with one unit, you do all the overwatch you want/can, then the enemy moves the charging unit. So if the Meganobz didn't die and manage to get into melee with the Pathfinders, they wouldn't be able to support the Stealth Suits with FtGG against the Warboss.

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Impulse
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Re: For the Greater Good question.

Post#22 » Jul 14 2017 06:33

Panzer wrote:
Impulse wrote:I had a pack of Meganobz charge my pathfinders, and an Ork Warboss charge my Stealth Suits. I fired overwatch from Pathfinders at Meganobz and FtGG from Stealth team also at Meganobz. Then fired FtGG from Pathfinders at Warboss.

Is this the most shots I could have gotten?

It's only right if you managed to wipe the Meganobz or if they failed their charge.
The enemy declares charges with one unit, you do all the overwatch you want/can, then the enemy moves the charging unit. So if the Meganobz didn't die and manage to get into melee with the Pathfinders, they wouldn't be able to support the Stealth Suits with FtGG against the Warboss.


No way. They declare all their charging units. Then i resolve all my overwatch in order. Then they all move.

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Panzer
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Re: For the Greater Good question.

Post#23 » Jul 14 2017 06:42

Impulse wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Impulse wrote:I had a pack of Meganobz charge my pathfinders, and an Ork Warboss charge my Stealth Suits. I fired overwatch from Pathfinders at Meganobz and FtGG from Stealth team also at Meganobz. Then fired FtGG from Pathfinders at Warboss.

Is this the most shots I could have gotten?

It's only right if you managed to wipe the Meganobz or if they failed their charge.
The enemy declares charges with one unit, you do all the overwatch you want/can, then the enemy moves the charging unit. So if the Meganobz didn't die and manage to get into melee with the Pathfinders, they wouldn't be able to support the Stealth Suits with FtGG against the Warboss.


No way. They declare all their charging units. Then i resolve all my overwatch in order. Then they all move.

Nop. It's unit per unit.
The opponent goes into the "Charge phase", picks one of his units to declare a charge, you do overwatch, he rolls&moves the charging unit. Rinse and repeat.

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Impulse
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Posts: 94

Re: For the Greater Good question.

Post#24 » Jul 14 2017 06:46

Panzer wrote:
Impulse wrote:
Panzer wrote:It's only right if you managed to wipe the Meganobz or if they failed their charge.
The enemy declares charges with one unit, you do all the overwatch you want/can, then the enemy moves the charging unit. So if the Meganobz didn't die and manage to get into melee with the Pathfinders, they wouldn't be able to support the Stealth Suits with FtGG against the Warboss.


No way. They declare all their charging units. Then i resolve all my overwatch in order. Then they all move.

Nop. It's unit per unit.
The opponent goes into the "Charge phase", picks one of his units to declare a charge, you do overwatch, he rolls&moves the charging unit. Rinse and repeat.


Oh shoot, you're right. We screwed that up bigtime. The charge was invalid too bc i had drones all close in.

Cheese and crackers, this game is hard. >~<

Jburli
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 120

Re: For the Greater Good question.

Post#25 » Jul 15 2017 10:21

Arka0415 wrote:
The chance of destroying a target with overwatch is pretty low though I think.


Quite true, but if anyone can do it, a stormsurge can! Especially if it's rerolling ones from a markerlight hit.
Actually, I think a crisis suit team with 9 flamers might work, too :D

Oh, and about the charge order thing - yes, they happen one at a time, and players should use this to their advantage.
Like if you want to charge some kroot at some tactical marines, maybe charge the marines with a devilfish first, so you don't have to risk any kroot being cut down by overwatch bolter fire.

Xanrag
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 62

Re: For the Greater Good question.

Post#26 » Jul 15 2017 12:36

Charge orders really matter for characters now as well.. I had an assault squad with a CC character next to it assault me and he started with the squad.. and then totally blocked himself so that his character couldn't get close enough to hit. :biggrin:

Note that the "have to be within 1" of a model within 1"" only applies within units, not between units. So the character has to get to the front of the line. Usually the character is in the back or the middle of the unit as well so the unit has to charge first.. you just have to leave room for the character to be able to come forward since the charging moves are so much more flexible these days.

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 892

Re: For the Greater Good question.

Post#27 » Jul 16 2017 10:22

Yojimbob wrote:
Jburli wrote:One more question. Do you need to declare all instances of FtGG before you fire any shots? If they don't end up firing are they still prohibited from firing overwatch again?

Example: a pathfinder team is within 6" of a stormsurge, which is getting charged. Must you immediately declare the pathfinders will overwatch with FtGG, or can you do the stormsurge's overwatch first, then decide?

If you must declare all attacks first, and the 'surge wipes out the enemy unit, do the pathfinders still lose their chance to overwatch again, even though they fired no shots?


I would say that if you declared them to try to shoot but if the Stormsurge wipes them out first that they would not forfeit their potential overwatch. FtGG says they may fire overwatch as if they were targeted and ONLY then if they have done so would they lose their ability to overwatch again.


You are kind of putting meaning to words that do not mean what you think it means. "May fire" doesn't mean "if you don't get to shoot, then it doesn't count." It is simply giving you permission to fire overwatch even though you are not the direct target of the charge. Afterwards it tells you the penalty for using the rule - you may not fire overwatch. The basic idea here is that there is a risk/reward for getting to use FtGG.

This would fall under the vein of declaring all targets of your weapons before shooting. Example: I have a Crisis Suit with two missile pods and a flamer. I have two targets, one at 3in and one at 20in. I have declared to fire my missile pod and flamer at the 3in target and the other missile pod at the 20in target. I fire my flamer first and kill the 3in target. I DO NOT get to re-purpose my missile pod from the 3in target to the 20in target because I have already declared what was shooting. Risk/Reward.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: For the Greater Good question.

Post#28 » Jul 16 2017 10:58

Eh, since weapons got shot model by model and weapon after weapon, just leave the Seeker/Destroyer Missiles for the end if the enemy unit is still alive. If it dies before you get to shoot those Missiles then you still have them obviously.

Jburli
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 120

Re: For the Greater Good question.

Post#29 » Jul 17 2017 12:58

I disagree Anon. FtGG is not the same as weapon allocation within a unit.

Within a unit yes, you cannot change targets once you've allocated shots.
With multiple units though, you can shoot with the first unit, see the result then shoot with the second depending on what's left, even in overwatch.

Let's say some gaunts multi-charge some fire warriors and a skyray. The FWs shoot first and kill the gaunts. You do NOT have to discard all the skyray's seeker missiles simply because it would have fired had the situation been different.
The same applies to FtGG, as far as I can see.

.. Yet another rule that could've been more clearly worded, though!

PS: I have NO idea why anyone would be using a skyray ;)

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 892

Re: For the Greater Good question.

Post#30 » Jul 19 2017 11:26

Jburli wrote:
Within a unit yes, you cannot change targets once you've allocated shots.
With multiple units though, you can shoot with the first unit, see the result then shoot with the second depending on what's left, even in overwatch.
)


But reread the FtGG rules.

When an enemy unit declares a charge, a unit with this ability that is within 6'' of one of the charging unit's targets may fire Overwatch as if they were also targeted. A unit that does so may not fire Overwatch again this turn. Xenos 2 PG 48


Now look at the Charge Phase.

Each time a charge is declared against a unit, the target unit can immediately fire Overwatch at the would-be attacker... Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack and uses all the normal rules..." Core Rulebook PG 182


The rule itself says that if you use supporting fire, you may not fire overwatch again this turn. If you look at the Charge Phase rule, is says it is resolved like a shooting attack. So just like in my crisis suit example above, you've already declared where those shots are going. Whether or not you've hit the target or not doesn't matter. You've still declared it.

The Risk - I can't shoot Overwatch again this turn.

The Reward - I get to add my Overwatch strength to the unit beside me.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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