Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

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TwilightFox
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Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#1 » Jul 30 2017 07:28

So, several of our models come equipped with "Photon Grenades" which deal no damage but cause any units hit by them to take a -1 to hit until "the end of the turn." If we use them on our turn, how exactly does that help us?

I could see them being used by a unit in a shooting phase before a charge, but we're the Tau... We don't charge (at least not with the units that get these grenades).

I could also see them being used during overwatch against an oncoming charge, since the weapon description doesn't specify -1 to Shooting Attacks it would apply in the Fight phase as well. But that's extremely situational, and only hits on a 6...

Outside of these very specific examples, is there any reasonable use for our Photon Grenades?
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Panzer
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#2 » Jul 30 2017 07:43

TwilightFox wrote:So, several of our models come equipped with "Photon Grenades" which deal no damage but cause any units hit by them to take a -1 to hit until "the end of the turn." If we use them on our turn, how exactly does that help us?

I could see them being used by a unit in a shooting phase before a charge, but we're the Tau... We don't charge (at least not with the units that get these grenades).

I could also see them being used during overwatch against an oncoming charge, since the weapon description doesn't specify -1 to Shooting Attacks it would apply in the Fight phase as well. But that's extremely situational, and only hits on a 6...

Outside of these very specific examples, is there any reasonable use for our Photon Grenades?

The point is to shoot them in Overwatch either for yourself or for a friendly unit nearby so your chances of survival raise so you can fall back next turn.
That's literally all there's to it.

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TwilightFox
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#3 » Jul 30 2017 07:52

That use makes a lot of sense, honestly. I just didn't know if there was an alternative use for them or not. I must have just been overthinking it.

So they're highly situational, but at least they don't cost us any additional points, right?

Thanks for the clarification!
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Panzer
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#4 » Jul 30 2017 08:23

Yeah pretty much. Although even though they are situational it doesn't mean they aren't powerful. To-hit modifier are really strong.

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Blindeye
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#5 » Jul 30 2017 08:40

The fly rule makes charging pretty strong against some armies in 8th edition as well. I can see using a photon gernade during the shooting phase to reduce the counter attack potential of a unit you are planning to charge (simply to lock up) with a devilfish per say.
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Draco023
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#6 » Jul 30 2017 11:36

They're handy if you use a large pack of hounds as a screening unit for your gun line. Have one or two FW throw grenades then let the hounds loose on what ever remains after the smoke clears. Even with the nearly non - existent saves, that - 1 to hit should keep them bogged down through your opponents turn. Won't work against a huge hoard of orks, or dedicated close combat troops, but your average marines should be stuck.

Then again, I'm biased. I really like hounds, and any chance I can make them work better I'll take! :D So I see no reason this wouldn't work just as well with drones.

Ko'Vash
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#7 » Jul 30 2017 01:18

I play against necrons often enough at my store. While they can melee, they're not super threatening in melee. Nowhere near as threatening as they are in the shoot in phase, anyway.

So, if I jump a unit of breachers right in front of them, paste a huge number of them but leave some standing, I really don't want to sit there and weather getting shot at by them. I'll throw a photon grenade in preparation during my shooting and charge.

This works best if you have darkstrider nearby or another unit able to clean up the mess, of course. On my following turn, I can have the breachers c
Fall back out of combat and back into their transport to protect them if they can't shoot.

My point is, photon grenades have a few potential uses. You just need to plan a bit and figure it out, is all.

Jburli
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#8 » Jul 30 2017 01:57

If an enemy unit has good guns and/or gets some special bonus for charging, charging them first isn't always bad idea (especially if your unit can take a punch and has FLY). The -1 to hit will help keep them alive until your next turn, when you can fall back and shoot that unit to death.

Alternatively, it's just something you can do in overwatch to make whatever's charging you a little less dangerous.

It's true, they're not very useful, but at least they're free!

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Arka0415
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#9 » Jul 30 2017 11:50

Ko'Vash wrote:I'll throw a photon grenade in preparation during my shooting and charge.


TAU'VA!

Anyway, as long as the charge is statistically advantageous for you, then this really isn't a bad trick. I love seeing Tau in combat in this new edition- use combat for utility, not damage, and it can be surprisingly effective!

Ko'Vash
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#10 » Aug 02 2017 07:04

I mean, it could be done in 7th and prior, too. In 6th I had a lone survivor of a crisis team charge into a unit of the daemon flamer dudes (crazy, I know) because they'd been mulching my infantry. I'd decided I had enough of that. That lone crisis suit bogged down the unit for at least two turns. May have even killed a couple, but I don't recall. Either way, I do remember that delaying those guys won me the game. Even if we're terrible in combat, never underestimate the value of a well timed charge.

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Arka0415
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#11 » Aug 04 2017 09:23

Ko'Vash wrote:I mean, it could be done in 7th and prior, too. In 6th I had a lone survivor of a crisis team charge into a unit of the daemon flamer dudes (crazy, I know) because they'd been mulching my infantry. I'd decided I had enough of that. That lone crisis suit bogged down the unit for at least two turns. May have even killed a couple, but I don't recall. Either way, I do remember that delaying those guys won me the game. Even if we're terrible in combat, never underestimate the value of a well timed charge.


The utility of combat, especially for XV8s, is massively better now in 8th. As long as the unit you'd be charging doesn't have fly, and isn't powerful in melee, charging is an extremely viable option now!

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AnonAmbientLight
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#12 » Aug 09 2017 09:09

It's D6 grenades. There's a good chance you'll get at least one from a single unit. If you have supporting fire, you'll be getting at least one, potentially a couple. It's -1 to hit, they stack with other effects, and you can potentially push your opponent to be unable to hit at all if you're lucky.

Don't count on it to save your bacon though.
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Dark Hope
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#13 » Aug 09 2017 09:36

Hitting with even one before charging makes their 6s become 5s, they can't hit you. Perfect for charging a big nasty heavy gun model without having to worry about a d6 shot (or more) landing in overwatch.
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MNGamer
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#14 » Aug 09 2017 10:32

Dark Hope wrote:Hitting with even one before charging makes their 6s become 5s, they can't hit you. Perfect for charging a big nasty heavy gun model without having to worry about a d6 shot (or more) landing in overwatch.

Overwatch is resolved at BS 6+ regardless of modifiers
Even when broken, a sword may still cut~Aun'ko'vash

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Dark Hope
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#15 » Aug 10 2017 06:53

MNGamer wrote:
Dark Hope wrote:Hitting with even one before charging makes their 6s become 5s, they can't hit you. Perfect for charging a big nasty heavy gun model without having to worry about a d6 shot (or more) landing in overwatch.

Overwatch is resolved at BS 6+ regardless of modifiers


Oh you're right, I forgot that regardless of modifiers part.
If kroot eat orks, doesn't that make them omvivores?

1ofmany
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#16 » Sep 02 2017 05:04

Oke some new info is that -1 stackable?........ Lets say the unit is 5 strong. I use the genade in overwatch 5xD6= 16 genades total and now I roll from those 16 dice 3 x a 6 does the opponents have a -3 to hit now?......

It almost sounds like sheeting :)

Thanks

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Panzer
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#17 » Sep 02 2017 05:20

1ofmany wrote:Oke some new info is that -1 stackable?........ Lets say the unit is 5 strong. I use the genade in overwatch 5xD6= 16 genades total and now I roll from those 16 dice 3 x a 6 does the opponents have a -3 to hit now?......

It almost sounds like sheeting :)

Thanks

A unit can only throw one grenade, but it should be stackable from multiple different units.

1ofmany
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Re: Photon Grenades -- What's the Point?

Post#18 » Sep 02 2017 06:00

Oke Panzer, so if I get lucky one unit D6 grenade. roll a 6...... 6 dice rol and then 2X a 6 so opponent unit -2 to hit ore 1 unit can only generat only -1 to hit modifier ever with grenade .

Just for the clarification:)

Thanks

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