Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

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Dark Hope
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Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#1 » Aug 03 2017 03:19

Ok so... this is confusing as hell. I'm going to list these one at a time first, then explain the problem.

1: charging, roll 2d6 and add them together to get result
2: the faq/errata says "some rules allow you to reroll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If the rule allows you to reroll a result that was made by using 2 or more dice added together, unless otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again.
3: the command point ability says: reroll any one dice.

The argument on one side is that the command point ability specifically states "any one dice"

The other argument is it doesn't specify that it ignores the rule. In other words it's not specifying at all.

They are both core rules I think, so I can't figure out if one supersedes the other based on that.

Can anyone clarify?
If kroot eat orks, doesn't that make them omvivores?

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Quartz
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Re: Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#2 » Aug 03 2017 04:43

I guess this also applies to the pseudo melta rule on our fusion blasters and many other weapons, where you roll two dice and pick the highest - would you only reroll one with the CP or would you reroll both?
We gave them a chance at the greater good, now they die

Antao
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Re: Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#3 » Aug 03 2017 05:24

Games workshop's general stance on rules is that codex supersedes rulebook, and specific supersedes general. We discussed this in my gaming group as well and without much fight came to the conclusion that the stratagem command re-roll was intended to be an exception to the normal rolling rules, so it's use would allow you to re-roll a single dice of the two dice rolled for charging, or basilisk shots, or "melta" damage.

There are no further clarifications we could find on it (other than what you've posted above), however I expect if they intended to change the application of the stratagem the FAQ would have addressed the stratagem directly. Rules as written it's a little confusing (after the FAQ), rules as intended I think it's meant to only re-roll a single dice per use.

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SomeTauGuy
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Re: Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#4 » Aug 03 2017 06:13

Had a game on the weekend with a friend who plays Blood Angels and had a really good example of this sort of thing occur.

He had cast "Veil of Time" on a tactical squad in preparation for declaring a charge on a unit of Pathfinders. When he rolled for the charge distance he got a 5 and a 3 (he needed a total of 9). We looked at the FAQ, the stratagem in the rulebook and the description of Veil of Time and came to the conclusion that his options were:

1. Spend a command point to use the stratagem and reroll a single dice (obviously the 3)
2. Use Veil of Time to "reroll the charge roll". This would however require him to reroll both die.

He could only do one of these as you can only ever reroll a dice once.

He decided to go with spending the command point for a single dice reroll and thankfully, got a 2 :biggrin:
'Cause I'm a sucker for applying math to things - http://www.grimdarkmath.com

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#5 » Aug 03 2017 06:58

Antao wrote:Games workshop's general stance on rules is that codex supersedes rulebook, and specific supersedes general. We discussed this in my gaming group as well and without much fight came to the conclusion that the stratagem command re-roll was intended to be an exception to the normal rolling rules, so it's use would allow you to re-roll a single dice of the two dice rolled for charging, or basilisk shots, or "melta" damage.

There are no further clarifications we could find on it (other than what you've posted above), however I expect if they intended to change the application of the stratagem the FAQ would have addressed the stratagem directly. Rules as written it's a little confusing (after the FAQ), rules as intended I think it's meant to only re-roll a single dice per use.


I agree, Stratagem re-roll a single dice.

Ko'Vash
Shas'La
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Re: Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#6 » Aug 03 2017 08:06

I suspect that the strategism is intended to abide by the faq. See the Eldar Farseer's ability to reroll for its psyker stuff for an example of a rule that clearly states you may reroll one or both dice.

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Dark Hope
Gue'La
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Re: Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#7 » Aug 03 2017 12:16

Quartz wrote:I guess this also applies to the pseudo melta rule on our fusion blasters and many other weapons, where you roll two dice and pick the highest - would you only reroll one with the CP or would you reroll both?


You would reroll one, because you don't add those two dice together.
If kroot eat orks, doesn't that make them omvivores?

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boomwolf
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Re: Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#8 » Aug 03 2017 02:17

If a rule causes you to reroll the RESULT you reroll all dice.

The stratagem does not reroll the result, it reroll one dice, regardless of what kind of dice abs what it does.

In contrast, an ability telling you to reroll charge range reroll the result itself, and by such all dice involved.

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Overheal
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Re: Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#9 » Aug 03 2017 02:55

Dark Hope wrote:Ok so... this is confusing as hell. I'm going to list these one at a time first, then explain the problem.

1: charging, roll 2d6 and add them together to get result
2: the faq/errata says "some rules allow you to reroll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If the rule allows you to reroll a result that was made by using 2 or more dice added together, unless otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again.
3: the command point ability says: reroll any one dice.

The argument on one side is that the command point ability specifically states "any one dice"

The other argument is it doesn't specify that it ignores the rule. In other words it's not specifying at all.

They are both core rules I think, so I can't figure out if one supersedes the other based on that.

Can anyone clarify?

It doesn't have to specify that it ignores the rule; it simply states that you re-roll "any one dice [sic]", therefore it it "otherwise stated" that you re-roll "any one die" with that command point, rather than re-rolling the result made by using 2 or more collective dice.

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Dark Hope
Gue'La
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Re: Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#10 » Aug 03 2017 03:34

"Some rules allow you to reroll a dice roll, which means you get to reroll some or all of the dice again."

Seems to me that's exactly what the errata is talking about, rerolling a dice roll. The CP ability is exactly that, rerolling a dice roll.
If kroot eat orks, doesn't that make them omvivores?

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thesnailmaster
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Re: Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#11 » Aug 03 2017 05:24

The Strat says "You may reroll any SINGLE dice" so the FAQ has nothing to do with it, that ability is more for things like the ork special rule "ere we go"

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Dark Hope
Gue'La
Gue'La
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Re: Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#12 » Aug 03 2017 07:11

thesnailmaster wrote:The Strat says "You may reroll any SINGLE dice" so the FAQ has nothing to do with it, that ability is more for things like the ork special rule "ere we go"


Rerolling a single dice in a set that gets added together is exactly what the errata is talking about though...
If kroot eat orks, doesn't that make them omvivores?

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thesnailmaster
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Re: Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#13 » Aug 03 2017 07:16

Well then its an argument whether "any single dice" falls under the "otherwise stated" clause in the faq, personally I believe it does.

Ko'Vash
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Charging, faq, errata, and command point reroll conflict.

Post#14 » Aug 03 2017 07:46

Sounds like we need an faq for the faq, really.

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