Pile In

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
Antao
Shas'Saal
Posts: 46

Pile In

Post#1 » Aug 09 2017 09:17

Hello all,

Ran across a someone strange seeming situation yesterday watching a game between friends. In this game / picture below the red dots (Tyranid Warriors) had just charged the green dots (Guardsmen). Their charge move left them positioned roughly pictured. (note the front models were in base to base contact and the entire picture was a little more cramped.)

The Tyranid player went to do his pile in move. The pile in move rule is specifically: "You may move each model in the unit up to 3" - this move can be in any direction so log as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model.

Image

In the pictured case, the nearest enemy model to the Warrior in the rear is the guardsman in the middle of the wedge. Since the pile in rule states that he must move closer to the nearest enemy model, we came to the conclusion he couldn't actually pile in, since while he could have moved toward the edges of the wedge formation to get him closer to "the unit" as a whole, he would have been moving farther away from the closest enemy model (The guardman in the center)

This seemed to be how the rules were written, but felt weird to all of us, is this the interpretation of everyone else around?

Similarly, if the warriors were to "wipe out" the guardman unit, the consolidate rule says they must move closer to the nearest enemy model, so even if the unit is wiped out they have to move up to 3" closer to the new closest enemy model?

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Pile In

Post#2 » Aug 09 2017 09:46

That's right.
If he wanted to pile in, the other Tyranids would have made room for him by piling in as well. Which should be easily possible since after a charge you don't have to put them into base contact.
Just leave 0.9" space between your models and the charged models and you have lots of space to pile in and let your second row get in range as well.

Similarly, if the warriors were to "wipe out" the guardman unit, the consolidate rule says they must move closer to the nearest enemy model, so even if the unit is wiped out they have to move up to 3" closer to the new closest enemy model?

That's right as well. Even if the closest enemy model is 20" away, they would have to move into that direction...or stay still.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 427

Re: Pile In

Post#3 » Aug 09 2017 09:57

Panzer wrote:That's right as well. Even if the closest enemy model is 20" away, they would have to move into that direction...or stay still.


Direction, no. Closer than 20", yes. You can still make a retreat or move forward or anything that brings your models closer to the guys 20" away.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Pile In

Post#4 » Aug 09 2017 10:02

Yojimbob wrote:
Panzer wrote:That's right as well. Even if the closest enemy model is 20" away, they would have to move into that direction...or stay still.


Direction, no. Closer than 20", yes. You can still make a retreat or move forward or anything that brings your models closer to the guys 20" away.

That's basically the same. When you end up being closer you go in the general direction towards them even if only by 1".

Wedrujacy
Shas'Saal
Posts: 61

Re: Pile In

Post#5 » Sep 11 2017 04:33

One additional question here.

I had a game recently with my friend and his DG unit won fight and killed pathfinder unit. Then as consolidation move he moved his DG unit in direction of vespids and finished it in less than 1" from stingwings.

Is that already allowed practice to block in combat other unit in consolidation?
As I understand if its allowed then only what could be done is to fall back?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2150

Re: Pile In

Post#6 » Sep 11 2017 06:39

Wedrujacy wrote:One additional question here.

I had a game recently with my friend and his DG unit won fight and killed pathfinder unit. Then as consolidation move he moved his DG unit in direction of vespids and finished it in less than 1" from stingwings.

Is that already allowed practice to block in combat other unit in consolidation?
As I understand if its allowed then only what could be done is to fall back?


That's legal, and a very powerful strategy for assault armies! For Tau, using the Fly keyword or Darkstrider's ability is a good way to prevent this from happening.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Pile In

Post#7 » Sep 12 2017 09:13

Wedrujacy wrote:One additional question here.

I had a game recently with my friend and his DG unit won fight and killed pathfinder unit. Then as consolidation move he moved his DG unit in direction of vespids and finished it in less than 1" from stingwings.

Is that already allowed practice to block in combat other unit in consolidation?
As I understand if its allowed then only what could be done is to fall back?

Yeah that's legal and even intended to be done. Only thing you can do about it is position yourself better before the melee happens or fall back in your next turn.

Keep in mind though that his DG unit can't attack your Vespid that turn as well since they already got activated once (Berzerker could with their second activation though!) however your Vespid can already attack that turn since they suddenly are in melee and you didn't activate them that turn yet.
Not that they are likely to do much damage, but there's always the occasional lucky dice.

Wedrujacy
Shas'Saal
Posts: 61

Re: Pile In

Post#8 » Sep 12 2017 02:36

Hmmm... That could be interesting.
Is there any rule that could be used to show other player that I'm already allowed to hit them when he will do so next time?

Ricordis
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 338

Re: Pile In

Post#9 » Sep 12 2017 04:04

I don't have my rulebook with me but doesn't the basic rules say you chose units in combat to fight until all units have fought?
If he consolidates (in the combat phase) into another unit I don't see why the combat phase should end before the new "contestant" could do his punch.
(It might be a new combat but it is still the same phase so no 2nd activation)

Turn it around:
If you punch your enemy and he has to remove so many models you lose melee range even after a 3" consolidation move your opponent loses his opportunity of hitting back because that unit is not eligible to be activated in the combat phase as it is not part of a combat anymore.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2150

Re: Pile In

Post#10 » Sep 12 2017 06:17

Wedrujacy wrote:Hmmm... That could be interesting.
Is there any rule that could be used to show other player that I'm already allowed to hit them when he will do so next time?

The rule that states that you only need to be within 1" (or within 1" of a model within 1") to participate in close combat.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Pile In

Post#11 » Sep 13 2017 06:18

Ricordis wrote:Turn it around:
If you punch your enemy and he has to remove so many models you lose melee range even after a 3" consolidation move your opponent loses his opportunity of hitting back because that unit is not eligible to be activated in the combat phase as it is not part of a combat anymore.

That's another important thing to keep in mind.
Unlikely to happen since the opponent can just remove models from the back instead, but units can get punched out of melee or away from objectives with enough casualties for sure!

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