RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
CelticBarbarian
Shas'Saal
Posts: 60

RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#1 » Aug 11 2017 06:41

Okay, we're all aware what the rulesfor Mont'Ka do for assault and regular ranged weapons. But... this might be a quirk of the rules that has been FAQ'd, but the rules specifically state that it allows them to move and advance "As if they hadn't moved this turn". Does this mean it can be used to negate the penalty for using heavy weapons?

DancinHobo
Shas
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#2 » Aug 11 2017 06:47

The rules say you can " advance and shoot as if you didn't move" so yes.

CelticBarbarian
Shas'Saal
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#3 » Aug 11 2017 06:58

Well that does help Commander Farsight a great deal...

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#4 » Aug 12 2017 05:41

It says, "advance and shoot as if you hadn't moved," not "advance and shoot as if you hadn't advanced."

So, feel free to move and shoot those Heavy weapons!

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#5 » Aug 12 2017 03:21

Arka0415 wrote:It says, "advance and shoot as if you hadn't moved," not "advance and shoot as if you hadn't advanced."

So, feel free to move and shoot those Heavy weapons!


I have a to agree. A FAQ would clear it up, but consider this. You roll for advance when you decide to move your unit. So it is movement + advance roll. Advancing is moving.

At the very least, it is telling you that if you "Advance, then shoot like you have stood still." If that means you have to move + advance to use this with heavy weapons, then do so.

Either way, I don't think anyone would bust chops on it.
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Yojimbob
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#6 » Aug 14 2017 07:36

It helps Farsight in that he can advance and fire his rapid fire weapon but sadly he cannot charge.

CelticBarbarian
Shas'Saal
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#7 » Aug 14 2017 03:58

Yojimbob wrote:It helps Farsight in that he can advance and fire his rapid fire weapon but sadly he cannot charge.


No.... it helps him because he can declare Mont'ka twice in a single battle and thus synergizes well with things like hammerheads or other heavy weapon users that can't take target lock.

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Arka0415
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#8 » Aug 14 2017 08:19

CelticBarbarian wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:It helps Farsight in that he can advance and fire his rapid fire weapon but sadly he cannot charge.


No.... it helps him because he can declare Mont'ka twice in a single battle and thus synergizes well with things like hammerheads or other heavy weapon users that can't take target lock.


Sure that's a form of synergy, but is it really worth it? Most Hammerheads do fine sitting where they are, and Farsight needs to make his way toward melee combat or else he's not going to be worth the high points cost. Tau backfield Heavy weapons are mediocre as-is, I wouldn't invest even more points unless I was also investing in more firepower at the same time.

For example, a Commander with 3 Missile Pods and ATS costs 5 more points than Farsight, provides the Master of War ability, and stays tactically-relevant by using long-range weapons (Missile Pods) and supporting the Hammerhead.

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Panzer
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#9 » Aug 14 2017 11:11

I agree with Arka here. Having Farsight babysit your Hammerheads or Broadside is wasting his points.

CelticBarbarian
Shas'Saal
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#10 » Aug 15 2017 07:32

Only if you're maintaining a static defense line. Sometimes you really need to move about the battlefield. Particularly if your enemy is deep striking behind your lines.

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Yojimbob
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#11 » Aug 15 2017 07:59

CelticBarbarian wrote:Only if you're maintaining a static defense line. Sometimes you really need to move about the battlefield. Particularly if your enemy is deep striking behind your lines.


Not seeing any scenario where you're taking Farsight, a mediocre choice to begin with, and then making him even less points efficient by either having him start on the board in the back lines(yuck) and then not be in the face of your opponent using him for the only thing he's actually good at; combat. I would say this tactic would be gimmicky at best since it's SOOO easy to deny Deepstrikes on your back line with all the extra pairs of drones and setup of your units. There's no REAL scenario you need to prepare for by having Farsight deepstrike into the back lines of your army to give his buff on units that already have plenty sufficient range and decent mobility without it. Just put 3 lights on your intended target and call it a day. 48 points worth of pathfinder lights vs 151 points worth of useless Farsight gimmick. I know what I choose.

CelticBarbarian
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#12 » Aug 15 2017 08:58

As I have stated before, Farsight's deepstriking strategies really help if you know how to use him. I'm not sure why you're so angry about my use of him, since he's more than made up his points for me several times over. It might not seem like a good idea to place him near hammerheads from the beginning, but there are times when you have to move them around the battlefield and your enemy can easily take out Pathfinders. It never hurts to have contingency strategies in place. Take that chip off your shoulder.

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Yojimbob
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#13 » Aug 15 2017 09:16

CelticBarbarian wrote:As I have stated before, Farsight's deepstriking strategies really help if you know how to use him. I'm not sure why you're so angry about my use of him, since he's more than made up his points for me several times over. It might not seem like a good idea to place him near hammerheads from the beginning, but there are times when you have to move them around the battlefield and your enemy can easily take out Pathfinders. It never hurts to have contingency strategies in place. Take that chip off your shoulder.


Definitely not angry. I don't want the more amatuer players to get bad ideas from people on these boards and take it as gospel. My point is you can outplay your opponent rather than relying on a gimmick from a subpar unit. Yes he looks sweet. I wish he was better and I used to run crisis suit Farsight bombs constantly but in this edition he's just not good enough. I feel like his gun needs to be more of a threat and shouldn't be the standard plasma rifle and I for one cannot wait to see what the Farsight Enclaves codex or reference section within our main codex holds in store for him.

CelticBarbarian
Shas'Saal
Posts: 60

Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#14 » Aug 15 2017 09:30

That's all well and good, but I still feel that you're wrong about him just being a gimmick. I've been able to make great use of him throughout all my 8e games. The problem is you're still thinking of him as a solo melee unit, and not taking advantage of his ability to use Mont'ka twice, the benefits in melee he gives to other commanders (slap an ATS on one for extra melee punch) , his anti-ork properties, his ability to not only tie up mooks in close combat but actually beat them in it, etc.

And no offense, but your advice has seemed a little biased and narrowly focused. Taking squads of 2 drones in a No Mercy or KP based game is still a terrible idea. ;)

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Yojimbob
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#15 » Aug 15 2017 09:51

CelticBarbarian wrote:That's all well and good, but I still feel that you're wrong about him just being a gimmick. I've been able to make great use of him throughout all my 8e games. The problem is you're still thinking of him as a solo melee unit, and not taking advantage of his ability to use Mont'ka twice, the benefits in melee he gives to other commanders (slap an ATS on one for extra melee punch) , his anti-ork properties, his ability to not only tie up mooks in close combat but actually beat them in it, etc.

And no offense, but your advice has seemed a little biased and narrowly focused. Taking squads of 2 drones in a No Mercy or KP based game is still a terrible idea. ;)

Again about drones, I never pick the mission before the list. 99 times out of 100 taking more drones is not only a good idea but a great one. Please don't fill people's heads with the idea that they are not when they are our single most points efficient unit in the game that are not only durable but take hits for other bigger things to keep them scary for longer.

CelticBarbarian
Shas'Saal
Posts: 60

Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#16 » Aug 15 2017 10:20

While our gun drones (and recently shield drones) are crucial, it makes a huge difference how you organize them. Tactical drone squads, or compiling them via Crisis suits (Especially with a Drone Controller) are how you should organize them if you're expecting that sort of game. Which the Fate of Konor has had for at least 2 weeks in a row, and if you're playing as part of it, which I am, then organizing your drones in squads of 2 is just asking for trouble. Plus against Ynnari that just gets even worse since they feed their ability to generate extra turns. God help you if you're playing under BOTH circumstances. Even with these circumstances aside, I like to organize them this way, since it makes them more accurate and makes them harder to kill off. Plus the larger squad size makes enemies more prone to dedicating their firepower entirely to taking them out.

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Yojimbob
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Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#17 » Aug 15 2017 12:17

CelticBarbarian wrote:While our gun drones (and recently shield drones) are crucial, it makes a huge difference how you organize them. Tactical drone squads, or compiling them via Crisis suits (Especially with a Drone Controller) are how you should organize them if you're expecting that sort of game. Which the Fate of Konor has had for at least 2 weeks in a row, and if you're playing as part of it, which I am, then organizing your drones in squads of 2 is just asking for trouble. Plus against Ynnari that just gets even worse since they feed their ability to generate extra turns. God help you if you're playing under BOTH circumstances. Even with these circumstances aside, I like to organize them this way, since it makes them more accurate and makes them harder to kill off. Plus the larger squad size makes enemies more prone to dedicating their firepower entirely to taking them out.


Your opponent is more likely to waste firepower on small squads than they are on large squads. Always is and always will be. That's why MSU is strong and is used competitively. Anyway, we're now off topic and should bring this back to Mont'ka.

CelticBarbarian
Shas'Saal
Posts: 60

Re: RAW, Mont'Ka and heavy weapons.

Post#18 » Aug 15 2017 02:14

Yojimbob wrote:Your opponent is more likely to waste firepower on small squads than they are on large squads. Always is and always will be. That's why MSU is strong and is used competitively. Anyway, we're now off topic and should bring this back to Mont'ka.


Not if they can divide their firepower between different units, which everyone in 8e can. MSU took a massive nerf this way.

As for the revelation of Mont'ka, I can't believe I forgot to mention things like Ghostkeels and Pathfinders. Yes I know you can just slap a target lock on the Ghostkeel, but these are still units that can benefit from it. Especially if you sunk your points into making your Ghostkeel a DISTRACTION.

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