Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

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Dark Hope
Gue'La
Gue'La
Posts: 99

Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#1 » Aug 22 2017 04:02

The question is; can attacks that do 1d6 (for example) mortal wounds be intercepted by a single drone and turned into just a single mortal wound? Personally I think I remember it saying somewhere that mortal wounds are always treated as separate instances of damage, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.
If kroot eat orks, doesn't that make them omvivores?

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MNGamer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#2 » Aug 22 2017 04:15

I believe the steps for savior protocol go as follows:
1. Roll to hit
2. Roll to wound
3. Allocate the wound to a nearby drone
4. The wound is turned into a single mortal wound regardless of its original damage
5. The drone takes a mortal wound
6. Shield drones may make a 5+ FNP

so if there was a weapon that did D6 mortal wound(as opposed to doing D6 damage)the drone could take a single wound instead in my interpretation. if i am wrong feel free to correct me :)
Even when broken, a sword may still cut~Aun'ko'vash

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 385

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#3 » Aug 22 2017 04:41

Dark Hope wrote: Personally I think I remember it saying somewhere that mortal wounds are always treated as separate instances of damage, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.


They say "each mortal wound causes one mortal damage", they also explain how overkill mortal damage is reallocated to another model, which wouldn't happen if each mortal wound(damage) would be a separate attack... So I'd say an attack that'd normally cause multiple mortal wounds is still one attack, and a single drone could take it thanks to the damage modifying rule.

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Silyen
Shas'Saal
Posts: 4

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#4 » Aug 22 2017 05:25

From my understanding, since Mortal Wounds happen one at a time, you have to allocate each single mortal wound to a drone. If it is a Shield Drone, you would then take the 5+. If passed, you can then allocate another wound to it. If it fails, the model is no longer there to have the wound allocated to the model.

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 385

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#5 » Aug 22 2017 05:50

Silyen wrote:From my understanding, since Mortal Wounds happen one at a time, you have to allocate each single mortal wound to a drone. If it is a Shield Drone, you would then take the 5+. If passed, you can then allocate another wound to it. If it fails, the model is no longer there to have the wound allocated to the model.


Nope...

5. Inflict Damage: The damage
inflicted is equal to the Damage
characteristic of the weapon used
in the attack. A model loses one
wound for each point of damage
it suffers. If a model’s wounds
are reduced to 0, it is either slain
or destroyed and removed from
play. If a model loses several
wounds from a single attack and
is destroyed, any excess damage
inflicted by that attack is lost and
has no effect.


Mortal Wounds
Some attacks inflict mortal wounds – these
are so powerful that no armour or force field
can withstand their fury. Each mortal wound
inflicts one point of damage on the target
unit. Do not make a wound roll or saving
throw (including invulnerable saves) against a
mortal wound – just allocate it as you would
any other wound and inflict damage to a
model in the target unit as described above.
Unlike normal attacks, excess damage from
attacks that inflict mortal wounds is not lost.
Instead keep allocating damage to another
model in the target unit until either all the
damage has been allocated or the target unit
is destroyed.


Attacks are resolved one a a time(including removing models as casualty), you'd have to explain how 1 damage could possibly be overkill.

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Blindeye
Shas'Saal
Posts: 88

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#6 » Aug 22 2017 05:56

The question is; can attacks that do 1d6 (for example) mortal wounds be intercepted by a single drone and turned into just a single mortal wound?


No, each mortal wound is a separate wound dealing 1 damage so each wound would need to be allocated to a different drone.

Two examples:

In example one a melta gun fires at hits and wounds a crisis suit inflicting a single wound that deals d6 damage. This wound is then intercepted by a gun drone within 3 inches of the crisis suit. The single melta gun inflicted wound deadling d6 damage is converted to a mortal wound that deals 1 damage ignoring all armor and invulnerable saves killing the drone.

In the second example a chaos sorcerer casts smite on a crisis suit rolling an 11 dealing d6 mortal wounds, then rolling a 5. The crisis suit takes 5 mortal wounds. The first mortal wound is allocated to a gun drone withing three inches of the crisis suit killing it. The second is allocated to a shield drone within three inches of the crisis suit and deals 1 damage. The Tau player then rolls for the FNP effect for the one inflicted damage rolling a 6 so the shield drone survives. The third mortal wound is then allocated to the same shield drone, this time the Tau player rolls a 4 so the drone dies. The final two mortal wounds are then allocated to the Crisis suit reducing it to 1 remaining wound.

Right now I don't believe there are any weapons that inflict mortal wounds where the wounds deal more then 1 damage each. In fact the rules for mortal wounds specifically state: "Each mortal wound inflicts one damage on the target unit" Pg. 256 this makes it seem like their won't be weapons that inflict mortal wounds that deal more then 1 damage. This last point is confused a bit by the end of the mortal wounds rule where it talks about excess damage overflowing which makes no sense for wounds that deal 1 damage each...
Through Unity Devastation.
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Dark Hope
Gue'La
Gue'La
Posts: 99

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#7 » Aug 22 2017 07:56

Silyen wrote:From my understanding, since Mortal Wounds happen one at a time, you have to allocate each single mortal wound to a drone. If it is a Shield Drone, you would then take the 5+. If passed, you can then allocate another wound to it. If it fails, the model is no longer there to have the wound allocated to the model.


Where does it say mortal wounds happen one at a time? Because that would clear this all up.
If kroot eat orks, doesn't that make them omvivores?

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MNGamer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 96

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#8 » Aug 22 2017 10:32

The weapon profile would read like:
S AP D Abilities
5 -2 D6 This weapon deals D6 damage, on a damage
roll of 3+ it does 3 mortal wounds in addition to the damage.
Because of savior protocol a drone would intercept this and take a single mortal wound because there is no damage roll when using savior protocol.
Even when broken, a sword may still cut~Aun'ko'vash

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#9 » Aug 22 2017 11:19

lways depends on the wording of the ability.
If it's a single (mortal) wound that does multiple damage you can let a Drone soak up all of it for a single mortal wound in return.
If it's an ability that deals multiple (mortal) wounds you would have to 'sacrifice' a Drone to each (mortal) wound.

MNGamer wrote:The weapon profile would read like:
S AP D Abilities
5 -2 D6 This weapon deals D6 damage, on a damage
roll of 3+ it does 3 mortal wounds in addition to the damage.
Because of savior protocol a drone would intercept this and take a single mortal wound because there is no damage roll when using savior protocol.

That's right, since the Drone already takes the wound and turns it into a mortal wound there won't be a damage roll and thus no possibility of rolling a 3+ for 3 additional mortal wounds.

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Dark Hope
Gue'La
Gue'La
Posts: 99

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#10 » Aug 23 2017 12:48

MNGamer wrote:The weapon profile would read like:
S AP D Abilities
5 -2 D6 This weapon deals D6 damage, on a damage
roll of 3+ it does 3 mortal wounds in addition to the damage.
Because of savior protocol a drone would intercept this and take a single mortal wound because there is no damage roll when using savior protocol.


The bonus mortal wounds are on the wound roll, not the damage roll.

So roll to hit, roll to wound, rolls a 6, rolls a 3 for bonus mortal wounds, allocates it to unit.
At this point is is considered 1, 2, or 4 wounds?
If kroot eat orks, doesn't that make them omvivores?

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MNGamer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 96

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#11 » Aug 23 2017 01:01

Dark Hope wrote:
MNGamer wrote:The weapon profile would read like:
S AP D Abilities
5 -2 D6 This weapon deals D6 damage, on a damage
roll of 3+ it does 3 mortal wounds in addition to the damage.
Because of savior protocol a drone would intercept this and take a single mortal wound because there is no damage roll when using savior protocol.


The bonus mortal wounds are on the wound roll, not the damage roll.

So roll to hit, roll to wound, rolls a 6, rolls a 3 for bonus mortal wounds, allocates it to unit.
At this point is is considered 1, 2, or 4 wounds?

In that instance there would be 4 separate wounds. I believe some weapons deal an additional mortal wound or become mortal wounds on a certain damage roll (eldar perhaps?).
Even when broken, a sword may still cut~Aun'ko'vash

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#12 » Aug 23 2017 01:04

Dark Hope wrote:
MNGamer wrote:The weapon profile would read like:
S AP D Abilities
5 -2 D6 This weapon deals D6 damage, on a damage
roll of 3+ it does 3 mortal wounds in addition to the damage.
Because of savior protocol a drone would intercept this and take a single mortal wound because there is no damage roll when using savior protocol.


The bonus mortal wounds are on the wound roll, not the damage roll.

So roll to hit, roll to wound, rolls a 6, rolls a 3 for bonus mortal wounds, allocates it to unit.
At this point is is considered 1, 2, or 4 wounds?

It would be 4 wounds in that case. The initial wound and the 3 additional mortal wounds.

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 385

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#13 » Aug 23 2017 06:59

Ghrb... So many people think it works this way, I'm about 99.5% sure it's still done as one resolved attack... How saviour protocol is handled with mortal wounds should really be in official FAQ.

Though I think this Q/A could help...

Q: If a weapon such as a rail rifle has an ability that can
inflict a mortal wound on the target in addition to the normal
damage, but the ‘normal damage’ is subsequently saved, does
the target still suffer the mortal wound?
A: Yes. Note that if the ‘normal damage’ was not saved,
the wound would be allocated on the target unit first
(and any resulting damage inflicted) before the mortal
wound was inflicted.


Notice how:
0a) - They use "mortal wound" to mean "1 mortal damage", anywhere and everywhere
0b) - "Inflict damage" and "allocate wounds" are specific steps of attack resolution
1) The word "allocate" is there only once, so is "the wound" as in the one multidamage wound from the one attack
2) "inflicted" is there twice, once for normal damage, second time for mortal damage, (while any mortal damage overkill is reallocated)

Also, I'm still waiting for explanation how 1 mortal damage, resolved as separate attack can ever cause "excess damage", maybe GW uses some "alternative math"?

(...ok, it could with macro weapons that cause mortal damage&titanic target unit with more than 1 model(does this exist?), but that probably wasn't the intention when writing basic ruleset.)

1ofmany
Shas'Saal
Posts: 22

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#14 » Aug 23 2017 08:17

And don't forget you allocating a wound to a drone...... Is allocating to an other unit........ You can not go back and forth with damage because the damage on the drone is on a other unit.

Thanks :)

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#15 » Aug 23 2017 08:36

1ofmany wrote:And don't forget you allocating a wound to a drone...... Is allocating to an other unit........ You can not go back and forth with damage because the damage on the drone is on a other unit.

Thanks :)

Which is a non-issue since the whole damage of the wound gets turned into a single mortal wound anyway even if it would do 1d6 damage originally. ;)

pilky
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 249

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#16 » Aug 23 2017 08:48

MNGamer wrote:I believe the steps for savior protocol go as follows:
1. Roll to hit
2. Roll to wound
3. Allocate the wound to a nearby drone
4. The wound is turned into a single mortal wound regardless of its original damage
5. The drone takes a mortal wound
6. Shield drones may make a 5+ FNP

so if there was a weapon that did D6 mortal wound(as opposed to doing D6 damage)the drone could take a single wound instead in my interpretation. if i am wrong feel free to correct me :)


One minor thing in respect to the steps, remember that between Step 2 and 3 you get to make your save (if you have one). The FAQd rule says "successfully wounds", so it has to get through your save first

1ofmany
Shas'Saal
Posts: 22

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#17 » Aug 23 2017 08:59

@Panzer,
Let say a rail cannon shots at a unit suits.... ( would never happen I know ;) )

Rols a 6 to wound so in addition to d6 damage you get d3 mortal wounds.

So I played so fare that the wound go to the drone unit. the drone saves the regular d6 and then that unit of drones stil need to resolve the D3 mortal wounds. did I do it wrong?


Thanks

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 385

Re: Savior Protocols and multiple mortal wound attacks

Post#18 » Aug 23 2017 09:03

pilky wrote:
One minor thing in respect to the steps, remember that between Step 2 and 3 you get to make your save (if you have one). The FAQd rule says "successfully wounds", so it has to get through your save first


Nope, "successfully wounds" means rolling "to wound" successfully (or skiping this step in case of mortal w.) Do not confuse it with "when a model loses a wound"/"when a model suffers a wound". You make saves after a wound is allocated, and in the case of saviour protocol, you don't, because it's changed to mortal wound. There are no armour/invul saves rolled when transfering the wound via saviour protocol, not on the target unit, not on drones unit.

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