About the fortifications

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
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Studioworks
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About the fortifications

Post#1 » Sep 26 2017 10:32

Tomorrow I play against Ultramarines. We will play the Planetfall mission in which there is fortifications. I just have a couple of questions:
1. Does the defender need to pay the points for all the fortifications he put on the table (I suppose yes).
2. What exactly is "Defence emplacements" and how many points the defender needs to pay for them?

Thanks and wish me luck :)

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: About the fortifications

Post#2 » Sep 26 2017 06:42

Studioworks wrote:1. Does the defender need to pay the points for all the fortifications he put on the table (I suppose yes).

If the defender buys them and puts them on his side of the table, then he would need to pay for them. HOWEVER, if the fortifications are placed on both sides of the table before deployment zones have been decided (i.e. either player could take either side) then neither player pays for any fortifications- they're just treated as terrain. If for whatever reason one player gets all the fortifications and doesn't pay for them, it's an unbalanced game- expect an uphill battle.

Studioworks wrote:2. What exactly is "Defence emplacements" and how many points the defender needs to pay for them?

A Defense Emplacement is a small, self-contained defensive trench that acts as a small defense point; while it can connect to other trenches (the Defense Line) it doesn't necessarily need to. It's main function is that the Defense Emplacement can hold Imperial Guard Heavy Weapons Teams, whereas a Defense Line cannot. You can buy up to 3 Defense Emplacements for 85 points. Units in a Defense Emplacement get +1LD, +1Sv (due to being in cover) and can attack enemy models within 2" (rather than within 1") when in close combat.

Wedrujacy
Shas'Saal
Posts: 58

Re: About the fortifications

Post#3 » Sep 27 2017 07:18

Arka0415 wrote:
Studioworks wrote:2. What exactly is "Defence emplacements" and how many points the defender needs to pay for them?

A Defense Emplacement is a small, self-contained defensive trench that acts as a small defense point; while it can connect to other trenches (the Defense Line) it doesn't necessarily need to. It's main function is that the Defense Emplacement can hold Imperial Guard Heavy Weapons Teams, whereas a Defense Line cannot. You can buy up to 3 Defense Emplacements for 85 points. Units in a Defense Emplacement get +1LD, +1Sv (due to being in cover) and can attack enemy models within 2" (rather than within 1") when in close combat.


Does our tidewall parts count as Defence Emplacement and so will also get +1 Ld and Sv?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
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Re: About the fortifications

Post#4 » Sep 27 2017 09:21

Wedrujacy wrote:Does our tidewall parts count as Defence Emplacement and so will also get +1 Ld and Sv?

Our Tidewalls are totally different- units on them count as being embarked in a vehicle. The vehicle has its own statline (toughness, save, etc), can move, can be targeted like any other vehicle, and reflects wounds when it makes armor saves on 6+. It's a strange little thing, and very different from the Imperial Defense Emplacement!

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Panzer
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Re: About the fortifications

Post#5 » Sep 27 2017 09:35

Yeah the Tidewall is a Tidewall and the Defence Emplacement is a Defence Emplacement. Two different units. ;)

Wedrujacy
Shas'Saal
Posts: 58

Re: About the fortifications

Post#6 » Sep 28 2017 11:56

Ok, for sure they are not exactly the same but my question was in direction if they are same as per receiving +1Ld and +1Sv or they have just +1Sv for "embarked" units.

To be honest nowhere I can't find out rule which will define how big benefit to cover will get our units beeing on/in :)

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CDR_Farsight
Shas'Saal
Posts: 113

Re: About the fortifications

Post#7 » Sep 28 2017 12:14

There is no leadership modifier for our Tidewalls nor are there any save modifiers because you cannot shoot at units embarked in a vehicle. You must destroy the Tidewall before you can engage the troops embarked.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

Wedrujacy
Shas'Saal
Posts: 58

Re: About the fortifications

Post#8 » Sep 28 2017 12:37

CDR_Farsight wrote:There is no leadership modifier for our Tidewalls nor are there any save modifiers because you cannot shoot at units embarked in a vehicle. You must destroy the Tidewall before you can engage the troops embarked.

Ouuuuu :eek:
Then I need to take out my shildline form shelf and read rules again :evil:

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: About the fortifications

Post#9 » Sep 28 2017 07:07

Wedrujacy wrote:Ok, for sure they are not exactly the same but my question was in direction if they are same as per receiving +1Ld and +1Sv or they have just +1Sv for "embarked" units.

To be honest nowhere I can't find out rule which will define how big benefit to cover will get our units beeing on/in :)


Those modifiers are only for the Defense Line/Defense Emplacement. The Defense Line and Defense Emplacement aren't templates for defensive fortifications or something like that, they're specific models with specific rules.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 218

Re: About the fortifications

Post#10 » Oct 11 2017 10:04

Since fortifications are in there own separate dettachments, my question is can you start a game with units embarked on them? I ask this because I don't know if embarking units need to be in same dettachment or not. I don't see any rules saying yes or no, so I'm assuming it's perfectly fine. but I'm asking to double check.

I ask because I want to apply this logic to a devilfish which I'm assuming could pul HQs to embark from other dettachments its not in.

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Ghostly Daemon
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Re: About the fortifications

Post#11 » Oct 12 2017 04:33

Lostroninsoul wrote:Since fortifications are in there own separate dettachments, my question is can you start a game with units embarked on them? I ask this because I don't know if embarking units need to be in same dettachment or not. I don't see any rules saying yes or no, so I'm assuming it's perfectly fine. but I'm asking to double check.

I ask because I want to apply this logic to a devilfish which I'm assuming could pul HQs to embark from other dettachments its not in.


You can start the game with unit embarked, but it costs a deployment "move" to actually embark them, as opposed to a dedicated transport like a Devilfish which is deployed with the unit already inside it.
:fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :evil:

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Panzer
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Re: About the fortifications

Post#12 » Oct 12 2017 05:09

Ghostly Daemon wrote:
Lostroninsoul wrote:Since fortifications are in there own separate dettachments, my question is can you start a game with units embarked on them? I ask this because I don't know if embarking units need to be in same dettachment or not. I don't see any rules saying yes or no, so I'm assuming it's perfectly fine. but I'm asking to double check.

I ask because I want to apply this logic to a devilfish which I'm assuming could pul HQs to embark from other dettachments its not in.


You can start the game with unit embarked, but it costs a deployment "move" to actually embark them, as opposed to a dedicated transport like a Devilfish which is deployed with the unit already inside it.

Not true.
Check the Transports box on page 183. It doesn't differenciate between dedicated transports and non-dedicated transports. You can select any unit that's allowed to embark as being embarked when you set up the transport.

The only difference between dedicated transports and other transports is that regular transports use up FOC slots while dedicated transports you can take as many as you have units (of any kind) in your detachment.


@Lostroninsoul
Doesn't matter. As long as a unit is allowed to embark on that transport (right unit keywords) you can have them inside the transport when set it up.

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Ghostly Daemon
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Re: About the fortifications

Post#13 » Oct 12 2017 05:55

Panzer wrote:Not true.
Check the Transports box on page 183. It doesn't differenciate between dedicated transports and non-dedicated transports. You can select any unit that's allowed to embark as being embarked when you set up the transport.

The only difference between dedicated transports and other transports is that regular transports use up FOC slots while dedicated transports you can take as many as you have units (of any kind) in your detachment.


Oh good spot! That's going to make a tonne of difference in my games, I'm quite partial to taking a Droneport after all :evil:
:fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :evil:

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