Rerolls and modifiers

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
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El'mo
Shas'El
Shas'El
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Re: Rerolls and modifiers

Post#73 » Oct 09 2017 12:16

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
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Re: Rerolls and modifiers

Post#74 » Oct 11 2017 06:00

Panzer wrote:The one who wrote the article also makes the same assumption as most players do currently to make GWs FAQ work with their Core rules.
That you have to check for success before applying modifier as well as after. Again, that's nowhere stated in the Core rules or FAQ but unless you do that their FAQ doesn't work with "re-roll failed rolls" abilities.
Which was my point all the time. GW nowhere says we have to do that, it's just what we do to make two pieces of their rules work. It's a bandaid. Hence why I wish GW would stop ignoring that problem and address it in their FAQ/Errata...or at least on facebook but even there they keep quiet.

I've reread this a couple times to make sure I am best undertsanding you. It seems your issue is that there is an assumption of a "double check for failed hit rolls" when it's not in any rules from gw and conflicts directly with the rules "You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’" because a second check is doing exactly that. Am I understanding your issue correctly?

For convenience here are some of the rules in effect

July 2017 FAQ page 1: ERRATA
Page 178 – Re-rolls
Change this paragraph to read:
‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again. You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’

Per page 181 of the hard cover rule book under Resolve Attacks: " 1. Hit Roll: Each time a model makes an attack , roll a dice . If the roll is equal to or greater than the attacking model's Ballistic Skill characteristic, then it scores a hit with the weapon it is using. If not, the attacks fails and the attack sequence ends. A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers."


I think the issue for a second check isn't an issue with the core rules at all. I think it stems from abilities that allows you to have said re-roll of a failed hit and overriding core rules. If it's an ability rule, then it should allow you to override core rules. If ability rules aren't allowed to override certain rules when applicable then abilities like "fighting retreat" on Darkstrider wouldn't be a valid ability. I'll have to check the rules to see if they say abilities can override core rules. I play magic the gathering and they have an ability can override rules clause there, so it's possible I maybe falsely assuming Warhammer 40k has something similar to that. I'll look into it :).
Absolute worst case scenario GW gave us the most important rule on page 180.

Dekifelipe
Shas
Posts: 13

Re: Rerolls and modifiers

Post#75 » Nov 04 2017 03:33

Hi, a question! If you fire at something that has 1 markerlight which gives you ability to reroll 1s to hit and you also have ethereal near who also allows to reroll 1s to hit does it mean that you can reroll 1s from ethereal and after that if there are more 1s you could also reroll further 1s if any becouse of markerlighr?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
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Re: Rerolls and modifiers

Post#76 » Nov 04 2017 03:55

Darkfelipe wrote:If you fire at something that has 1 markerlight which gives you ability to reroll 1s to hit and you also have ethereal near who also allows to reroll 1s to hit does it mean that you can reroll 1s from ethereal and after that if there are more 1s you could also reroll further 1s if any becouse of markerlighr?

You can only re-roll a dice once. So, even if you have two abilities that let you re-roll 1s, you can only ever use one ability. So, the abilities "do not stack," so to speak.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Rerolls and modifiers

Post#77 » Nov 04 2017 06:22

Arka0415 wrote:
Darkfelipe wrote:If you fire at something that has 1 markerlight which gives you ability to reroll 1s to hit and you also have ethereal near who also allows to reroll 1s to hit does it mean that you can reroll 1s from ethereal and after that if there are more 1s you could also reroll further 1s if any becouse of markerlighr?

You can only re-roll a dice once. So, even if you have two abilities that let you re-roll 1s, you can only ever use one ability. So, the abilities "do not stack," so to speak.


Though you can put the ethereal next to your pathfinders to give them reroll 1's to get that first markerlight on a target.

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Panzer
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Posts: 3548

Re: Rerolls and modifiers

Post#78 » Nov 04 2017 06:35

Nymphomanius wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Darkfelipe wrote:If you fire at something that has 1 markerlight which gives you ability to reroll 1s to hit and you also have ethereal near who also allows to reroll 1s to hit does it mean that you can reroll 1s from ethereal and after that if there are more 1s you could also reroll further 1s if any becouse of markerlighr?

You can only re-roll a dice once. So, even if you have two abilities that let you re-roll 1s, you can only ever use one ability. So, the abilities "do not stack," so to speak.


Though you can put the ethereal next to your pathfinders to give them reroll 1's to get that first markerlight on a target.

That's definitely possible but for those points you could just take 5 more Pathfinder which should be able to achieve the same thing.
Keep in mind you should always roll the Markerlights in a unit one by one until you get the first hit so the rest benefits from that hits re-roll 1s bonus. ;)

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Studioworks
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Posts: 135

Re: Rerolls and modifiers

Post#79 » Nov 04 2017 09:51

Panzer wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:You can only re-roll a dice once. So, even if you have two abilities that let you re-roll 1s, you can only ever use one ability. So, the abilities "do not stack," so to speak.


Though you can put the ethereal next to your pathfinders to give them reroll 1's to get that first markerlight on a target.

That's definitely possible but for those points you could just take 5 more Pathfinder which should be able to achieve the same thing.
Keep in mind you should always roll the Markerlights in a unit one by one until you get the first hit so the rest benefits from that hits re-roll 1s bonus. ;)


And until the 3rd if you moved :)

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Rerolls and modifiers

Post#80 » Nov 04 2017 01:14

Studioworks wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
Though you can put the ethereal next to your pathfinders to give them reroll 1's to get that first markerlight on a target.

That's definitely possible but for those points you could just take 5 more Pathfinder which should be able to achieve the same thing.
Keep in mind you should always roll the Markerlights in a unit one by one until you get the first hit so the rest benefits from that hits re-roll 1s bonus. ;)


And until the 3rd if you moved :)

Yeah but if you hit the first you can then roll two until you get one or two more hits. :P

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Bloodknife92
Shas'La
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Re: Rerolls and modifiers

Post#81 » Nov 04 2017 10:12

Panzer wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:You can only re-roll a dice once. So, even if you have two abilities that let you re-roll 1s, you can only ever use one ability. So, the abilities "do not stack," so to speak.


Though you can put the ethereal next to your pathfinders to give them reroll 1's to get that first markerlight on a target.

That's definitely possible but for those points you could just take 5 more Pathfinder which should be able to achieve the same thing.
Keep in mind you should always roll the Markerlights in a unit one by one until you get the first hit so the rest benefits from that hits re-roll 1s bonus. ;)

For the same points, yes, you could take 5 more Pathfinders and get the same bonus, but you'll be losing so much more, like the awesome Ld for example. Ethereals are worth so much more than re-rolling 1s :)
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Panzer
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Re: Rerolls and modifiers

Post#82 » Nov 05 2017 04:46

Bloodknife92 wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
Though you can put the ethereal next to your pathfinders to give them reroll 1's to get that first markerlight on a target.

That's definitely possible but for those points you could just take 5 more Pathfinder which should be able to achieve the same thing.
Keep in mind you should always roll the Markerlights in a unit one by one until you get the first hit so the rest benefits from that hits re-roll 1s bonus. ;)

For the same points, yes, you could take 5 more Pathfinders and get the same bonus, but you'll be losing so much more, like the awesome Ld for example. Ethereals are worth so much more than re-rolling 1s :)

You only really need that LD buff when you play with big units though. With something like Battlesuits and MSU Pathfinder you won't need it.

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