Vertical charging

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#19 » Oct 24 2017 07:56

I know it was a thing in AoS where it (somewhere) was adressed that you can use the wobbly model syndrom rule to indicate that a model is half way up a wall if it couldn't reach it in 1 go.

Now I know AoS isn't 40k, but it doesn't differ much between the systems and I can see from a gameplay standpoint that it can be used like this, even if it is to counter impervious units on buildings.

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Panzer
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#20 » Oct 24 2017 08:04

Yeah as you said that's AoS. 40k and AoS got more similar but there are still quite some differences. This is one of them.

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ErSe0831
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#21 » Feb 02 2018 09:52

Sorry for bringing up an old subject like this but I found myself checking the FAQ's and googling the issue. There still haven't been any official reply on what goes, right?

How are people playing this now that some time have passed. The RAW is that a platform filled with units are basically un-chargeable?


Edit2: Nope, the spoiler below was actually FAQ for the 7th edition, question above still stands, sorry for the confusion!

Edit1:
Spoiler!
Nevermind I actually found it...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/22/warhammer-40000-rulebook-final-faq/ wrote:Q: How do you handle situations where you are attempting to charge a model that is on top of something, where there is no room for a model to be in base contact?
A: The ‘Wobbly Model Syndrome’ rule applies – place the model as near as possible, and keep a note of its actual position. It is assumed to be in base contact with the other model.

Kerrygan
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#22 » Feb 02 2018 10:17

ErSe0831 wrote:Sorry for bringing up an old subject like this but I found myself checking the FAQ's and googling the issue. There still haven't been any official reply on what goes, right?

How are people playing this now that some time have passed. The RAW is that a platform filled with units are basically un-chargeable?

Nevermind I actually found it...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/22/warhammer-40000-rulebook-final-faq/ wrote:Q: How do you handle situations where you are attempting to charge a model that is on top of something, where there is no room for a model to be in base contact?
A: The ‘Wobbly Model Syndrome’ rule applies – place the model as near as possible, and keep a note of its actual position. It is assumed to be in base contact with the other model.


What!!???
This is saying that if a unit is fully occupying the roof of a building, then it can be charged!!????
So why in others situation that is now what happens?
What happens with all the "if the model cannot be placed then it's slain" (disembarking, others abilities).

In my group we are playing that if there is no room, then the unit cannot be charged.
I don't know, make sense to us.

I'm shocked.
In fact, this situation happen often in our games.

EDIT: I was ninjaed for the edit. Haha.
(I read this, post, and then the edit appears).
Well... I want to know now!

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ErSe0831
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#23 » Feb 02 2018 10:29

Kerrygan wrote:EDIT: I was ninjaed for the edit. Haha.
(I read this, post, and then the edit appears).
Well... I want to know now!


Haha, yeah sorry about that, I really should pay more attention to dates of FAQs in the future :)

Sonnenkoenig
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#24 » Feb 02 2018 12:09

So...Let´s assume I´ve got my Y´Vahra standing on a 6" tower´s rooftop and it´s impossible for anything to be positioned in 1" around it. My opponent´s models CAN successfully charge my Y´Vahra, when they are on ground floor level and the vertical distance is still 6+""? Guess the answer is a "Yes" according to the FAQ...

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ErSe0831
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#25 » Feb 02 2018 01:35

Sonnenkoenig wrote:So...Let´s assume I´ve got my Y´Vahra standing on a 6" tower´s rooftop and it´s impossible for anything to be positioned in 1" around it. My opponent´s models CAN successfully charge my Y´Vahra, when they are on ground floor level and the vertical distance is still 6+""? Guess the answer is a "Yes" according to the FAQ...


Well, the FAQ I quoted was for 7th edition, sorry about that. As far as I can tell there's no answer from GW but I'd wager they will take the same approach as last time :?

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Strawless
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#26 » Feb 02 2018 03:30

There's still one FAQ piece that's unquoted in this thread..

Q: What happens when an Infantry model cannot
completely end its move on a floor of ruins when
attempting to scale the walls?

A: If an Infantry model is unable to complete a move
to a stable position, use the Wobbly Model Syndrome
guidelines in the core rules to identify with your
opponent where your model’s actual location is.

It's from "Stepping into a new edition of Warhammer 40k".
My group uses this to permit any and all movement across terrain, basically allowing any INFANTRY model to fight while scaling the walls.

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Osocruel
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#27 » Feb 03 2018 05:26

Sonnenkoenig wrote:So...Let´s assume I´ve got my Y´Vahra standing on a 6" tower´s rooftop and it´s impossible for anything to be positioned in 1" around it. My opponent´s models CAN successfully charge my Y´Vahra, when they are on ground floor level and the vertical distance is still 6+""? Guess the answer is a "Yes" according to the FAQ...


How does your Y'vahra stand on a 6" roof top? ;)

Kerrygan
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#28 » Feb 03 2018 07:38

Osocruel wrote:
Sonnenkoenig wrote:So...Let´s assume I´ve got my Y´Vahra standing on a 6" tower´s rooftop and it´s impossible for anything to be positioned in 1" around it. My opponent´s models CAN successfully charge my Y´Vahra, when they are on ground floor level and the vertical distance is still 6+""? Guess the answer is a "Yes" according to the FAQ...


How does your Y'vahra stand on a 6" roof top? ;)


With their legs?
With much awesome-ness?
Like an angel of damnation?

What are you meaning with "How"?

Kerrygan
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#29 » Feb 03 2018 07:44

Strawless wrote:There's still one FAQ piece that's unquoted in this thread..

Q: What happens when an Infantry model cannot
completely end its move on a floor of ruins when
attempting to scale the walls?

A: If an Infantry model is unable to complete a move
to a stable position, use the Wobbly Model Syndrome
guidelines in the core rules to identify with your
opponent where your model’s actual location is.

It's from "Stepping into a new edition of Warhammer 40k".
My group uses this to permit any and all movement across terrain, basically allowing any INFANTRY model to fight while scaling the walls.


Ok, so the units can stay in the middle of nothing, I.e. in a completely vertical wall, fighting?
Also, we can deploy units whatever we want in a ruin?
I mean, if I have a ruin in my deployment zone, can I use the Wobbly Syndrome to deploy an entire unit "hanging" from the wall, giving them cover and a nice spot to fire?

Sonnenkoenig
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#30 » Feb 03 2018 08:09

"It's from "Stepping into a new edition of Warhammer 40k".
My group uses this to permit any and all movement across terrain, basically allowing any INFANTRY model to fight while scaling the walls."

Alright...I see. But there should be an advantage of some kind then for a model that´s on top and if the enemy´s charging whilst "climbing the walls".

"I´ve got the high ground Anakin!!!" We all remember what happened then... :dead:

It´s more than completely irrational to fight a model that´s standing on a 6" rooftop successfully either from the ground or while climbing the walls... in cc!! :P

Kerrygan
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#31 » Feb 03 2018 12:04

Arka0415 wrote:Arkamon:

Type: Physic
Weakness: Earth
Power: Over 9000



Arkamon, I choose you!

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Osocruel
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#32 » Feb 03 2018 05:52

Kerrygan wrote:
Osocruel wrote:
Sonnenkoenig wrote:So...Let´s assume I´ve got my Y´Vahra standing on a 6" tower´s rooftop and it´s impossible for anything to be positioned in 1" around it. My opponent´s models CAN successfully charge my Y´Vahra, when they are on ground floor level and the vertical distance is still 6+""? Guess the answer is a "Yes" according to the FAQ...


How does your Y'vahra stand on a 6" roof top? ;)


With their legs?
With much awesome-ness?
Like an angel of damnation?

What are you meaning with "How"?


Lol. It has the monster keyword, so doesn't that mean ground floor only?

Kerrygan
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#33 » Feb 03 2018 09:55

Osocruel wrote:
Kerrygan wrote:
Osocruel wrote:
How does your Y'vahra stand on a 6" roof top? ;)


With their legs?
With much awesome-ness?
Like an angel of damnation?

What are you meaning with "How"?


Lol. It has the monster keyword, so doesn't that mean ground floor only?


She has the Fly keyword too.

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Arka0415
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#34 » Feb 03 2018 10:09

Kerrygan wrote:She has the Fly keyword too.

If the Y'vahra tried to land on designated multi-level ruins, it would only be able to land on the ground floor, if it fit. If the terrain was just designated as generic terrain, the Y'vahra could definitely land on top.

-

Kerrygan wrote:Ok, so the units can stay in the middle of nothing, I.e. in a completely vertical wall, fighting?
Also, we can deploy units whatever we want in a ruin?
I mean, if I have a ruin in my deployment zone, can I use the Wobbly Syndrome to deploy an entire unit "hanging" from the wall, giving them cover and a nice spot to fire?

Not quite. "Wobby Model Syndrome" allows you to avoid damage to your models. It does not allow you to place models where they physically cannot go. For example, a model physically cannot be placed on a vertical surface, so "Wobby Model Syndrome" does not help. However, a model standing very close to a ledge might be dangerous, or make you worry about the safety of your model, so you could place it further away from that edge by using "Wobby Model Syndrome".

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Osocruel
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#35 » Feb 04 2018 03:13

Arka0415 wrote:
Kerrygan wrote:She has the Fly keyword too.

If the Y'vahra tried to land on designated multi-level ruins, it would only be able to land on the ground floor, if it fit. If the terrain was just designated as generic terrain, the Y'vahra could definitely land on top.


Fly allows to fall back and shoot in the same turn and it allows you to move over terrain as if it we're not there. I think Arka is saying Y'vahra could only have that height advantage on the edge of a cliff or if that rooftop was emerging from said cliff? :-?

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Arka0415
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Re: Vertical charging

Post#36 » Feb 04 2018 03:46

Osocruel wrote:I think Arka is saying Y'vahra could only have that height advantage on the edge of a cliff or if that rooftop was emerging from said cliff? :-?

Basically, yeah! The rule is intended to describe the fact that large monsters and vehicles like Carnifexes, Leman Russes, and Greater Daemons simply cannot stand on top of an old, crumbly ruin. Only small light infantry units can do that. Were a Y'vahra to jump on top of a ruin, it would probably crash through.

So the Y'vahra can totally stand on top of hills, cliffs, and other terrain features. However, it probably couldn't perch on top of a traditional 40k ruin.


Edit: The "Fly" keyword makes an exception to the rule- flying monsters and vehicles can in fact land on top of buildings and ruins!

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