Vertical charging

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
Sonnenkoenig
Shas'Saal
Posts: 38

Re: Vertical charging

Post#37 » Feb 04 2018 05:36

Everything that has the “fly“ keyword can be positioned on a building's rooftop-if it is physically possible. You may even deploy Hammerheads on a building. The comparison with Carnifexes and Leman Russes is not viable, since they do not have the “fly“ keyword. Play it as you want (this is NO criticism or sarcasm!!), but this is ETC standard of rules and this is how it's played correctly. If you have any problems, just substitute the Yvie with a Crisis or somerhing else.
The initial question was about charging a model that is standing on a 6+“ building and that it is impossible to bring any model within 1“ physically.

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3145

Re: Vertical charging

Post#38 » Feb 04 2018 05:55

Sonnenkoenig wrote:Everything that has the “fly“ keyword can be positioned on a building's rooftop-if it is physically possible. You may even deploy Hammerheads on a building. The comparison with Carnifexes and Leman Russes is not viable, since they do not have the “fly“ keyword.

Gotcha, thanks for pointing that out. I just checked the ruling. The fly keyword gives an exemption to the monster/vehicle rule, so no issue there!

Sonnenkoenig wrote:The initial question was about charging a model that is standing on a 6+“ building and that it is impossible to bring any model within 1“ physically.

If a model cannot be physically placed, then no matter what it cannot be placed there. It's "wobbly model syndrome", not "impossible model syndrome" :D

Sonnenkoenig
Shas'Saal
Posts: 38

Re: Vertical charging

Post#39 » Feb 04 2018 05:58

Gotcha! It would have been a great tactical advantage for us, if we were unchargeable like that... ;)

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3145

Re: Vertical charging

Post#40 » Feb 04 2018 06:13

Sonnenkoenig wrote:Gotcha! It would have been a great tactical advantage for us, if we were unchargeable like that... ;)

It is a great advantage- it is possible to make a unit on top of a building un-chargeable. However, if even one enemy model can sneak its way on top of the building, that unit can make attacks in the fight phase.

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Osocruel
Shas
Posts: 30

Re: Vertical charging

Post#41 » Feb 04 2018 07:56

Sonnenkoenig wrote:Everything that has the “fly“ keyword can be positioned on a building's rooftop-if it is physically possible. You may even deploy Hammerheads on a building. The comparison with Carnifexes and Leman Russes is not viable, since they do not have the “fly“ keyword.


Apologise, "unless they can fly." Re- read the rule. Thanks for clearing it up. I had that one wrong.

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ErSe0831
Shas'Saal
Posts: 64

Re: Vertical charging

Post#42 » Feb 04 2018 08:08

Arka0415 wrote:If a model cannot be physically placed, then no matter what it cannot be placed there. It's "wobbly model syndrome", not "impossible model syndrome" :D


Good description of the rule, will definitely use this argument if the subject comes up, as I'm sure it will.

I have found that some players, with a lot of melee-oriented units, become rather upset when they are denied a brawl. I mean it's not like anyone's playing undead here, there's ranged weapons in every army just bring a unit or two :P

Kerrygan
Shas'Saal
Posts: 118

Re: Vertical charging

Post#43 » Feb 04 2018 08:19

Strawless wrote:There's still one FAQ piece that's unquoted in this thread..

Q: What happens when an Infantry model cannot
completely end its move on a floor of ruins when
attempting to scale the walls?

A: If an Infantry model is unable to complete a move
to a stable position, use the Wobbly Model Syndrome
guidelines in the core rules to identify with your
opponent where your model’s actual location is.

It's from "Stepping into a new edition of Warhammer 40k".
My group uses this to permit any and all movement across terrain, basically allowing any INFANTRY model to fight while scaling the walls.


Arka, but what happens with this, then..?

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steelmanf
Shas'Saal
Posts: 42

Re: Vertical charging

Post#44 » Feb 04 2018 11:48

ErSe0831 wrote:I have found that some players, with a lot of melee-oriented units, become rather upset when they are denied a brawl. I mean it's not like anyone's playing undead here, there's ranged weapons in every army just bring a unit or two :P


*quietly puts away Pox Walker spam army...*

Nothing to see here :P

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3145

Re: Vertical charging

Post#45 » Feb 04 2018 06:44

Kerrygan wrote:
Strawless wrote:There's still one FAQ piece that's unquoted in this thread..

Q: What happens when an Infantry model cannot
completely end its move on a floor of ruins when
attempting to scale the walls?

A: If an Infantry model is unable to complete a move
to a stable position, use the Wobbly Model Syndrome
guidelines in the core rules to identify with your
opponent where your model’s actual location is.

It's from "Stepping into a new edition of Warhammer 40k".
My group uses this to permit any and all movement across terrain, basically allowing any INFANTRY model to fight while scaling the walls.


Arka, but what happens with this, then..?

This is about being "unable to completely end its move", i.e., there isn't quite enough space to place the model on the floor of the ruin. I still haven't seen evidence that a model could be placed in a vertical position, like ending its move while scaling a wall.

fraction64
Shas'Saal
Posts: 206

Re: Vertical charging

Post#46 » Feb 06 2018 11:34

Arka0415 wrote:
Kerrygan wrote:
Strawless wrote:There's still one FAQ piece that's unquoted in this thread..

Q: What happens when an Infantry model cannot
completely end its move on a floor of ruins when
attempting to scale the walls?

A: If an Infantry model is unable to complete a move
to a stable position, use the Wobbly Model Syndrome
guidelines in the core rules to identify with your
opponent where your model’s actual location is.

It's from "Stepping into a new edition of Warhammer 40k".
My group uses this to permit any and all movement across terrain, basically allowing any INFANTRY model to fight while scaling the walls.


Arka, but what happens with this, then..?

This is about being "unable to completely end its move", i.e., there isn't quite enough space to place the model on the floor of the ruin. I still haven't seen evidence that a model could be placed in a vertical position, like ending its move while scaling a wall.

This has to apply to this situation. The only way a unit of infantry couldn't be placed while scaling a verticle wall would be because they are at the lip of the floor or still on the wall. Plus there are units that don't have the movement to make it up one floor so they have to sit part way up a wall and wait till next movement phase.
It's hard to view this ruling as anything but infantry being able to end their move on vertical terrain.
Also with circle bases it would be almost impossible for infantry squads to have zero floor space on a top floor as even by your standards if even a small patch of floor in available then wobbly model works. Though I believe that the wall also works.
Remember that all of this is heavily abstracted so imagine units actually climbing things (remember all of this is only talking about infantry) and when a melee happens people actually moving around and fighting, not just a static line staring down as people stab at their feet.
We should also remember that GW has a history of allowing fights to occur between floors all throughout previous editions of this game.

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