50% Obscured and Cover

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
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Bloodknife92
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 589

Re: 50% Obscured and Cover

Post#19 » Oct 18 2017 01:57

n1md4 wrote:
Panzer wrote:Sorry but that's not how english works, n1md4.


Damn yooou Ennglish! I'll stand over there ---> corrected.


This is the best response I've ever read lol.

I will continue to state that my issue is: A vehicle or monster will get a cover save if obscured by terrain, and standing in it, yes, but won't get a cover save if the same amount of the model is obacured but the model is not in terrain. The model does or does not get cover based purely on the dirt(or lack thereof) it is standing on

This, to me, is an inconsistency.
The days of goodly English is went
Ziss old dog still has a few tricks!

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: 50% Obscured and Cover

Post#20 » Oct 18 2017 02:07

Yeah I don't know why they got rid of the simple "is 50% obscured = in cover". I mean I would've understood it if they got rid of it completely to make the game faster, but they kept it and added the requirement to be in/on the terrain feature as well. Just pure derp.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2150

Re: 50% Obscured and Cover

Post#21 » Oct 18 2017 02:40

Bloodknife92 wrote:I will continue to state that my issue is: A vehicle or monster will get a cover save if obscured by terrain, and standing in it, yes, but won't get a cover save if the same amount of the model is obacured but the model is not in terrain. The model does or does not get cover based purely on the dirt(or lack thereof) it is standing on

It's a bizarre rule, that's for sure. My interpretation has been this- unless a few rare conditions are met, basically nothing ever gets cover. Unless cover is bestowed by an ability, it seems it's pretty common to ever get cover in this edition.

Or maybe they just want lots of people to buy their plastic forest kit?

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 863

Re: 50% Obscured and Cover

Post#22 » Oct 18 2017 01:01

They did an FAQ on this.

Page 248 – Ruins
Change the first paragraph of rules text to read: ‘Unless they can Fly, Vehicles, Monsters, Cavalry and Bikers can only be set up or end their move on the ground floor of ruins.’

Change the third paragraph of rules text to read:‘Infantry units that are entirely on or within a ruin receive the benefit of cover. Other units that are entirely on or within a ruin only receive the benefit of cover if at least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of view of the shooting model.’

https://www.games-workshop.com/resource ... ok_ENG.pdf



There's two requirements. For ease of discussion, we will use a devilfish tank as our example.

1) this devilfish must be on or within the ruin. So it is either on top of it, or touching it. The definition of "within" is to be touching the terrain in some way. So if an engine of the devilfish is physically touching the ruins, you're within. It is explained in this FAQ post.

Q: Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’ and ‘within’ for rules purposes?

A: If a rule says it affects units/models that are ‘wholly within’ then it only applies if the entire unit/model is
within. If it just says ‘within’, however, then it applies so long as any part of the unit/model is within.

For example, units gain the benefit of cover if every model in the unit is either on or within terrain. So long as all the models in that unit are either on or partially within the terrain, they gain the benefit of cover.


2) You have to be 50% obscured from the point of view of the shooting model. That does not mean that the terrain the devilfish is on has to be the one that is obscuring the shot. Anything that obscures 50% counts.

Here's another.

Q: Do units that are not Infantry (Vehicles, Monsters,etc.) gain the benefit of cover from woods, ruins etc. if they are at least 50% obscured by that piece of terrain but are not actually on or within it?

A: No. Unless they are Infantry, such a unit must meet the two following conditions to gain the benefit of cover:

• All of its models must be either on or within the terrain.
• The unit must be at least 50% obscured from the point of view of the firer (note that it doesn’t matter what is obscuring the target, only that it is obscured).
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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Studioworks
Shas'Saal
Posts: 133

Re: 50% Obscured and Cover

Post#23 » Oct 18 2017 02:47

I think we all can agree that the cover rule for vehicles is stupid. My gaming group plays a home rule in which if the vehicle is 50% covered have cover. Easy.

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 863

Re: 50% Obscured and Cover

Post#24 » Oct 18 2017 02:52

Studioworks wrote:I think we all can agree that the cover rule for vehicles is stupid. My gaming group plays a home rule in which if the vehicle is 50% covered have cover. Easy.


Step 1: Is the vehicle touching the terrain? Yes or No? If yes, then move to step two. If no, then no cover.

Step 2: Is the vehicle 50% obscured from the view point of the model shooting, if yes, you get cover. If no, then no cover.

The only difference is that you are removing step 1, which isn't needed. The vehicle only has to be touching the terrain in order for it to get cover. If you have any part of the vehicle on or within the terrain, you can move to step 2.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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Studioworks
Shas'Saal
Posts: 133

Re: 50% Obscured and Cover

Post#25 » Oct 19 2017 03:42

AnonAmbientLight wrote:
Studioworks wrote:I think we all can agree that the cover rule for vehicles is stupid. My gaming group plays a home rule in which if the vehicle is 50% covered have cover. Easy.


Step 1: Is the vehicle touching the terrain? Yes or No? If yes, then move to step two. If no, then no cover.

Step 2: Is the vehicle 50% obscured from the view point of the model shooting, if yes, you get cover. If no, then no cover.

The only difference is that you are removing step 1, which isn't needed. The vehicle only has to be touching the terrain in order for it to get cover. If you have any part of the vehicle on or within the terrain, you can move to step 2.


I understand how it works. I'm just saying I don't like it and I don't want to play in this way. Luckily all my friends share the same opinion.

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 863

Re: 50% Obscured and Cover

Post#26 » Oct 19 2017 06:00

Right, but the reason the cover rule exists like it does is to balance out how vehicles shoot and get shot at in 8th.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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