Detachment-wide rules (a la Space Marine Chapters)

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manbearfrink
Shas
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Detachment-wide rules (a la Space Marine Chapters)

Post#1 » Nov 10 2017 10:57

Simple question, when do detachment-wide rules apply for armies with mixed factions?

Example from a recent game:

Battalion:
Some Primaris Marines (Salamanders)
Custodes Land Raider/Guard/Contemptor

Do the primaris get the Salamanders bonus?

RAW from codex:
"If your army is Battleforged, all INFANTRY, BIKER, and DREADNOUGHT units in a Space Marines Detachment gain a Chapter Tactic, so long as every unit in that Detachment is drawn from the same Chapter."

To me all the Space Marines are from the same chapter, but not all units in the detachment, but it could read either way.

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QimRas
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Posts: 272

Re: Detachment-wide rules (a la Space Marine Chapters)

Post#2 » Nov 10 2017 11:07

From what I understand, chapter rules (and those like them) are detachment based.

To qualify all models in thr detachment have to share the exact same <chapter> keyword for it to be a chapter detachment.

In your example, custodes do not have the <chapter> keyword. So this would not be a <chapter> detachment. Instead, all models have the Imperium keyword, making it an Imperium detachment which does not have special rules.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Detachment-wide rules (a la Space Marine Chapters)

Post#3 » Nov 10 2017 11:17

manbearfrink wrote:Simple question, when do detachment-wide rules apply for armies with mixed factions?

Example from a recent game:

Battalion:
Some Primaris Marines (Salamanders)
Custodes Land Raider/Guard/Contemptor

Do the primaris get the Salamanders bonus?

RAW from codex:
"If your army is Battleforged, all INFANTRY, BIKER, and DREADNOUGHT units in a Space Marines Detachment gain a Chapter Tactic, so long as every unit in that Detachment is drawn from the same Chapter."

To me all the Space Marines are from the same chapter, but not all units in the detachment, but it could read either way.


If anything is in a detachment without the keyword "SPACE MARINES" its not a space marine detachment. So no chapter tactics.

If every model in the detachment has the keyword "SPACE MARINES" but not necessarily <chapter> it'll still work but the non chapter models won't get the chapter benefits

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QimRas
Shas'Saal
Posts: 272

Re: Detachment-wide rules (a la Space Marine Chapters)

Post#4 » Nov 10 2017 11:46

Nymphomanius wrote:
manbearfrink wrote:Simple question, when do detachment-wide rules apply for armies with mixed factions?

Example from a recent game:

Battalion:
Some Primaris Marines (Salamanders)
Custodes Land Raider/Guard/Contemptor

Do the primaris get the Salamanders bonus?

RAW from codex:
"If your army is Battleforged, all INFANTRY, BIKER, and DREADNOUGHT units in a Space Marines Detachment gain a Chapter Tactic, so long as every unit in that Detachment is drawn from the same Chapter."

To me all the Space Marines are from the same chapter, but not all units in the detachment, but it could read either way.


If anything is in a detachment without the keyword "SPACE MARINES" its not a space marine detachment. So no chapter tactics.

If every model in the detachment has the keyword "SPACE MARINES" but not necessarily <chapter> it'll still work but the non chapter models won't get the chapter benefits


Incorrect. Added additional emphasis in your quote for the pertinent portion.

Nymphomanius
Shas
Posts: 289
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Re: Detachment-wide rules (a la Space Marine Chapters)

Post#5 » Nov 10 2017 11:59

QimRas wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
manbearfrink wrote:Simple question, when do detachment-wide rules apply for armies with mixed factions?

Example from a recent game:

Battalion:
Some Primaris Marines (Salamanders)
Custodes Land Raider/Guard/Contemptor

Do the primaris get the Salamanders bonus?

RAW from codex:
"If your army is Battleforged, all INFANTRY, BIKER, and DREADNOUGHT units in a Space Marines Detachment gain a Chapter Tactic, so long as every unit in that Detachment is drawn from the same Chapter."

To me all the Space Marines are from the same chapter, but not all units in the detachment, but it could read either way.


If anything is in a detachment without the keyword "SPACE MARINES" its not a space marine detachment. So no chapter tactics.

If every model in the detachment has the keyword "SPACE MARINES" but not necessarily <chapter> it'll still work but the non chapter models won't get the chapter benefits


Incorrect. Added additional emphasis in your quote for the pertinent portion.


Your emphasis is irrelevant? The important part is "SPACE MARINES" detachment if you include 1 model in that Detachment not from the space marine codex it's not a space marine detachment.

So to answer your question directly no the Salamanders get no chapter tactics in the example detachment as it's not a "SPACE MARINES" detachment if it includes guard / Admech / custodes etc...

Edit: as far as I can see there is nothing in the SM codex that doesn't have the <chapter > keyword so that part of the comment is only relevant if you are mixing say salamander and white scars in one detachment which would be pointless.

The reason i worded my previous comment as such is because in the astra millitarum codex not every unit has to be from the same regiment to get the regiment bonus aslong as there aren't 2 player assigned regiments (I.e you can have cadian and scholarum psykana in the same Detachment and cadian will get their bonuses the even though the primaris Psyker doesn't have the cadian keyword because he is still astra millitarum)

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QimRas
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Posts: 272

Re: Detachment-wide rules (a la Space Marine Chapters)

Post#6 » Nov 10 2017 12:13

Nymphomanius wrote:Your emphasis is irrelevant? The important part is "SPACE MARINES" detachment if you include 1 model in that Detachment not from the space marine codex it's not a space marine detachment.


Apologies. I misunderstood your point. I thought you were trying to say the Custodes were OK in the detachment because the had the space marine keyword.... forgetting completely that they do not have the space marine keyword. I keep thinking of them as special space marines.

That said, the <Chapter> reference is not completely irrelevant. If you take Space Marines of two different chapters in the same detachment, it still counts as a space marine detachment for battle forging, but they would not gain either chapter tactic.

Nymphomanius
Shas
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Re: Detachment-wide rules (a la Space Marine Chapters)

Post#7 » Nov 10 2017 12:36

QimRas wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:Your emphasis is irrelevant? The important part is "SPACE MARINES" detachment if you include 1 model in that Detachment not from the space marine codex it's not a space marine detachment.


Apologies. I misunderstood your point. I thought you were trying to say the Custodes were OK in the detachment because the had the space marine keyword.... forgetting completely that they do not have the space marine keyword. I keep thinking of them as special space marines.

That said, the <Chapter> reference is not completely irrelevant. If you take Space Marines of two different chapters in the same detachment, it still counts as a space marine detachment for battle forging, but they would not gain either chapter tactic.


That's correct I assume you were writing this as I was editing my previous post, which does now cover that in more detail :D

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QimRas
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Posts: 272

Re: Detachment-wide rules (a la Space Marine Chapters)

Post#8 » Nov 10 2017 01:05

Nymphomanius wrote:That's correct I assume you were writing this as I was editing my previous post, which does now cover that in more detail :D

Pretty much.

That said, you can totally do two seperate detachments, which based on the Chaos Space Marine FAQ, does give you access to both groups of strategems.

manbearfrink
Shas
Posts: 17

Re: Detachment-wide rules (a la Space Marine Chapters)

Post#9 » Nov 10 2017 01:16

Ah, thanks much everyone. My opponent was still pretty new to 40k so I wanted him to have fun (and not be crushed by the might of the T'au). I will keep this in mind for future engagements though!

Nymphomanius
Shas
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Re: Detachment-wide rules (a la Space Marine Chapters)

Post#10 » Nov 10 2017 01:22

QimRas wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:That's correct I assume you were writing this as I was editing my previous post, which does now cover that in more detail :D

Pretty much.

That said, you can totally do two seperate detachments, which based on the Chaos Space Marine FAQ, does give you access to both groups of strategems.


Correct you can legit bring a vanguard detachment of salamander Dreadnoughts and an outrider detachment of black templars assault Marines for example

manbearfrink wrote:Ah, thanks much everyone. My opponent was still pretty new to 40k so I wanted him to have fun (and not be crushed by the might of the T'au). I will keep this in mind for future engagements though!

No worries glad to help :nice:

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