Early warning override use against Reserve models.

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Sau'Fion
Shas
Posts: 2

Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#1 » Dec 18 2017 01:27

Just a quick question. Can the Early Warning Override be used against enemy units arriving in reserve? I'm guessing Infantry and Fly keyword units arriving from orbit more than those arriving from a landing zone just off the table edge.

Any help is greatly received.

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3257

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#2 » Dec 18 2017 08:55

Sau'Fion wrote:Just a quick question. Can the Early Warning Override be used against enemy units arriving in reserve? I'm guessing Infantry and Fly keyword units arriving from orbit more than those arriving from a landing zone just off the table edge.

I think the answer is yes. Any unit that uses an ability- either to walk in from the edge or drop in- can be shot at, as long as they are in range.

Sau'Fion
Shas
Posts: 2

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#3 » Dec 19 2017 03:02

Thanks

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ErSe0831
Shas'Saal
Posts: 65

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#4 » Dec 19 2017 04:00

In addition to reserves, this also apply (from our Index FAQ)

Q: Can models with an early warning override Support System
use it to shoot at units that use psychic powers such as Gate of
Infinity or Da Jump to set up within 12"?
A: Yes.


Which of course is nice :)

Wedrujacy
Shas'Saal
Posts: 78

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#5 » Dec 19 2017 04:12

Do you remember if case with drop pod and insert was finally solved?
So can drop pod be shot and later on his insert which goes out?

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3257

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#6 » Dec 19 2017 08:59

Wedrujacy wrote:Do you remember if case with drop pod and insert was finally solved?
So can drop pod be shot and later on his insert which goes out?

Huh, I can't remember what the verdict was. I think the Drop Pod can be shot, but not the passengers? Something like that?

Muaddib195
Shas
Posts: 20

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#7 » Dec 19 2017 09:45

This one came up in a recent game I played: If a Tau commander w/ shield drones deepstrikes within range of a unit with EWO (or one of the equivalent strategems), is the EWO unit allowed to shoot both the commander and the drones after the drones separate, or does the character rule protect the Commander (assuming the drones are between the Commander and the EWO unit).

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StealthKnightSteg
Shas'Saal
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Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#8 » Dec 19 2017 09:49

Muaddib195 wrote:This one came up in a recent game I played: If a Tau commander w/ shield drones deepstrikes within range of a unit with EWO (or one of the equivalent strategems), is the EWO unit allowed to shoot both the commander and the drones after the drones separate, or does the character rule protect the Commander (assuming the drones are between the Commander and the EWO unit).


Character rule will not apply, as it's not the shooting fase.. but intersting question about drones and Commander.. will they be counted as one unit or seperate.. I tend to go with seperate.

Muaddib195
Shas
Posts: 20

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#9 » Dec 19 2017 09:54

StealthKnightSteg wrote:
Muaddib195 wrote:This one came up in a recent game I played: If a Tau commander w/ shield drones deepstrikes within range of a unit with EWO (or one of the equivalent strategems), is the EWO unit allowed to shoot both the commander and the drones after the drones separate, or does the character rule protect the Commander (assuming the drones are between the Commander and the EWO unit).


Character rule will not apply, as it's not the shooting fase.. but intersting question about drones and Commander.. will they be counted as one unit or seperate.. I tend to go with seperate.


My issue is that the wording says "may shoot at that unit as if it your shooting phase", which seems to imply that shooting phase restrictions would apply. The timing of separation of the drones was also a bit of an issue.

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StealthKnightSteg
Shas'Saal
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Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#10 » Dec 19 2017 10:26

Muaddib195 wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:
Muaddib195 wrote:This one came up in a recent game I played: If a Tau commander w/ shield drones deepstrikes within range of a unit with EWO (or one of the equivalent strategems), is the EWO unit allowed to shoot both the commander and the drones after the drones separate, or does the character rule protect the Commander (assuming the drones are between the Commander and the EWO unit).


Character rule will not apply, as it's not the shooting fase.. but intersting question about drones and Commander.. will they be counted as one unit or seperate.. I tend to go with seperate.


My issue is that the wording says "may shoot at that unit as if it your shooting phase", which seems to imply that shooting phase restrictions would apply. The timing of separation of the drones was also a bit of an issue.


Can't find it right now, but it was previously established that shooting phase restrictions would not apply, just normal restrictions that are applicable at that moment.. Same with Overwatch also a shooting thing in an off phase and in that you can target Characters then

Blinx
Shas'Saal
Posts: 27

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#11 » Dec 19 2017 10:36

I was in a thread discussing this a while back.

I think the consensus is that RAW is really unclear. As character targeting, LoS and weapon range are all at the 'choosing a target' step, either they all apply or none of them do :P

EDIT: The argument is basically whether 'may shoot at that unit' bypasses targeting or not. If it does, then you don't have to check LoS, weapon range and character rules. If it doesn't, then you have to check all of them

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LordValandil
Shas
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Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#12 » Feb 08 2018 04:18

My main question with this would be if it can be activated multiple times. Say an assault squad comes down within 12" of your Stormsurge. EWO activates and you shoot at them. The opponent then drops a squad of Terminators down within 12". Can EWO activate a second time?

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ErSe0831
Shas'Saal
Posts: 65

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#13 » Feb 08 2018 05:04

LordValandil wrote:My main question with this would be if it can be activated multiple times. Say an assault squad comes down within 12" of your Stormsurge. EWO activates and you shoot at them. The opponent then drops a squad of Terminators down within 12". Can EWO activate a second time?


Well, no where is it stated that you can't use the ability more that once. The only case that could be made against it would be that you normally can't shoot more than once in the Shooting phase. But the EWO-rule triggers each time an enemy unit is set up within 12" of the model, so the shooting occurs each time.

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Wes
Shas
Posts: 70

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#14 » Feb 12 2018 11:04

StealthKnightSteg wrote:
Muaddib195 wrote:This one came up in a recent game I played: If a Tau commander w/ shield drones deepstrikes within range of a unit with EWO (or one of the equivalent strategems), is the EWO unit allowed to shoot both the commander and the drones after the drones separate, or does the character rule protect the Commander (assuming the drones are between the Commander and the EWO unit).


Character rule will not apply, as it's not the shooting fase.. but intersting question about drones and Commander.. will they be counted as one unit or seperate.. I tend to go with seperate.


I feel like RAI would be no. The Commander and drones deploy together, not separately, and they must be in coherency. So it's one deployment, not two deployments.

But RAW doesn't seem to address this, and it seems like it's simply based on each unit. So at what point are they two separate units?

Wedrujacy
Shas'Saal
Posts: 78

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#15 » Feb 12 2018 12:44

Wes wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:
Muaddib195 wrote:This one came up in a recent game I played: If a Tau commander w/ shield drones deepstrikes within range of a unit with EWO (or one of the equivalent strategems), is the EWO unit allowed to shoot both the commander and the drones after the drones separate, or does the character rule protect the Commander (assuming the drones are between the Commander and the EWO unit).


Character rule will not apply, as it's not the shooting fase.. but intersting question about drones and Commander.. will they be counted as one unit or seperate.. I tend to go with seperate.


I feel like RAI would be no. The Commander and drones deploy together, not separately, and they must be in coherency. So it's one deployment, not two deployments.

But RAW doesn't seem to address this, and it seems like it's simply based on each unit. So at what point are they two separate units?


1 deployment = 1 shoot from evo

Suits and drones deploy together and when deployed start to be two seperate units. So 1d = 1evolved

Sm drops and after them other unit drops. So 2d = 2evolved (1 for each)

question is regarding droppod and sms going out from it. 1 evo for drop pod and then 2nd evo for sms?

Muaddib195
Shas
Posts: 20

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#16 » Feb 12 2018 01:37

If the shooting happens before the drones and commander separate, how to you handle the difference in Toughness between drones and the Commander? 8e no longer allows mixed toughness units, so I don't think its covered in the rules.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 574

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#17 » Feb 12 2018 01:54

Muaddib195 wrote:If the shooting happens before the drones and commander separate, how to you handle the difference in Toughness between drones and the Commander? 8e no longer allows mixed toughness units, so I don't think its covered in the rules.


Both the shots and splitting of the squad happens at the same time so generally tie goes to the person who's turn it is. They split the squads and then they are two units who arrived via deepstrike. Definitely needs GW clarification.

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nic
Kroot'Ui
Kroot'Ui
Posts: 868

Re: Early warning override use against Reserve models.

Post#18 » Feb 12 2018 05:24

On the issue of targeting a character arriving from reserves we now have this from the Custodes FAQ

Q: How does the Ever Vigilant Stratagem interact with
Characters with a Wounds characteristic of less than 10?
Can Ever Vigilant allow a unit to target such a Character
who arrives as reinforcements even if they are not the closest
enemy unit?
A: No, unless they shoot weapons that can target
Characters even if they are not the closest enemy unit.


Which I think steers us pretty solidly towards not being able to target a character with EWO unless they both arrive from reserves and there are no non-character enemy units closer.

So a commander + drones can drop down and deploy the drones closer to the intercepting unit. Then as the active player generally decides the order of simultaneous actions they can choose to split the drones off into a separate unit before EWO (or other interceptor fire) activates. That could actually be a life-saver against those Dark Reapers - feed them a couple of drones rather than a vital Commander.

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