Sniper Drones' BS

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
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Bloodknife92
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Sniper Drones' BS

Post#1 » Jan 24 2018 04:26

Call me ignorant, but I've never considered sniper drones until a week ago, and I just noticed that the Firesight Marksman can be anywhere on the board, and as long as he can see the target of the Sniper Drones' shooting attack, they gain +1 to their hit rolls.

My question is this: does this stack with the Drone Controller? If so, my wife is going to want to kill me eventually :P

TauGeorge
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#2 » Jan 24 2018 05:11

Good question.

Looking forward to the answer from whoever is knowledgeable.

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Arka0415
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#3 » Jan 24 2018 05:12

Bloodknife92 wrote:Call me ignorant, but I've never considered sniper drones until a week ago, and I just noticed that the Firesight Marksman can be anywhere on the board, and as long as he can see the target of the Sniper Drones' shooting attack, they gain +1 to their hit rolls.

My question is this: does this stack with the Drone Controller? If so, my wife is going to want to kill me eventually :P

Sure it does! Add 5 Markerlights into the mix and now you have 97% accuracy. That said though, even with 97% accuracy you're still looking at a pretty complicated combo that takes an absolute bucket of Sniper Drones before the efficiency beats out more conventional shooting options.

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Bloodknife92
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#4 » Jan 24 2018 06:18

Arka0415 wrote:
Bloodknife92 wrote:Call me ignorant, but I've never considered sniper drones until a week ago, and I just noticed that the Firesight Marksman can be anywhere on the board, and as long as he can see the target of the Sniper Drones' shooting attack, they gain +1 to their hit rolls.

My question is this: does this stack with the Drone Controller? If so, my wife is going to want to kill me eventually :P

Sure it does! Add 5 Markerlights into the mix and now you have 97% accuracy. That said though, even with 97% accuracy you're still looking at a pretty complicated combo that takes an absolute bucket of Sniper Drones before the efficiency beats out more conventional shooting options.

Thanks Arka! My plan was simply to run some sniper drones up with some Crisis suits, the leader of which will have a Drone Controller so I can pump out some BS3+ character killing shots. Throw Darkstrider in the mix and I'm rolling 2s to wound my regular opponent's Techpriests!

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JancoBCN
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#5 » Jan 24 2018 06:23

Arka0415 wrote:
Bloodknife92 wrote:Call me ignorant, but I've never considered sniper drones until a week ago, and I just noticed that the Firesight Marksman can be anywhere on the board, and as long as he can see the target of the Sniper Drones' shooting attack, they gain +1 to their hit rolls.

My question is this: does this stack with the Drone Controller? If so, my wife is going to want to kill me eventually :P

Sure it does! Add 5 Markerlights into the mix and now you have 97% accuracy. That said though, even with 97% accuracy you're still looking at a pretty complicated combo that takes an absolute bucket of Sniper Drones before the efficiency beats out more conventional shooting options.


Basically that.

I have tried them many times, and even its range is deecent, not being a Heavy weapon too, and it's strength is higher than other snipers, there are 3 things that kill them, and that I think even if any of them is fixed, they will remain unplayable (or at least not good for a wide margin):

1- 18 points per shot is just stupid. When you see other armies what you seek is more output/points efficiency, to be able to actually kill some Character. If you have some rule that allows extra damage, then you start adding up! Also, you have to add the extra points of the characters they need to even be into the conversation.

2- Speaking of that extra damage, the fact that we don't deal mortal wounds still mean that those SM, CSM, Eldar, Tyranid, Necron, some AM (among others) characters with Sv2+ or even 3+ laugh at us. And even though S5 looks great on the surface, it makes the wounding process a bit easier some times, the AP0 and no extra way of piercing heavy armours make them only a threat to pick some random Primaris Psyker or AM Officer. And of cours, still dependant on your support to not s**k at their only job: shoot.

3- Needing that LoS from the Marksman maybe is not that dificult, but still you are giving plenty of room to the opponent to just hide from your drones OR your Marksman, which effectively negates the drones anyway. Even if you are at 4+, you are way far from deecent, so you will need a DC close enough: another problem, not only you have to invest points in a model that you need to put only for them, but also our current best DC bearers are not suposed to remain at 48" from the enemy, and also the other drones you use that benefit from that DC are Gun drones, which are meant to go forward to be able to shoot at something with their short range, so you cannot just add more drones to justify your DC.

The best they could do is to make them inflict Mortal wounds as the other Sniper weapons, that would be the easier change that could make them at least playable.


PS: they really have to allow your Marksman to target an enemy Character with his Markerlight, what a flavour fail!
Last edited by JancoBCN on Jan 24 2018 06:34, edited 2 times in total.

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Arka0415
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#6 » Jan 24 2018 06:31

JancoBCN wrote:I have tried many times, and even its range is deecent, not being a Heavy weapon too, and it's strength is higher than other snipers, there are 3 things that kill them, and that I think even if any of them is fixed, they will remein unplayable

I agree. Unless you're in a meta where players love to bring cheap, low-save characters I don't think they're worthwhile. And most of the really powerful low-save characters are already nerfed. Commissars don't do much anymore and IG Primaris Psyker spam got beta-nerfed.

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Bloodknife92
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#7 » Jan 24 2018 07:49

Arka0415 wrote:
JancoBCN wrote:I have tried many times, and even its range is deecent, not being a Heavy weapon too, and it's strength is higher than other snipers, there are 3 things that kill them, and that I think even if any of them is fixed, they will remein unplayable

I agree. Unless you're in a meta where players love to bring cheap, low-save characters I don't think they're worthwhile. And most of the really powerful low-save characters are already nerfed. Commissars don't do much anymore and IG Primaris Psyker spam got beta-nerfed.

Lucky for me my main opponent plays Ad Mech, and uses the two different Engineseers, who, to my knowledge only have 4+ saves. His next army, which he just started working on, is a pure infantry Militarum army. Double lucky!
My other opponents are Space Wolves, Orkz, Eldar and a tank spamming Militarum player....

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JancoBCN
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#8 » Jan 24 2018 08:22

Bloodknife92 wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
JancoBCN wrote:I have tried many times, and even its range is deecent, not being a Heavy weapon too, and it's strength is higher than other snipers, there are 3 things that kill them, and that I think even if any of them is fixed, they will remein unplayable

I agree. Unless you're in a meta where players love to bring cheap, low-save characters I don't think they're worthwhile. And most of the really powerful low-save characters are already nerfed. Commissars don't do much anymore and IG Primaris Psyker spam got beta-nerfed.

Lucky for me my main opponent plays Ad Mech, and uses the two different Engineseers, who, to my knowledge only have 4+ saves.


Yeah, no... they have one with Sv3+ (their only HQ with worse save than 2+) and another one (Elite) with Sv2+. I'm sorry! :?

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Arka0415
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#9 » Jan 24 2018 08:36

JancoBCN wrote:Yeah, no... they have one with Sv3+ (their only HQ with worse save than 2+) and another one (Elite) with Sv2+. I'm sorry! :?

W4/Sv3+, don't worry, you just need... 528 points worth of Sniper Drones and a Firesight Marksman to kill it :neutral:

PeeJ
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#10 » Jan 24 2018 10:19

Arka0415 wrote:
JancoBCN wrote:Yeah, no... they have one with Sv3+ (their only HQ with worse save than 2+) and another one (Elite) with Sv2+. I'm sorry! :?

W4/Sv3+, don't worry, you just need... 528 points worth of Sniper Drones and a Firesight Marksman to kill it :neutral:


They really are a top-notch unit aren't they!

I'm starting to suspect that when coming up with points/rules/roles for our units, the designers went with things that sound like they will be good/work at first glance. But then didn't do the math behind it, there seems to be a lot of "this could be cool", which is then swiftly proven to be less durable, accurate, reliable, mobile, versatile and cost effective than commander spam.

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leo1925
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#11 » Jan 24 2018 11:31

Every sniper unit in the game has some serious drawback (except for eldar ones), let's check them for each faction (excpet ours):
1) Eldar snipers don't have any appearant weakness, they are the second cheapest, are quite resilient (more so if they are alaitoc) and are on the troop slot.
2) Space marine ones are resilient but quite expensive
3) AM ones are woefully fragile, don't get buffs (orders and regiment bonuses mostly) are on overcrowded slot but they are cheap (less so after CA)
4) Necrons' snipers are very very expensive (a bit more expensive than our sniper drones) and have a very short range (they have an ability that can help them somewhat)
5) Mechanicus' snipers are weird and i can't really size them up but as a gut feeling i will say that are too expensive for what they do.
6) CSM, nids, orks and demons don't even have snipers, dark eldar pretty much don't have snipers.

Now all of them have either inflitrate or deepstrike (except the mechanicus' snipers) and all have BS 3 and the same weapon (except the mechanicus' snipers) which means that their output is pretty much the same, all that changes are the point cost and their fragility.
Now ours are the second more expensive snipers, have BS 5 instead of BS 3, no ability to inflict mortal wounds, the extra STR makes a difference only on T4 and T8 characters and greater range (again, except the weird mechanicus' snipers), the sinper drones also DO NOT have either deep strike nor inflitrate, they also have good resiliency and a bit more movement.
In my opinion it's the insanely high cost along with the BS 5 that makes them crap, sure we can make them BS 3 by dropping a ton of points on them and having so many moving parts that it's quite easy to shut them down (or at least weaken them to the point of uslesness).

If they costed 8 to 10 points then maybe we could use them, i think that they would still be sub par but not the utter cr@p that they are now.

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Draco023
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#12 » Jan 24 2018 12:00

I'd be willing to straight trade for the longshot pulse rifle they come with now for the pathfinders rail rifle. Yes that would make them pretty costly ( figure the base rifle costs maybe 5-6 points ?) but even with their limitations they'd be able to really reach out and do damage. That would put them at about the same cost each as a stealth suit, with the same stealth field ( kinda) and toughness but much better potential damage. I'd run one with a stealth team all day long! They did have rail rifles back in 4th if memory serves as well.

Lore
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#13 » Jan 24 2018 05:19

All the above, but I think they look pretty cool - not that keen on the marksman though, I think the conversion here
http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?t=22532
is a better job, even armed with a pulse pistol, though heaven's knows why a marksman is limited to this and his markerlight?

Pottsey
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#14 » Jan 24 2018 05:26

Bloodknife92 wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Bloodknife92 wrote:Call me ignorant, but I've never considered sniper drones until a week ago, and I just noticed that the Firesight Marksman can be anywhere on the board, and as long as he can see the target of the Sniper Drones' shooting attack, they gain +1 to their hit rolls.

My question is this: does this stack with the Drone Controller? If so, my wife is going to want to kill me eventually :P

Sure it does! Add 5 Markerlights into the mix and now you have 97% accuracy. That said though, even with 97% accuracy you're still looking at a pretty complicated combo that takes an absolute bucket of Sniper Drones before the efficiency beats out more conventional shooting options.

Thanks Arka! My plan was simply to run some sniper drones up with some Crisis suits, the leader of which will have a Drone Controller so I can pump out some BS3+ character killing shots. Throw Darkstrider in the mix and I'm rolling 2s to wound my regular opponent's Techpriests!

Darkstrider does not give -1T to things sniper drones shoot. The real problem with sniperdrones is S5, 0ap bounces off most characters. It doesn't matter if you can target them and hit with a nice BS if you do not have the punch to do any real damage.

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Arka0415
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#15 » Jan 24 2018 06:37

Pottsey wrote:
Bloodknife92 wrote:Thanks Arka! My plan was simply to run some sniper drones up with some Crisis suits, the leader of which will have a Drone Controller so I can pump out some BS3+ character killing shots. Throw Darkstrider in the mix and I'm rolling 2s to wound my regular opponent's Techpriests!

Darkstrider does not give -1T to things sniper drones shoot. The real problem with sniperdrones is S5, 0ap bounces off most characters. It doesn't matter if you can target them and hit with a nice BS if you do not have the punch to do any real damage.

Not only does Darkstrider not buff Sniper Drones, even if he did it wouldn't help, as Techpriests are T4. :D

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SniperTau
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#16 » Jan 24 2018 07:32

The mechanicus snipers are nasty. I play an infantry heavy list with 2x ranger squads with two each. They make short work of anything except terminator captains, especially when in range of a Dominus or Cawl. Sure it is 25 points, but it hits harder than an auto cannon. Unfortunately us tau only have longshot pulse, which is not the best, although I love the models.

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Arka0415
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#17 » Jan 24 2018 10:24

SniperTau wrote:The mechanicus snipers are nasty. I play an infantry heavy list with 2x ranger squads with two each. They make short work of anything except terminator captains, especially when in range of a Dominus or Cawl. Sure it is 25 points, but it hits harder than an auto cannon. Unfortunately us tau only have longshot pulse, which is not the best, although I love the models.

Those guys are nasty. We have some defense against them with drones, but if a Fireblade or Ethereal gets caught out without drone support? Those snipers can take them down really easily.

comm_nagrom
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Re: Sniper Drones' BS

Post#18 » Jan 24 2018 11:01

Draco023 wrote:I'd be willing to straight trade for the longshot pulse rifle they come with now for the pathfinders rail rifle. Yes that would make them pretty costly ( figure the base rifle costs maybe 5-6 points ?) but even with their limitations they'd be able to really reach out and do damage. That would put them at about the same cost each as a stealth suit, with the same stealth field ( kinda) and toughness but much better potential damage. I'd run one with a stealth team all day long! They did have rail rifles back in 4th if memory serves as well.


Didn't they used to have rail rifles a few editions ago? I swear I remember them and pathfinders being the only ones to have smaller railgun tech, before the broadsides had mini railguns

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