Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

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T0nkaTruckDriver
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Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#1 » Jan 31 2018 11:31

My Commander with the Warlord Trait "Tenacious Survivor" takes 1 wound from a Pulse Rifle.

He rolls a 1 and fails his armor save. He rolls a dice to attempt to shrug off the wound using Tenacious Survivor (6+). He rolls a 5 and fails this roll.

A shield drone is nearby. I transfer the wound to the Shield Drone using the Savior Protocol rule. The Shield Drone takes a mortal wound. I roll a dice to attempt to ignore this wound using the Shield Generator (5+). I roll a 4 and fail this roll. A Shield Drone model is removed from the table.


Did I do this correctly?

Spoiler!
Tenacious Survivor: Roll a dice each time this warlord loses a wound. On a 6, the warlord shrugs off the damage and does not lose the wound.

Savior Protocol: If a DRONES unit is within 3" of a friendly INFANTRY or BATTLESUIT unit when an enemy attack successfully wounds it, you can allocate that wound to the Drones unit instead of the target. If you do, that Drones unit suffers a mortal wound instead of the normal damage.

Shield Generator: A model with a shield generator has a 4+ invulnerable save. In addition, roll a D6 each time a Drone with this ability loses a wound; on a 5+ that Drone does not lose a wound.

Corbeau
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Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#2 » Jan 31 2018 11:39

You need to allocate the wound on the shield drone before any save roll. Which means there isn’t any save roll when you use Savior Protocol because the wound becomes a mortal wound

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Arka0415
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Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#3 » Feb 01 2018 12:01

Corbeau is correct- you have two options:

1. Take the wound on the Commander, in which case you get the 3+/6+++ save.
2. Take the wound on the Shield Drone, which doesn't get its 4++ save but may roll its 5+++ save.

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T0nkaTruckDriver
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Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#4 » Feb 01 2018 12:52

Can you point me to a FAQ that clarifies this?

I'm new to 8th ed, but watched a Tau player at the local gaming store who was playing Savior Protocol differently.


He'd roll an armor/invuln save on the Commander. If he failed, he'd pass the wound to a nearby drone using the Savior Protocol rule. He'd then take a mortal wound on the Shield Drone (so it wouldn't get to use it's armor or invuln save), which would then get to take it's 5+++ FNP save.

Was this other gamer that I watched doing it wrong?

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Arka0415
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Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#5 » Feb 01 2018 01:05

T0nkaTruckDriver wrote:Can you point me to a FAQ that clarifies this?

I'm new to 8th ed, but watched a Tau player at the local gaming store who was playing Savior Protocol differently.

Sure, you can find it on page XX of this document: https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-c ... s_2_en.pdf

‘Saviour Protocols: If a <Sept> Drones unit is within 3"
of a friendly <Sept> Infantry or <Sept> Battlesuit
unit when an enemy attack successfully wounds it, you
can allocate that wound to the Drones unit instead of
the target. If you do, that Drones unit suffers a mortal
wound instead of the normal damage.’

An attack "successfully wounding" means that a to-wound roll is passed; this happens before armor or invulnerable saves are rolled.

T0nkaTruckDriver wrote:He'd roll an armor/invuln save on the Commander. If he failed, he'd pass the wound to a nearby drone using the Savior Protocol rule. He'd then take a mortal wound on the Shield Drone (so it wouldn't get to use it's armor or invuln save), which would then get to take it's 5+++ FNP save.

Was this other gamer that I watched doing it wrong?

That would be powerful indeed, but that's not how the rule works sadly.

Edit: I don't know if GW has expressly said whether or not "successfully wounds" comes before or after armor saves. Feel free to post the question on their Facebook page. If it turns out that it comes after armor saves, then we've all been making a mistake for quite some time now.

Cgreeves
Shas
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Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#6 » Feb 01 2018 10:31

Arka0415 wrote:Edit: I don't know if GW has expressly said whether or not "successfully wounds" comes before or after armor saves. Feel free to post the question on their Facebook page. If it turns out that it comes after armor saves, then we've all been making a mistake for quite some time now.


From my understanding it goes like this

Failed/Successfully hit
Failed/Successfully wound
Failed/Successfully save
Determine damage
Roll damage mitigation... (for as many abilities that you have that give this)
Apply remaining damage

So a successful wound happens before the armour save is rolled and then damage is applied once the save is failed. Exactly like arka said.

Unfortunately the other tau player was definitely playing it wrongly (we all wish it was that way)

An interesting thought though is that if you have gun drones you are better off in a lot of cases having the commander closer as if he is targeted it is a higher toughness value (assuming you would pass off mortal wounds) whilst this isn’t as big a deal as it was before it can lead to slightly less wounds overall. However with shield drones I think you are definitely better off having them closer :)

Blinx
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Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#7 » Feb 01 2018 11:16

Cgreeves wrote:An interesting thought though is that if you have gun drones you are better off in a lot of cases having the commander closer as if he is targeted it is a higher toughness value (assuming you would pass off mortal wounds) whilst this isn’t as big a deal as it was before it can lead to slightly less wounds overall. However with shield drones I think you are definitely better off having them closer :)

Although doing this risks that some damage goes onto the commander (e.g. all the drones die before the unit's shooting is over). If the commander is behind, you may lose all the drones quicker but the commander cannot be damaged (until the drones are all dead and a new unit fires)

Cgreeves
Shas
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Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#8 » Feb 01 2018 11:19

Blinx wrote:Although doing this risks that some damage goes onto the commander (e.g. all the drones die before the unit's shooting is over). If the commander is behind, you may lose all the drones quicker but the commander cannot be damaged (until the drones are all dead and a new unit fires)


Yeah fair enough it would work best with a 10 squad of drone and taking the farthest away in the unit first. However it is a marginal difference if best perhaps just better to play safe :)

Blinx
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Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#9 » Feb 01 2018 11:28

Cgreeves wrote:
Blinx wrote:Although doing this risks that some damage goes onto the commander (e.g. all the drones die before the unit's shooting is over). If the commander is behind, you may lose all the drones quicker but the commander cannot be damaged (until the drones are all dead and a new unit fires)


Yeah fair enough it would work best with a 10 squad of drone and taking the farthest away in the unit first. However it is a marginal difference if best perhaps just better to play safe :)

Also gun drones are more survivable being shot at (4+ save) rather than taking a mortal wound per successful wound.

I think I'd prefer my commander to live rather than gun drones ;)

Cgreeves
Shas
Posts: 52

Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#10 » Feb 01 2018 12:18

Blinx wrote:
Cgreeves wrote:
Blinx wrote:Also gun drones are more survivable being shot at (4+ save) rather than taking a mortal wound per successful wound.

I think I'd prefer my commander to live rather than gun drones ;)


Yeah fair enough I hadn’t really thought through. I’m my mind I was thinking the stuff that gets shot at commander tends to be high -ap so there would be no save however I failed to think that most of that stuff will be s6/7 therefore not making much of a difference but if it was s8 I don’t think the 12.5% less chance of losing an 8 point model is really worth quibbling over ;)

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#11 » Feb 02 2018 07:05

As I do agree on the normal wounding pattern (successful wounds is after rolling To Wound) I do sense there is a consensus about Mortal wounds that can also be passed on to drones. This is a direct damage thing deducting the W characteristic, but is handled as an automatic successful Wound roll and thus eligible for Saviour Protocols..

Anyway this whole thing is rather ambiguous

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Arka0415
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Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#12 » Feb 02 2018 07:35

StealthKnightSteg wrote:As I do agree on the normal wounding pattern (successful wounds is after rolling To Wound) I do sense there is a consensus about Mortal wounds that can also be passed on to drones. This is a direct damage thing deducting the W characteristic, but is handled as an automatic successful Wound roll and thus eligible for Saviour Protocols.

Mortal wounds can be passed on to drones. Mortal wounds that you inflict on yourself, however, cannot. This includes Bodyguards, overcharging Ion weapons, and Nova Reactors.

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#13 » Feb 02 2018 07:47

All in all it would help if GW made a more distinct wording for things happening around To Wound rolls and things happening around Wounds characteristic :roll:

Kerrygan
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Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#14 » Feb 02 2018 08:52

StealthKnightSteg wrote:As I do agree on the normal wounding pattern (successful wounds is after rolling To Wound) I do sense there is a consensus about Mortal wounds that can also be passed on to drones. This is a direct damage thing deducting the W characteristic, but is handled as an automatic successful Wound roll and thus eligible for Saviour Protocols..

Anyway this whole thing is rather ambiguous


Remember que SP triggers when a "enemy attack successfully wound it", so SP can be used against MW from attacks because it was originated by an enemy attack.
I'm not so sure about Smite and such.
I don't know if Psychic powers and Stratagems are "enemy attacks".

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Yojimbob
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Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#15 » Feb 02 2018 03:32

Kerrygan wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:As I do agree on the normal wounding pattern (successful wounds is after rolling To Wound) I do sense there is a consensus about Mortal wounds that can also be passed on to drones. This is a direct damage thing deducting the W characteristic, but is handled as an automatic successful Wound roll and thus eligible for Saviour Protocols..

Anyway this whole thing is rather ambiguous


Remember que SP triggers when a "enemy attack successfully wound it", so SP can be used against MW from attacks because it was originated by an enemy attack.
I'm not so sure about Smite and such.
I don't know if Psychic powers and Stratagems are "enemy attacks".


They definitely count.

Kerrygan
Shas'Saal
Posts: 118

Re: Commander w/ Tenacious Survivor and Shield Drones

Post#16 » Feb 02 2018 05:13

Yojimbob wrote:
Kerrygan wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:As I do agree on the normal wounding pattern (successful wounds is after rolling To Wound) I do sense there is a consensus about Mortal wounds that can also be passed on to drones. This is a direct damage thing deducting the W characteristic, but is handled as an automatic successful Wound roll and thus eligible for Saviour Protocols..

Anyway this whole thing is rather ambiguous


Remember que SP triggers when a "enemy attack successfully wound it", so SP can be used against MW from attacks because it was originated by an enemy attack.
I'm not so sure about Smite and such.
I don't know if Psychic powers and Stratagems are "enemy attacks".


They definitely count.


I was unable to find the GW's definition of attack.
I think that they would count, but I'm not sure.

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