Arrow's Fio Log: Building the Arrow Pattern XV8

Post long term projects you have devised for your Tau or other hobby projects.
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Agentarrow
Fio'Vre
Posts: 1594

Re: Arrow's Fio Log: Building the Arrow Pattern XV8

Post#171 » Dec 15 2016 10:49

It's been a while since my last update. Things have been amazingly busy, and I may be starting a new job. I'm going to hear back tomorrow, fingers crossed.

I received a new Shapeways shipment so I thought I would make a short article about how to properly build a printed model. I've been getting a few questions on the matter, and hopefully this will clear things up for people.

The first thing you always want to do is inventory your parts. Shapeways does their best, but sometimes they miss things. On occasion you will get extra parts. My theory is that they printed extras for parts which they were worried may not print well, and they came out fine so you got the extras. No confirmation on that, but I have a few extra parts for the Arrow pattern for that reason.
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The models are printed using either a laser sintering method, which involves laying down a bed of powder, then tracing it with a laser to melt the powder into a final structure, or a UV cure method in which resin is placed and cured under UV light, and a waxy support structure is used. In a sintering process, the unused powder is left behind as support structure to hold up the model as it is printed and prevent it from warping or collapsing in on itself.
After printing they are put into a sort of bath. I believe it is a sonic oil bath to break up the support structure trapped inside. They also go in with hand tools to clean up the inside. They don't always get everything though, so you'll need to check any crevices and holes for a slimy mixture of unmelted plastic powder and oil. I use my airbrush cleaning needle since it has a very fine point and just clean the needle thoroughly afterward. In a pinch a toothpick will work. Small brushes like those used to clean an airbrush can be useful as well, but it depends on the structure of the print.
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The oil residue left after the print can be harmful to your primer and paint. It can lead to bonding issues much like uncured resin spots on a Forge World model. I have had varied results with models over the years with some arriving with no residue, and some arriving in a bag which is easily 25% oil. I'm not sure why, there seems to be little rhyme or reason. Either way I always clean them. The model I sent out for our challenge I pre-cleaned and inspected before mailing out, making sure I sent out the best prints as a prize.
Here is my cleaning method: I have two bowls of warm (not hot, it can warp the print) water. One is mixed with dish soap, and one is just water. I soak the parts in the dish soap for about 15-30 minutes, then scrub them with a soft bristle toothbrush and then move them to the clean water for a rinse. I'll clean the toothbrush and scrub them a second time before placing them on a towel to dry. I like to let them sit overnight in the air if possible to let any residue I may have missed crystallize and turn a chalky white color, which I can then scrape off and repeat the cleaning process if necessary. If you are thorough with your scrubbing the first time this will not be an issue.
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The next part is the fun part: test fitting. Depending on the model, things may be just dry fit, or they may be tacked in place. I always like to test things before final gluing. Sometimes measurements are wrong, so the print doesn't quite line up and you have to improvise. Depending on the material, modifications may or may not be easy. Frosted detail plastic from Shapeways is very brittle, and may shatter in unexpected ways when you try to cut it. I find it easiest when I need to modify these to clip them large, then sand to shape gently. It definitely takes a while, not unlike working with pewter models back in the day in its slow pace, but you have to do what you have to do sometimes.
White strong and flexible is easier to work with by far, but has a surface finish which I guarantee will require some work to get it where you want it. Moddler LLC has a great detail plastic which is about as easy to work with as resin. I used it on my Riptide conversion and would still be using it if the price was competitive. For big prints, such as Hollywood props, Moddler does some great work. Their smaller prints are definitely high quality but not close to the price of other printing services. There are a couple others I plan to try out, including one suggested to me by our own Paulson, which I simply haven't had the time or money to check out at the moment. I'm planning to rectify that in January.
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There are some small gaps which I will adjust with greenstuff to make a seamless model.
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Here the pictures are a bit washed out. In real life this is a seriously cool looking test fit. I have some better shots later. I also realized just how dusty this model is from sitting out without getting worked on until I had weapons for it. I need to do a little cleaning before I paint this guy.
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Once things are test fit and modified satisfactorily, I go ahead and prime them. This was my first time printing these particular parts, so I wasn't sure what to expect on the surface. It's hard to tell when they're still translucent just how smooth they are. It looks like these were printed oriented vertically, so they were printed with the back at the bottom, up to the barrel at the top or vice-versa. The orientation of printing can have a serious effect on how smooth the print is. Features which are printed all in one layer will tend to be smoother than features printed in several layers. I would have preferred if these had been printed on their side, so things would be smoother in more places but that choice is made by the Shapeways technicians, and how they feel the product will print best. Don't be afraid to make changes at this point in the game. You can still sand and scrape to get smooth faces if you desire. The primer will actually fill in the gaps to a point, which makes your job easier, but I still recommend a filler like liquid greenstuff.
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In about a week I should be back to my projects full force. I can't wait to show you all the finished Arrow Pattern, my turrets, and the 11 XV15 suits I've been working on in a scheme based on Macknight's. Cheers for the tip that the transfer sheets fit the shoulder pad circles.

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Tearphoenix
Shas'La
Posts: 126

Re: Arrow's Fio Log: Building the Arrow Pattern XV8

Post#172 » Dec 15 2016 11:29

Great article! I have been eying some various shape ways parts for conversions lately, so thank you for taking the time to put this together.

I think this would be one worth making a sticky somewhere.
Not a bad idea.
>>--AA-->

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Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1016

Re: Arrow's Fio Log: Building the Arrow Pattern XV8

Post#173 » Dec 16 2016 09:22

Great article
As a shapeways user myself, I want to tell some additional details:
Frosted details is not laser sintered like White Strong &Flexible is. it is a resin cured by UV light on a wax support (thus removing the need of structure other UV process like Form printers needs). The oily effect on FUD is mostly the waxy support that is not totally heat removed. Warm water (60°C, 130F) can melt the wax and dishwashing liquid helps it to be removed. Ultrasonic cleaner with warm water does well too if you have one. Then you can remove the floating wax on an absorbing paper and retrieve your parts.
Or you can put the parts in a hot and vented area for some days... Going exterior with hair blower if you are a little hurry, but don't warm too much the resin.
WSF is almost clean most of time, but its surface is not great to paint without a serious coating.

Shape ways also allows now designers to define a printing orientation, but globally. So you need to orient all the parts in an item according to the orientation you select.

A topic about shape ways cleaning is also in my schedule.
Excellent to hear, I look forward to it. I also forgot that FUD and FXD are UV cured resin, i had it in my head that they were sintered. Post amended.
>>--AA-->

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Demorte
Gue'La
Posts: 185

Re: Arrow's Fio Log: Building the Arrow Pattern XV8

Post#174 » Dec 16 2016 10:34

Time for Demorte chime in since I use 3d parts too :)


I agree 100% with everything AgentArrow has said its spot on! End of line.... :biggrin:

The parts utilized in the above post I have personally ordered, used and reordered. They are great quality but much like all products there are some things to be aware of when working with the pieces.

Be careful how much pressure you apply when handling the parts. Pressing hard on them, or cutting into them roughly can cause them to snap in places you didn't intent. Its not a flaw in the parts, its just the nature of the material used. The GW plastic can handle a lot more rough handling then the 3d printed parts.

AA said it already I wanna say it again anyway! Clean the parts! Your paint will peel off if you don't just like resin.

Shapeways has a great replacement system I had one part arrived miss printed and all I had to do was take a picture of the item and submit a claim. They shipped out replacement parts within 2 day no hassel. So don't freak if you get a part that is a bit messed up compared to the other ones.

Can tell you I love 3d conversion parts they are amazing.


Arrow! I see that base debris on your 2nd crisis suit dude! :) Stepping up the basing game! Exciting to see what you do with them.

Also where you get those other parts I noticed you have some different heads, back pieces and arms

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Ironsky
Shas'La
Posts: 133

Re: Arrow's Fio Log: Building the Arrow Pattern XV8

Post#175 » Dec 16 2016 01:21

Demorte wrote:...

Also where you get those other parts I noticed you have some different heads, back pieces and arms
If you are referring to the unprimed model, the resin parts are from a Forgeworld XV84. Continuing on from that theme, Arrow how well do the new XV8 parts fit with Forgeworld kits?

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Agentarrow
Fio'Vre
Posts: 1594

Re: Arrow's Fio Log: Building the Arrow Pattern XV8

Post#176 » Dec 16 2016 09:10

Ironsky wrote:
Demorte wrote:...

Also where you get those other parts I noticed you have some different heads, back pieces and arms
If you are referring to the unprimed model, the resin parts are from a Forgeworld XV84. Continuing on from that theme, Arrow how well do the new XV8 parts fit with Forgeworld kits?


The black primed suit is all GW plastic XV8 except for the weapons. The unprimed suit is a Forge World XV84, but I swapped out the original torso for the new version. I prefer the XV84 for commander suits. It's a 20 point upgrade, but includes a markerlight, which works for me because I run Mark'Os.

The ankles need some work to fit properly, but I believe that was also an issue with the old XV8 kit. The shoulder and hip joints fit perfectly. The neck fits, but I think the new joint is a little smaller than the old one. I prefer having my converted jet packs, as I think they fit the shoulders better than the originals.

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Ironsky
Shas'La
Posts: 133

Re: Arrow's Fio Log: Building the Arrow Pattern XV8

Post#177 » Dec 17 2016 05:33

My apologies. Some of the resin parts are from Forgeworld :P
Agentarrow wrote:
The ankles need some work to fit properly, but I believe that was also an issue with the old XV8 kit. The shoulder and hip joints fit perfectly. The neck fits, but I think the new joint is a little smaller than the old one. I prefer having my converted jet packs, as I think they fit the shoulders better than the originals.
- Good to know, I haven't yet made the upgrade to the new XV8 kits, but as I use Forgeworld components in all my suits the fact that they will still be compatible is promising

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Paulson
Shas'Ui
Posts: 14

Re: Arrow's Fio Log: Building the Arrow Pattern XV8

Post#178 » Dec 26 2016 08:57

The parts are all looking very nice. If you try out any of the higher end prints they are a bit more like a ceramic in feel and it's preferable to file them since they can chip. I do use a hobby knife on mine at times to clean off some of the left over support nubs but you'll want to go at it very gently until you have a feel for the material. Lots of tiny little shavings instead of trying to remove a bunch of material at once.

An advantage for those prints is they can be molded in most brands of silicone without needing to be primed which helps generate a very sharp casting. Additionally since they are a solid color it's easier to see while cleaning. I find that it's best to scrape or file them a little at a time then wet it several times in between with a tiny amount of water and a toothbrush. It doesn't need a full on soaking but the quick rinse in water really helps see the detail better and takes off the dust. (You can also wet sand them for an extra smooth surface.)

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Agentarrow
Fio'Vre
Posts: 1594

Re: Arrow's Fio Log: Building the Arrow Pattern XV8

Post#179 » Jan 04 2017 12:13

It's not exactly Tau, but here's a shot of what I'm currently working on.
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Ironsky
Shas'La
Posts: 133

Re: Arrow's Fio Log: Building the Arrow Pattern XV8

Post#180 » Jan 05 2017 01:09

It certainly isn't Tau! Still very nice though. I've not seen white Skitarri before, its a good look for them, and ties in very well with the basing scheme you are using.

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