[ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Discuss and develop your army list amongst new players and veterans alike.
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Impulse
Shas'Saal
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#19 » Jul 14 2017 12:13

Yojimbob wrote:
Impulse wrote:I don't have a Devilfish, and I'm really only in to the Battlesuits so I don't want to buy one if I don't have to. Will I need one when I go for 1000-2000 pt events? Are breacher teams just unfieldable without one?

So the key with strike teams is to always go for 15in rapid fire. What do I do if i get charged?

Like, for real I have played one game of 40k ever and all I did was get really lucky with shooting 1st round.


Breachers are really really good at roasting MEQ/TEQ units and are really cheap. They can go in a transport that ends up being a tough nut to crack and adds a forward moving element to your army. In my opinion breachers should never be taken without one.
Vespid and plasma suits (not recommended) fill this same type of role eliminating those types of threats with the added benefit that vespid can deep strike. Vespid are slightly more vulnerable whereas the breachers can get back in their transport the following turn but they are infantry so searching for cover is very good for them.

Strike teams with a fireblade put out an amazing amount of hurt at 15". If you get charged, leave combat and open fire with the next squad.


What is MEQ TEQ and Plasma suits? I can't find them in Xenos 2.

Back on track, so I'd field my fire warriors in two ranks. Fall back with one of it gets charged and then the 2nd rank can still shoot which ensures at least one squad shoots each turn? What does the fireblade do/go?

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Glarblar
Shas'Saal
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#20 » Jul 14 2017 12:28

MEQ = marine equivalent ie Toughness 4 / 3+ armor save
TEQ = Terminator equivalent ie Toughness 4 / 2 wounds / 2+ armor save / 5+ invulnerable save

Plasma suits is XV8 suits with 3 plasma rifles equiped

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Yojimbob
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#21 » Jul 14 2017 12:29

Impulse wrote:
What is MEQ TEQ and Plasma suits? I can't find them in Xenos 2.

Back on track, so I'd field my fire warriors in two ranks. Fall back with one of it gets charged and then the 2nd rank can still shoot which ensures at least one squad shoots each turn? What does the fireblade do/go?


Sorry about that! MEQ is Marine equivalent IE Toughness 4 1W with 3+ save and TEQ is Terminator equivalent with T4 2W 2+ save. This is a generic term that encompasses many unit types across the different armies. They are common targets of how hard it is to kill something as marines tend to be the heaviest armored things in general.

Plasma suits are Plasma rifle equipped crisis suits. They are a good strength and ap weapon with a relatively poor ROF or rate of fire. They are super cheap but the problem is the poor ballistic skill of crisis suits paired with the low number of shots makes it a relatively ineffective weapon against many types of targets though they still have a place at putting terminators on their backs.

Fireblade will hide just outside or between multiple squads of Strike team firewarriors so he can not be shot nor charged while giving his buff to as many units as possible.

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Impulse
Shas'Saal
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#22 » Jul 14 2017 12:35

Yojimbob wrote:
Impulse wrote:
What is MEQ TEQ and Plasma suits? I can't find them in Xenos 2.

Back on track, so I'd field my fire warriors in two ranks. Fall back with one of it gets charged and then the 2nd rank can still shoot which ensures at least one squad shoots each turn? What does the fireblade do/go?


Sorry about that! MEQ is Marine equivalent IE Toughness 4 1W with 3+ save and TEQ is Terminator equivalent with T4 2W 2+ save. This is a generic term that encompasses many unit types across the different armies. They are common targets of how hard it is to kill something as marines tend to be the heaviest armored things in general.

Plasma suits are Plasma rifle equipped crisis suits. They are a good strength and ap weapon with a relatively poor ROF or rate of fire. They are super cheap but the problem is the poor ballistic skill of crisis suits paired with the low number of shots makes it a relatively ineffective weapon against many types of targets though they still have a place at putting terminators on their backs.

Fireblade will hide just outside or between multiple squads of Strike team firewarriors so he can not be shot nor charged while giving his buff to as many units as possible.


I'm not in a position to buy crisis suits right now, even if they are super affordable in the Start Collecting box.

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Impulse
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#23 » Jul 16 2017 11:22

Is it better to spam gun drones or are Strike Teams worth it? What about Drone Controller? Or including Cadre Fireblades? Or am I worrying too much?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#24 » Jul 17 2017 01:27

Glarblar wrote:I guess so... you would just need to make sure to resolve the ML before the Ion Rifles

Yup, that's how it works. There's a 25% chance that you miss with both Markerlights (and as such have to fire the Ion Rifles without Markerlight support) so I tend to shoot the Ion Rifles at a pre-marked target and then fire the two Markerlights at something else. Using the squad's own Markerlights to support their Ion Rifles is a very viable tactic though.

Impulse wrote:What makes Ion Rifles better than Rail Rifles? What makes Strike Teams better than Breacher teams? If I'm not taking a missile pod because it limits mobility then how should those squads be moving?

Mathematically, Ion Rifles (when overcharged) offer slightly more damage output over Rail Rifles against most targets, have the added bonuses of have more +2 Strength, +15" effective range, +1 shot, and cost 18 fewer points. The only advantage of the Rail Rifle is the extra armor penetration. Given the Ion Rifle's great damage, long range, and high volume of shots, it is a superior choice over the Rail Rifle.

Impulse wrote:Is it better to spam gun drones or are Strike Teams worth it? What about Drone Controller? Or including Cadre Fireblades?

You need a mix of the two. Fire Warrior Strike Teams have longer range, better accuracy, can choose their own targets, and are Troops choices (hello Command Points!) while Gun Drones have higher durability, speed, and shot volume, and importantly cannot choose their own targets. In my lists, I bring 48 Fire Warrors and 24 Gun Drones, although some people prefer more Gun Drones. Drone Controllers and Cadre Fireblades are excellent, but you need to make sure they buff a lot of units! For example, Drone Controllers that buff fewer than 6 Drones are probably not effective. Likewise, a Cadre Fireblade should buff at least 10 Fire Warriors, preferably more.

Impulse wrote:Am I worrying too much?

Not at all! Advanced Tau Tactica is all about discussing strategy, honing army lists, and helping new players. We'll continue to overthink, worry, and obsess about the Tau until the Tyranids consume the galaxy!

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Impulse
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#25 » Jul 17 2017 01:30

How do you take that many fire warriors and drones in a 500pt list? Or are you saying that's what I should be building towards for the inevitable 2000pt ITC list? And how do I get extra CP at 500pts besides Outrider?

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Arka0415
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#26 » Jul 17 2017 03:05

Impulse wrote:How do you take that many fire warriors and drones in a 500pt list? Or are you saying that's what I should be building towards for the inevitable 2000pt ITC list? And how do I get extra CP at 500pts besides Outrider?


In a broader sense, most units are balanced and/or work best at 1500-2000 points. I'd bring 48+ Fire Warriors at 2000pts, but at 500... I'm not sure. You can't make a truly competitive 500pt list, because there are some armies that cannot really be beaten at 500pts, unless you specifically write your list to beat them (which isn't fair play). For example, there are lists that bring almost 100 Tyranid Termagauts at 500pts, or one single massive Imperial walker, that sort of thing.

At 500 points, be sure to bring units that are good (i.e. you still want to avoid Sniper Drones, Krootox, Breachers on foot, etc.) but remember there is no meta at 500pts, and likely never will be.

If you're interested in more Command Points, a gunline-style army can work too. Consider this:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blaster, 2x Gun Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 3x Ion Rifles (68)

Total: 502 - Command Points: 6 (Battalion Detachment)

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Impulse
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#27 » Jul 17 2017 03:09

Arka0415 wrote:
Impulse wrote:How do you take that many fire warriors and drones in a 500pt list? Or are you saying that's what I should be building towards for the inevitable 2000pt ITC list? And how do I get extra CP at 500pts besides Outrider?


In a broader sense, most units are balanced and/or work best at 1500-2000 points. I'd bring 48+ Fire Warriors at 2000pts, but at 500... I'm not sure. You can't make a truly competitive 500pt list, because there are some armies that cannot really be beaten at 500pts, unless you specifically write your list to beat them (which isn't fair play). For example, there are lists that bring almost 100 Tyranid Termagauts at 500pts, or one single massive Imperial walker, that sort of thing.

At 500 points, be sure to bring units that are good (i.e. you still want to avoid Sniper Drones, Krootox, Breachers on foot, etc.) but remember there is no meta at 500pts, and likely never will be.

If you're interested in more Command Points, a gunline-style army can work too. Consider this:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blaster, 2x Gun Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 3x Ion Rifles (68)

Total: 502 - Command Points: 6 (Battalion Detachment)


To re-iterate my OP: it's an ultra casual new person league and my list is restricted by what I actually own.

Moving right along, I'm SUPER interested in your suggestion of a Commander with 4 Fusion Blasters. Can you walk me though your thought process and how you'd use her?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#28 » Jul 17 2017 03:22

Impulse wrote:To re-iterate my OP: it's an ultra casual new person league and my list is restricted by what I actually own.

It can't hurt to think a bit about the bigger picture though. Trust me, you'll be thinking about 2000 points before long! I remember back in 2007 when I started Tau, I picked up a box of Fire Warriors as a fun little art project... then met some people who played... made a 250pt list... than a 750... the hobby has a way of sneaking up on you! :P

Impulse wrote:Moving right along, I'm SUPER interested in your suggestion of a Commander with 4 Fusion Blasters. Can you walk me though your thought process and how you'd use her?

Ah, this is an interesting pick for sure! Tau are all about long range, right? Check this out though:

-Commanders hit on 2+, and it's easy to get them to re-roll 1s with a single Markerlight hit. That brings their accuracy up from 83% to 97%
-Fusion Blasters deal D6 damage (the highest of any Tau weapon) and have AP-4, which ignore almost all armor saves
-The Commander can use Manta Strike to arrive >9" away from an enemy target
-Fusion Blasters have an 18" range

So, you drop the Commander in via Manta Strike, and land about 18" from an enemy tank, monster, or exposed character. Then put one Markerlight on that target, and unleash four S8AP-4 shots on it. They'll never know what hit them. You'll hit all four times, and since your target will likely be S6-S8, you'll get 3-4 wounds and they'll probably not get a save (unless they have base Sv2+). So that's 2D6 or 3D6 damage!! You can easily destroy tanks or monsters in a single shot, and if the target survives with a wound or two left over, finish it off with Ion Rifles, Seeker Missiles, or any other long-range weapon from a different unit.

The 4x Fusion Blaster Commander ("Fusion Commander" or "QFC") is the final word in priority-target alpha strike. Not a necessary thing to include in an army list, but certainly one of the top-performing Tau units in the Index!

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Impulse
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#29 » Jul 17 2017 03:28

Seems awesome. I don't understand Manta Strike though. It's just a fancy way of dictating how some units can be deployed, not a ship or something right?

What are the pros and cons of taking quadfusion commander over a Coldstar? Everyone so far has suggested a Shield Generator, but 4x Fusion Cannons wouldn't allow for that.

And while I'm mindful of growing my army, that won't be happening for at least a month. The 500pt league is right now. So I'm only interested in that for the moment.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#30 » Jul 17 2017 05:09

Impulse wrote:Seems awesome. I don't understand Manta Strike though. It's just a fancy way of dictating how some units can be deployed, not a ship or something right?

"Manta Strike" is a fancy way to describe both how something is deployed, and how something arrives on the battlefield. For example, you deploy the unit (XV8s, Commanders, etc.) in the hold of a giant dropship called a Manta (think the Tau version of an AC130). The hold of this hypothetical Manta is represented by placing the models not on the tabletop, but on a side table, in your case/box, or something like that. On any turn you choose, the Manta makes a quick pass over the battlefield and drops off the unit- it is simply placed on the battlefield in any location you choose which is at least 9" from enemy models.[/quote]

This is a really powerful trick for three reasons. First, you can have your units show up exactly where and when you need them. Second, you can keep them off the table if you don't get first turn- a model that's not on the table can't be targeted, so the models are totally safe. Third, during the deployment phase (pre-battle) you can be tricky and deploy these into the Manta hold before you place any models on the table. In my 2000pt list, I have 4 units with Manta strike- so, I can keep the location of my army 'secret' for a while while we alternate deployemts. They place a unit, I place a unit in the Manta hold, they place a unit... on and on until I know where a good chunk of their army is, but the still don't see any Tau models on the table. In this way you can easily "refuse a flank" and get an advantage on one side of battlefield, then use your long-ranged units to engage all parts of the tabletop from a relative position of strength.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblique_order


Impulse wrote:What are the pros and cons of taking quadfusion commander over a Coldstar? Everyone so far has suggested a Shield Generator, but 4x Fusion Cannons wouldn't allow for that.

This is a good question! The Coldstar Commander has two important differences as compared to the regular Commander: It's one of the fastest and most agile units in the game (up to 40" move with no minimum move!!) but is only equipped with two weapons and cannot equip any additional weapons. The speed also means that the Coldstar cannot be realistically protected by Drones, since it is five times faster than them!

So, what does this mean for Coldstar loadouts? You get two Support System slots, but no additional weapons, so you need to make those Systems count. Shield Generators are great because the Coldstar can't be protected by Drones, and as such needs an alternative method of increasing its durabilty. The Advanced Targeting System is also a great option, since it increases the Coldstar's firepower. Finally, the Target Lock is great since you can move the full 40" without suffering the -1 penalty to hit. Usually, the Shield Generator + Advanced Targeting System is the best combination of upgrades for the Coldstar.

The Commander doesn't have the limitation on the number of weapons- it can take the full four. It also moves 8" which is just as fast as Drones, making it easy to protect Commanders with Drones. A Commander with 4x Fusion Blasters and 2x Shield Drones is a good "min-max" unit. You maximize firepower and minimize durability, but get extra durability from the Shield Drones. After all, the Commander will probably deal an obscene amount of damage even if it's destroyed on the following turn.

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Impulse
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#31 » Jul 17 2017 05:14

I thought I couldn't be any more excited about this game and then you come along and write a post like that.

Thanks for clearing up Manta Strike. I was losing my mind trying to find the points and statline for a Manta.

Now I'm confused about Shield Drones. I thought the general consensus was that they were awful because of the Savior Protocols Mortal Wound nerf. What am I missing?

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Arka0415
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#32 » Jul 17 2017 05:50

Impulse wrote:I thought I couldn't be any more excited about this game and then you come along and write a post like that.

Thanks for clearing up Manta Strike. I was losing my mind trying to find the points and statline for a Manta.


You're welcome! If you have any questions at all, I'd be happy to explain anything or share my opinion on anything. Tau have loads of interesting tactics at our disposal- you'd be surprised how many real-world tactics we can employ too! The oblique order strategy is a trick uniquely-suited to the Tau- any army can use an oblique order deployment (basically stack your whole army in the left or right third of the table) by deploying models off-table (all armies have some kind of rule like Manta Strike) and tricking the enemy into a wide deployment while they castle up on one side. However, only the Tau have the effective range needed to hit the enemy wherever they are on the table. Obliterate the enemy models closest to you, and then while the rest walk toward your army you can pick them off at long range.

Another good tactic from history is one we could call a "reverse" triplex acies:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_infantry_tactics#Deployment_for_combat

Historically, the ancient Roman army famously fought in three lines- the front line was inexperienced screening troops, then heavy infantry, then experienced veterans. The formation would push forward, and where each line faltered there was always a group in the rear to support. As Tau we don't like to push forward (with infantry) so we can do the triplex acies in reverse. Have screening units- usually Kroot or Gun Drones- in front to absorb charges and provide overwatch firepower, and have two lines of Fire Warriors behind them. If the enemy assaults the screen, the screening units can fall back (Gun Drones excel in this role because they can still shoot) while the units behind them fire into the advancing foe. Each time the enemy consolidates into one of your Fire Warrior squads, that squad can fall back and allow the supporting lines to fire on the enemy. The Tau Sept character Darkstrider multiplies the effectiveness of this formation, allowing every squad to fire while falling back- even squads that had been charged or consolidated into!

Here's my army list by the way, with 4x12 Fire Warriors and 2x6 Gun Drones representing that "reverse" triplex acies formation: http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=25922

Impulse wrote:Now I'm confused about Shield Drones. I thought the general consensus was that they were awful because of the Savior Protocols Mortal Wound nerf. What am I missing?

Ah, I did write "Shield Drones" didn't I! That was a typo (I wrote "Shield Generator" so many times I was thinking about shields I guess! I meant to just say Drones) but this is something we can talk about. Shield Drones are extraordinarily bad at Savior Protocols- their only advantage, their Shield Generator, cannot be used. However, Commanders have an odd relationship with Savior Protocols. Being characters, they cannot be targeted unless the are the closest unit. So, if you have two Drones sitting in front of a Commander, that Commander cannot be shot at until the Drones have been destroyed. When Shield Drones are attacked directly, they can use their Shield Generator perfectly well, because they aren't using Savior Protocols.

So, the only viable use for Shield Drones is actually on Commanders! I still think Gun Drones are more useful overall, but at least on Commanders, Shield Drones become a viable option. In a small game, say 500 points, go with Gun Drones. But at 2000 points or 2500 points, those four Pulse Carbines aren't going to matter much- take Shield Drones instead.

The other viable use for Shield Drones is for guarding other Drones- let's say you have a valuable Drone such as a Guardian Drone or a Grav-Inhibitor Drone. These Drones can be in squads alongside other Drones, and it is usually imperative that they stay alive for as long as possible! By adding Shield Drones (for example, a unit of Pathfinder Drones with 2x Shield Drones and 1x Grav-Inhibitor Drone) we can somewhat extend the lifespan of that single utility Drone.

Otherwise though, you're right- for the purpose of regular Savior Protocols on non-character battlesuits or infantry, Shield Drones are quite useless!

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Impulse
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#33 » Jul 17 2017 06:03

Ugh this is all so cool. Ok so what about markerlights on Strike Team Shas'ui? And what's a good number of people in a unit?

How do I evaluate a good ratio of special weapons (like Ion stuff with Pathfindees) to regular people to drones?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#34 » Jul 17 2017 07:28

Impulse wrote:What about markerlights on Strike Team Shas'ui?

They're the cheapest Markerlights around! If you need a couple more Markerlights, and don't mind losing a few S5 shots (remember a model can't shoot both a Markerlight and a regular weapon), then they're a good pick. There is one drawback though- you can't shoot a Shas'ui's Markerlight, then fire some other squad's weapons, then come back and fire the rest of the Fire Warriors' shots. The Fire Warriors in the Shas'ui's squad can benefit from the Markerlight hit (remember shots are technically fired one at a time, and "fast rolling" i.e. rolling in bulk is just for speed). However, you "activate" a unit, fire all weapons, then "activate" another unit.

Many players, myself included, like to fire all Markerlights first (using Markerlight-only squads like Pathfinders and Marker Drones), and then fire other squads' weapons. This way you can know how many Markerlights have hit which squads before you do any meaningful shooting. Some have to have a few extra Markerlights though (for example, Ion Rifle Pathfinders). So, you can put Markerlights on Fire Warrior Shas'ui, but it's not quite as "clean" since it means declaring shots before all Markerlights have been fired.

There's one other issue too- if you have many squads of Fire Warriors (I use four), it may be annoying to have one squad have a Markerlight while the others do not. Personally, I prefer my squads to be as identically-armed as possible: it gives the opponent no easy answers when assessing priority targets.

In my list, I have two Markerlights on characters, 6 in a Pathfinder unit, 3 each in Pathfinder Teams with Ion Rifles, and one each in the XV8s' Drone groups. I described the general strategy like this in another thread:

Here's my rationale:

Markerlights should be fired in pairs- two shots on 4+ should get you one hit. In my list, I have a Pathfinder squad with 6 Markerlights, two squads with 3 Markerlights, a Fireblade, and Darkstrider.

In any given round of shooting, I select squads A, B, C, D, and E to receive Markerlight hits.

First, the big Pathfinder squad shoots its lights in pairs at enemies A, B, and C. Statistically, one of those pairs should be a double-miss. Let's say it was squad C. Next, another Pathfinder squad shoots 3 Markerlights- one pair at enemy D, and one lone Markerlight at squad C, which went unmarked. Next, the final Pathfinder squad shoots one pair at enemy E, and has a lone light to fire in the case that any of squads A, B, C, or D are unmarked.

With all of this finished, the Fireblade and Darkstrider fire their lights to either double-mark a squad for a Seeker Missile strike, or to make up for other misses.


The two Markerlights in the XV8s' Drone groups are an odd pick, but there's a reason. Sometimes, just sometimes, the enemy will be out of range! For Tau this might be unthinkable but it does happen sometimes. These Markerlights allow me to have some Markerlight support on the enemy's side of the table (since the XV8s use Manta Strike).

So, at the end of the day, a Fire Warrior Shas'ui (Strike, not Breacher) is a good place to put a Markerlight. But there are some things to think about first!


Impulse wrote:What's a good number of people in a unit? How do I evaluate a good ratio of special weapons (like Ion stuff with Pathfindees) to regular people to drones?


Well, this is THE question in Warhammer 40k! How many things do I bring, which things, and in what ratio?

The thing to remember is, you bring units to serve a role. Don't just bring Fire Warriors because they look like a "core unit" or something like that. Each unit has a role, and you must identify the roles you need to fill (usually those roles are anti-infantry, anti-elite, anti-tank, and objective-holder) and select units to fill those roles. For example, let's say you're making a 1000-point list and you start with Longstrike and a 4x Fusion Blaster Commander as your anti-tank units. That's 385 points total. Now you have 605 points to spend on other roles. In general, it's better for squads to have a defined role than to be 'swiss army knives.' That is, unless you have a fantastic 'swiss army knife' (like the Cyclic Ion Blaster). For example, an XV8 squad with one of each weapon can engage any target, but not very well. As the saying goes, "jack of all trades, master of none."

Let's talk about unit sizes.

Large squads have the following strengths:
+ Good targets for buffs
+ Decreases number of "drops" and increases your chance of going first
+ Reduces the number of Victory Points your army can give up

Small squads have the following strengths:
+ Easy to fill up Detachments and get bonus Command Points
+ More resistant to Leadership Tests, since smalls are often destroyed before any models flee
+ Cheap and efficient

In a synergistic gunline that uses aura buffs to increase firepower, you want large squads since they interact positively with aura buffs. Units that serve roles in the far backfield (and are often "out of sight, out of mind") small squads are more ideal. A good rule of thumb is, keep squads to 4 models or more and don't spend more than about 400 points on a single unit. There are exceptions of course but in general squads should be large enough not to give up Victory Points too easily and small enough that they don't become- just imagine how annoying it would be to use a squad of 9 XV8s... let alone how much enemy fire that squad would attract!

When it comes to wargear (Ion Rifles, for example), if you can take only a few items, you should take them all. An Ion Rifle only has a net cost of 4 points (since it replaces a Markerlight), so you should always take all three. This is "min-maxing"- if a squad is going to have Ion Rifles, it might as well have as many as possible. Of course, if you want Markerlights, then don't take any Ion Rifles. As such, 5x Pathfinders w/ 3x Ion Rifles is a good loadout, while 5x Pathfinders w/ 1x Ion Rifle won't be very effective.

Likewise, with XV8s, use every weapon/support system slot. They can take 0-3 weapons or support systems, but don't field a battlesuit with just one or two guns. You paid the base cost, get the most "bang for your buck" and give that chassis as many guns as possible.

However, remember that upgrades cost points, and those points pile up. For example, an un-upgraded squad of Stealthsuits costs 90 points. If you give that squad every upgrade, it costs 161 points. Almost double! Very few units in the Tau army can fall into the "too much wargear" trap, but many Imperium and Chaos armies do. Similarly, you can buy a big squad of support Drones for a Pathfinder or Fire Warrior squad... or you could just get more Fire Warriors and Pathfinders! Often, you will see army lists posted here on ATT that are full of lonely Drones, extra wargear, Support Turrets, and other extraneous/inefficient upgrades. These lists aren't "streamlined", and an ideal Tau list should take just what it needs.

About the ratio of "regular people to drones", remember that Drones need to serve a role, and work better in large squads. Sure, you can give a Fire Warrior team two Shield Drones, but adding two more Fire Warriors would be a better idea. Likewise, you could give a 3x XV8 team one Drone to follow it around, but that Drone would likely be killed very quickly. Here are general rules of thumb for using Drones with units:

- Bring 2 Drones per XV8
- Do not bring any Drones with a Coldstar Commander
- Do not (usually) bring Drones with an infantry character
- Do not add any Drones to Fire Warrior or Breacher squads
- Do not use Drone Support Turrets unless you really like staying still
- Keep Tactical Drone squads to 6 as a viable minimum, bring more if possible
- Pairs of Drones are only viable on Commanders, Stealthsuits, or Vehicles

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Impulse
Shas'Saal
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#35 » Jul 17 2017 07:40

Cheese and crackers that is a lot to take in. You mentioned stealth suits so let's talk about them. My inclination is to put ATS on 2 Shas'ui with Burst Cannons, and put the big pew pew (and no equips) on the other one.

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Yojimbob
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Re: 500pt list help

Post#36 » Jul 17 2017 01:25

I'm in a similar 500 point escalation league and I bring a slightly aggressive list that has me 3-0 against plague marines, wraithguard spam, and a flyrant with 30ish hormagaunts so it handles large numbers as well as elite units well. It is as follows:

QFC
Devilfish w/ 2 gun drones
5 man breacher
5 man pathfinder w/ 3 rail rifles
5 man vespid

The list is 3 drops putting the breachers and pathfinders in the fish and charging up at stuff to unload breachers and screen for the pathfinders with rail rifles. Vespid grab obectives and usually deploy on the board and let the QFC drop in wherever either to snag a point or draw an enemy away from the bulk of the force. Might not be a beginner list but it's a tough nut to crack and has been extremely versatile for me.

Something a little less aggressive might be what Arka suggested by I would trim down the squads a little and add a min squad of vespid for mobility since you'll want to snag objectives in most missions. Another option would be a coldstar instead of the regular commander for speedy objective grabbing in a low points game.

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