[1850] Mont'ka List

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Denirosek
Por'La
Posts: 57

[1850] Mont'ka List

Post#1 » Dec 19 2016 09:49

Greetings and salutations fellow Commanders. I am preparing an army for another edition of the tournament I participated in last summer. This time I am much more experienced in Warhammer and through my battles I've found out that I definitely fare much better in Mont'ka than Kau'yon tactics and so I've decided to build my detachment accordingly. The rules of the tournament are simple, that it's 4 detachments (CAD, Allied, Formations) max, 1850 points.

Some of you would rather take the initiative and force the enemy to adapt to your own strategies, while I like my army to be versatile and be able to counter any threat. Therefore I have composed my army with many specialised units that will have to work in perfect synergy, I don't like to leave things to the luck.

My list looks as follows:
Null-Maiden Task Force (75 pts)
Sister of Silence Squad: 5x Sister of Silence with Executioner Greatblade

Optimised Stealth Cadre (735 pts)
XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuits (435 pts):
Bonding Knife Ritual
2x Ghostkeel Shas'vre with Cyclic Ion Raker and twin-linked Flamer, Early Warning Override, Target Lock
1x Ghostkeel Shas'vre with Cyclic Ion Raker and twin-linked Flamer, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker

2x XV25 Stealth Battlesuits (2x 150 pts):
3x Stealth Shas'ui, Stealth Shas'vre, Fusion Blaster, Markerlight and target lock, Homing beacon

Retaliation Cadre (1040 pts)
Farsight Enclaves

Commander (159 pts):
XV8 Commander Crisis Suit, 2x Marker Drones, Command and Control Node, Drone Controller, Multi-sensor Spector Suite, Seismic Fibrillator Node, Flamer, Neuroweb System Jammer

XV104 Riptide Battlesuits (221 pts):
Riptide Shas'vre with Ion Accelerator and twin-linked Fusion Blaster, Early Warning Override, Earth Caste Pilot Array

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits (381 pts):
6x Crisis Shas'ui with 2x Plasma Rifle, Target Lock
3x Shield Drone
5x Marker Drone

2x XV8 Crisis Battlesuits (2x 33pts)
Crisis Shas'ui with 2x Flamer

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits (213 pts):
2x Broadside with twin-linked High-Yield Missile Pod and twin-linked Smart Missile System, Target Lock
1x Broadside with twin-linked High-Yield Missile Pod and twin-linked Smart Missile System

That's 1850 points.

I have nine markerlight shooting units in total, 7 BS5 marker drones (as Commander is going to go with the Burning Eyes-D obviously) and 2BS4 (with Wall of Mirrors) Stealth Shas'vres, which should be sufficient if not abundant, as except Riptide all units have either BS4 at least or twin-linked weapons and both the Stealth Cadre and Burning Eyes have Ignores Cover special rule. I could switch some Marker Drones for Gun Drones, but do I honestly need more S5 AP5?

My general strategy is to infiltrate near the enemy units with the Stealth Suits and HALO Deep Strike the Retaliation Cadre to annihilate everything that can be of any danger then jump away with my all-suits army (apart from poor Broadsides who can't jump). I still have to decide whether it's better to have the Ghostkeels on the table since the start, or Deep Strike them in the second turn as well, but I think it will depend on the kind of enemy I will have to face.

As for anti-psyker weaponry, I have decided to go with the Sister of Silence instead of Culexus. They have greater null-zone range, they have more wounds, same movement speed, better save and can actually cause a lot of trouble in close combat. And they're half the price of Culexus. While sure, Culexus can infiltrate and it's quite hard to kill him from the distance, I think the Sister will do his job of keepin psykers at bay just better. Hopefully they won't prove me wrong, but if any of you have any experience with them, I'd love to hear your opinion. The problem with them is that they have to be 6" from my other units and that they're only T3 3+. If you have any ideas with how to make sure they reach their destination safely, I'll be very obliged.

For anti-flyers, I have got Ghoskeel with Velocity Tracker, and hopefully enough markerlights to make twin-linked Broadsides useful against the flyers. It might be not enough, but if I manage to clear the table of the ground units, the sheer amount of heavy dakka ought to deal with these nasty creatures.

For GEQs I have Stealth Suits with a lot of S5 AP5, Cyclic Ion Rakers with their AP4 and Broadsides. That's in total 66 bullets, if my math is good. Plus I have 7 flamers. It should suffice, hopefully.

Against MEQs and TEQs I have the Burning Eyes. 24 S6 AP2 BS4 twin-linked Ignores Cover shots should take down any enemy unit. And even if that's not enough, there's stil Riptide that can blast them to death. And a lot of dakka to test their luck.

With that amount of S7 weapons I should have no problem with taking down Rhinos and other light vehicles, nor should the skimmers be any problem with the Markerlights and Ignores Cover from other rules. Even my Stealth Suits will be able to glance the enemy vehicles, like Dreadnought, to death using the Wall of Mirrors.

I don't have a lot of heavy anti-armour weaponry, likes of melta or S10. Hopefully, three Fusion Blasters (two of them hitting the rear armour) and AP9 Ordnance Riptide should be enough to take down even the Imperial Knight. If not, I will jump away and try again next turn. With 3 Ghostkeels I have 3 turns of hitting the enemy rear armour.

Grav weapons are my personal nemesis, hence I'm counting highly on those cover saves to lead my Stealth Suits safely to the place from where my Crisis Suits can take down these nasty physics-benders.

The army as you can see is extremely mobile, with the Broadsides and the Sisters of Silence being only non-jet pack units, so collecting the Maelstorms shouldn't be much of a problem. It will also help me to get out of the enemy line of sight and minimalise my own losses.

The sheer amount of low-AP Ignores Cover firepower ought to take down most of the enemy bikers, if they happen to attack me, with Sisters of Silence taking down their invisibility, were they to have one. Oh, and pray tell whether Seismic Fibrillator Node is worth considering against such opponents.

As for the enemy hordes of Orks/Tyranids/Daemons, 7 flamers combined with the rest of army's firepower should take down at least a few of these horrid creatures.

The amount of Early Warning Overrides should help me against enemy Drop Pods or spawned Daemons.

Paradoxally, I think the most difficult opponent I could get would be the Tau themselves, as they can completely ignore my cover saves. Hopefully though, any possible opponent won't have the same idea as I have and without markerlight support won't be that strong.

I'm pretty content with the list myself, but I'm not certain about the details so if you have any suggestions, opinions or just kind words, they'll all be very much appreciated. For the Greater Good!
Last edited by Denirosek on Dec 20 2016 07:43, edited 1 time in total.
Prosper, as Tau shall.

Storik
Shas'Saal
Posts: 17

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#2 » Dec 19 2016 11:40

Hi there Denisorek, I think there may be a point issue in your list. The only reason I started poking around is because if you look directly below your post, I just put up a very similar list, and despite having a Drone-Net formation in mine, you seemed to have a few extra suits and the Null-Maiden Task Force. Some of your subtotals appear a little off, for example the OSC looks to be coming in at 738, not 798. You seem to be missing some points in the plasma XV8 squad as well. In fact, to my (albeit fairly green) eyes, you hit 1849 without counting the Null-Maiden Task Force.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong. I'm eagerly waiting to see what people have to say about your list, as it closely parallels what I've put up for feedback.

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Denirosek
Por'La
Posts: 57

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#3 » Dec 20 2016 07:40

I changed the list a few times while creating the post (even drastically) so I might've missed a few places where I wrote down the point cost. I'll check them and correct if necessary. However, I've created the list in the Battlescribe in which it is 1850 so I don't think the list itself is over the limit.

EDIT: Already corrected, I missed the point cost quite a few times (that's what happens when you make a post at 4 AM, not recommend :P ). Thanks for pointing that out, I think it should be alright now.
Prosper, as Tau shall.

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Denirosek
Por'La
Posts: 57

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#4 » Dec 20 2016 02:49

In case anyone was interested, I just tested that list against a Blood Angels fully mechanised army and I annihilated him. There was a lot of bad luck on his part, and some good luck on mine, but by the time the Retaliation Cadre arrived, half his army was already down. I had a lucky shot with one of my melta Stealth Suits penetrating and causing his Land Raider to explode so my Riptide didn't even get to shoot. Ghostkeels are able to take down most of the enemy vehicles alone, but the Stealth Suits were actually far from useless, and the melta suits were invaluable. Unfortunately, the Sisters didn't have much of an opportunity to shine, they got shot at a few times so that only one of them survived, but that was still enough to deny his Librarian.

I'm not claiming that I have found a perfect army list but I'm quite optimistic :D
Prosper, as Tau shall.

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Demorte
Gue'La
Posts: 190

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#5 » Dec 20 2016 10:51

Which units in this Army have the Jump pack special rule?

There is a difference between Jump Packs and Jet Packs you said all the troops but broadsides can jump away. The units in your army, riptides, crisis suits etc. Have Jet Packs but that doesn't make them jump units.

Is just a miss explanation on word play.

Jet packs on page 66 allow jet pack units to roll 2d6 in the assault phase to move.

While Jump packs on page 65 allow for increased movement and other benefits in the Movement phase.

As far as the list is concerned I like your insight on it. Gives some great food for thought :)

Am personally excited to see the sisters in the list. I been considering adding them to my lists too for pyskic protection. Filthy cabals....

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Denirosek
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Posts: 57

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#6 » Dec 21 2016 06:32

Demorte, I am well aware of this distinction and I don't think I used the term "jump pack" anywhere ;) The only unit in the Tau Empire that is Jump Pack Infantry is the Vespid Stingwings, which ass you can see, is not present in my army list :D

And yes, ever since I had to deal with an invisible horde of wolves that my 200 bullets per turn couldn't hit properly I can't imagine building an army without any anti-psyker unit.
Prosper, as Tau shall.

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Demorte
Gue'La
Posts: 190

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#7 » Dec 21 2016 12:54

Denirosek wrote:
My general strategy is to infiltrate near the enemy units with the Stealth Suits and HALO Deep Strike the Retaliation Cadre to annihilate everything that can be of any danger then jump away with my all-suits army (apart from poor Broadsides who can't jump). I still have to decide whether it's better to have the Ghostkeels on the table since the start, or Deep Strike them in the second turn as well, but I think it will depend on the kind of enemy I will have to face.


Right here actually it states Jump twice, again not a big deal as its meaning the Jet Pack move in assault phase.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2680

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#8 » Dec 21 2016 03:48

Demorte wrote:
Denirosek wrote:
My general strategy is to infiltrate near the enemy units with the Stealth Suits and HALO Deep Strike the Retaliation Cadre to annihilate everything that can be of any danger then jump away with my all-suits army (apart from poor Broadsides who can't jump). I still have to decide whether it's better to have the Ghostkeels on the table since the start, or Deep Strike them in the second turn as well, but I think it will depend on the kind of enemy I will have to face.


Right here actually it states Jump twice, again not a big deal as its meaning the Jet Pack move in assault phase.

You do realise that what we do with our Jetpacks is commonly called JSJ (=Jump Shoot Jump), right? I doubt he ever thought about Jump Packs here and most people in this forum wouldn't think about Jump Packs in this context either. ^^

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Demorte
Gue'La
Posts: 190

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#9 » Dec 21 2016 05:44

Yes, I do which is why I have stated that it's not a big thing and I even do touch on it likely just being word play mate in a earlier post.

Terminology wise it can be confusing, if you don't clearly know the difference.

Example space marine player coming into tau hears jump and thinks assault troop with jump packs.

If that player where to start jumping tau troops like assault marines with jump packs then that could create a issue at a gaming table. Which I have personally experienced that exact thing happening.

Again this isn't the point of this thread anyway.

But it is important to be aware of Terminology and rules as written is a big deal.

.....

I am looking into some other ways to protect the sisters better, if there isn't much cover on the board or in your deployment side that can be pretty bad.

I still think they best option point for point even if all they do is live for 1 or 2 turns. Got pykic shrieked without them and had heavy damage to 2 riptides. Other game with them they did a good bubble but where shot pretty hard and died.

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Denirosek
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Posts: 57

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#10 » Dec 22 2016 11:55

That's exactly their problem. Let the enemy focus them and they're dead. That's why my intention is to play very offensively with my Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits so the opponnent has to focus on them rather than the Sisters and count on the Chaos God of Dices. I thought about keeping them in the reserves for a turn or so, but it seems to be pointless when all the opponent needs is one turn of invincible wolves to get into close combat with my Ghostkeels.
Prosper, as Tau shall.

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Demorte
Gue'La
Posts: 190

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#11 » Dec 22 2016 03:05

I may try your tactic and run a more agressive list rather then sit back and shoot stuff list. Will see how next few games play out trying them.

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Denirosek
Por'La
Posts: 57

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#12 » Dec 22 2016 03:29

Sure, I'd love to hear about your experience with it asap :D
Prosper, as Tau shall.

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Denirosek
Por'La
Posts: 57

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#13 » Feb 01 2017 05:40

Given I've had a chance to try the list out, I've had to make a few tweaks.

First of all, I put my Retaliation Cadre into a Dawn Blade Contingent to get those neat to wound and penetration hit re-rolls. Secondly, I had to ditch the Earth Caste Pilot Array, as it was too costly and had to drop one Crisis Suit. I also equipped two of them with double Fusion Blasters to deal better with the Imperial Knights. I also switched the Flamer for my Commander with Vectored Retro-Thrusters to make sure my very costly blob doesn't get stuck in melee. I've also ditched melta weapons and markerlights on the Stealth Suits due to their cost, instead relying completely on the Marker Drones for the Markerlight Support.

For my Auxilliary Formation I have picked the Pirahna Firestream Wing. Two of them are equipped with melta weapons but the biggest advantage of them were most certainly the drones. They were able to create a wall of bodies in front of my army that has allowed me to safely overwatch with all of my units while making sure any other units in the army don't get charged. I've had to face very close-combat oriented armies and Imperial Knights. It was always the latter that were the trouble to me, so I've decided to bring more Melta Weapons.

If placed wisely. I should have 30 S7 shots, 12 S6 and 6 S8 AP1 Melta weapons to deal with the Imperial Knight. 10 of the S7 shots on side or rear (front) armour should make it through, even if 5 of them will get deflected, it makes the IK standing on only one wound. My melta weapons should result in 6 + 2D3 wounds on IK. That's 5 wounds after applying statistical ion shield accuracy.

I'm not sure how much it is the fault of my mistakes or how much it is something in the list that needs improving, but I'm winning only 50% of my battles. If that's my tactical mistakes, I will have to work on them, but if there's something in the list worthy of further improvement, I would very much appreciate your support.
Prosper, as Tau shall.

Watcher on the wall
Shas'Saal
Posts: 75

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#14 » Feb 07 2017 04:42

Sounds very good
My inclination would be to drop the fusion blasters you've put on the piranhas as it makes them a lot more expensive, and 8 S5 shots per models is a lot of firepower, especially as S5 syncs very well with the killing blow bonus

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Denirosek
Por'La
Posts: 57

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#15 » Feb 08 2017 08:04

Thank you for your advise, however, I think it's better they are kept that way. 10 points per Fusion Blaster is still less, than 15 I would have to spend on Fusion Blasters for Crisis suits. It also stacks well with the Formations own Tank Hunter bonus. Plus, when you are facing 4 Imperial Knights, S5 AP5 are of no use, more melta guns are though.
Prosper, as Tau shall.

Watcher on the wall
Shas'Saal
Posts: 75

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#16 » Feb 09 2017 02:37

Very true, I should probably have looked a little closer at who you said you tended to face.
Also I wouldn't be worried too much about not having a perfect win record if this army isn't designed for tournament play; except if you're coming up against significantly harder lists then its probably just you need more time to learn to use it fully, it tends to be quite hard to deploy the Sisters of Silence somewhere where they can have an impact but won't die Turn 1. I'd say your list is good and the only way I can see to make it 'better' would be to add things like a riptide wing, which would completely change how the army plays - not my preferred solution. Out of interest, are there any particular armies you have a lot of trouble against?

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Denirosek
Por'La
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Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#17 » Feb 09 2017 02:26

It is actually designed for tournament plays, I don't know what made you think otherwise, that's why it's difficult for me to face some OP armies. As long as they are not 5 IK or Wolfstar/Wraithspam I can shoot them down, however, what always changes the battle for me are the Imerial Knights. Hence I added some more melta weapons.

From my experience with the Riptides, I don't feel like they are as OP as people say they are. They are difficult to kill, but little more than that. They are a nice source of Heavy AP2 weaponry, but Burning Eyes and Melta weapons do it better, especially if you have a mobile army like mine and you don't have to rely on range that much. They have that S6 AP4 Burst Cannon that can be buffed to shoot 12 bullets with rending, but well, S7 AP4 from Ghostkeel are better and way cheaper, and if I need AP2, I still have the Plasma Guns.
Prosper, as Tau shall.

Watcher on the wall
Shas'Saal
Posts: 75

Re: [1850] Mont'ka List

Post#18 » Feb 10 2017 02:35

I agree that on its own the riptide's damage output can be pretty deceiving, but it does get a lot better in the riptide wing, when it can reliably pump out 12 S6 rending shots a turn (for 185 points/ model, compared to 140 for a ghostkeel), and the secondary weapon system. You get the riptide hailfire attack, which is devastating if you use it the right turn.
However it's true that it doesn't mesh with how the rest if the army plays.

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