Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

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neonmole
Shas'La
Posts: 26

Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#1 » Jan 11 2017 07:05

***Updated list in new post below; scroll down!!!***


Hi Guys,

I am in the process of building a new Tau army to return to the game with.

Thematically Tau as a gunline do not appeal to me at all, I like the idea of Tau a super mobile, precise firepower kind of army. As such, I thought it might be fun to take this to an extreme with this army, and make a Tau army that actually wants to move forward, take objectives, and get in the opponents face.

I am aiming for 1850, and still have some points to spare, but here is the list so far.

CAD

10 Breacher Team
+ Devilfish (SMS, Disruption Pods)

10 Breachers Team
+ Devilfish (SMS, Disruption Pods)

10 Strike Team
+ Devilfish (SMS, Disruption Pods)

10 Strike Team
+ Devilfish (SMS, Disruption Pods)

Optimised Stealth Cadre

Ghostkeel (TL Fusion, Fusion Collider, EWO)
Ghostkeel (TL Fusion, Ion Raker, Target Lock, Vector Tracker)
Ghostkeel (TL Fusion, Ion Raker, Target Lock, Vector Tracker)

This is 1663 so far.

Clearly I am still missing a HQ for the CAD, though I am open to morphing that into Hunter Cadre. That would need some chopping and changing though...

I would be really curious to hear your ideas on this one; how would you fill the last points, or even more dramatically change the list to realise the theme? Very happy to see this evolve....

Thanks!


6 Stealth Team (2 Fusion Blasters)

6 Stealth Team (2 Fusion Blasters)
Last edited by neonmole on Jan 12 2017 12:12, edited 2 times in total.
Scissors is balanced, nerf Paper. - Rock

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2262

Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#2 » Jan 11 2017 07:18

Pretty similar to how I like to play.

To your list in particular:
- Fusion Collider is bad. Totally not worth as main weapon. Consider an Optimised Stealth Cadre if you want to use them against vehicles.
- You're lacking Markerlights (and also a HQ choice in your CAD). Markerlights are important(!) even if they don't directly go into the face of your opponent. They allow your Breacher to actually kill what they aim at so they have at least a slight chance to survive afterwards.
- Crisis Monats with Fusion Blaster or Flamer work fairly well and fit your theme (just don't mix them on the same model!)
- Consider Gun Drones on your Devilfishes in a Hunter Contingent (if you go for a Hunter Cadre you only have to add some Markerlight Drones to have a cheap Hunter Contingent), so you can combine fire from your Devilfish+Breacher/Firewarrior+Drones for a free +1BS
- The Y'vahra from Forgeworld would fit your style as well but is only usuable in a CAD and depending on your local meta might be a bit much

Sirboredalot
Shas
Posts: 1

Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#3 » Jan 11 2017 10:13

With heavy devilfish you might want to try giving a position relay on a ghostkeel. It can give you more options if your on a table with heavy terrain.

Ricordis
Shas'La
Posts: 267

Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#4 » Jan 11 2017 11:58

You can fuse your Troops into a Counterstrike Cadre.
3x Breacher/Striker + Devilfish
1x Pathfinder + Devilfish

- reroll to hit rolls against enemies 3" around objective markers
- Devilfishes are on their first turn fast vehicles

beebo
Shas
Posts: 8

Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#5 » Jan 11 2017 12:15

I think it's worth mentioning that sensor spines are super cheap and particularly useful for all those devilfish. Just a thought.

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Overheal
Shas'Saal
Posts: 150

Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#6 » Jan 11 2017 04:36

Remember that technically speaking you need the Core detachment of a Hunter Cadre before taking Auxillary formations per the codex. This will warrant a battlesuit commander at the very least though Darkstrider or Shadowsun might be good picks also. Commander with Fusion/Flamer would be a decent close range option.

You might could also do with a Piranha team if you like getting in fast and close.

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Reaper13
Shas
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Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#7 » Jan 11 2017 07:30

For a Cad, an ethereal would be a good choice, stick him in the fish' and leave him there. 12 of Storm of fire and that is + the three inches of range extension, because you measure from the fishes hull for that. Also. Pathfinders Pathfinders Pathfinders. You need the marker lights. Ignores cover + The accuracy bonus can be OP. If you have the points left over a suicide crisis with 2 fusion and a stim injector makes for a good chance at a dead vehicle first turn, and is fairly resilient, (FNP) I love the idea behind this list, be sure to post a report on how it does in battle! :evil:
Who says we don't have assault units... Drones :crafty:

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2262

Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#8 » Jan 12 2017 03:42

Overheal wrote:Remember that technically speaking you need the Core detachment of a Hunter Cadre before taking Auxillary formations per the codex. This will warrant a battlesuit commander at the very least though Darkstrider or Shadowsun might be good picks also. Commander with Fusion/Flamer would be a decent close range option.

You might could also do with a Piranha team if you like getting in fast and close.

You confuse Hunter Contingent and Hunter Cadre here. Hunter Cadre IS the core of a Hunter Contingent. Also Darkstrider is no option outside of a CAD.

And please please stop mixing Flamer and Fusion Blaster on suits (or at least recommending them). The only thing they have in common is the relatively short range. Their optimal targets are so far apart it's like day&night. Whenever you use the one weapon properly you wasted the points for the other for at least that turn. While it's not too bad to waste the points for a Flamer (since it's so cheap) it's definitely not good to waste the points for a Fusion Blaster by shooting at GEQs.
Better give him a Cyclic Ion Blaster together with the Fusion Blaster if you want to mix different weapons. Or even a Plasma Rifle so you can at least threaten TEQs properly if you aren't going tank hunting.


Reaper13 wrote:For a Cad, an ethereal would be a good choice, stick him in the fish' and leave him there. 12 of Storm of fire and that is + the three inches of range extension, because you measure from the fishes hull for that. Also. Pathfinders Pathfinders Pathfinders. You need the marker lights. Ignores cover + The accuracy bonus can be OP. If you have the points left over a suicide crisis with 2 fusion and a stim injector makes for a good chance at a dead vehicle first turn, and is fairly resilient, (FNP) I love the idea behind this list, be sure to post a report on how it does in battle! :evil:


That doesn't work anymore with the new FAQ. A model that's embarked in a transport is not on the field and thus aura abilities can't be used.
Also Markerlight Drones > Pathfinder usually. It's debatable with basic Markerlight Drones but as soon as you add a Drone Controller Commander or use them in a Drone-Net formation (the FSE one) they are better without room for debate.

Stim Injector on regular Crisis Suits is not recommended either. For the cost of the Stim Injector you could almost get a whole new Crisis Suit with 2 wounds instead of a 1/3rd chance to save a wound against S7 and less. Stim Injector is only worth it on big suits and the Commander.



Of course the last word is up to the OP how he likes to run things. Non-optimal choices can be fun too. The best thing we can do however is pointing him into the right direction and let the fine details (ike FnP on Crisis and Flamer/FB mix in units) to him.

neonmole
Shas'La
Posts: 26

Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#9 » Jan 12 2017 12:09

Thanks for all the comments guys - here is a revised version of the list. Let me know your thoughts!

I am slightly over 1850 but in this brainstorming phase I am working on broad strokes, can trim & refine once I am happy with it overall!

CAD

Shadowsun

3 Crisis Suits
(Plasma, Fusion, EWO)
- Shadowsun joins to confer stealth/shrouding/infiltrate

10 Breacher Team
+ Devilfish (SMS, Disruption Pods)

10 Breachers Team
+ Devilfish (SMS, Disruption Pods)

10 Strike Team
+ Devilfish (SMS, Disruption Pods)

10 Strike Team
+ Devilfish (SMS, Disruption Pods)

4 Marker Drones

4 Marker Drones

Optimised Stealth Cadre

3 Stealthsuits
(Fusion)

3 Stealthsuits
(Fusion)

Ghostkeel (TL Fusion, Ion Raker, EWO, Vector Tacker)
Ghostkeel (TL Fusion, Ion Raker, EWO, Target Lock)
Ghostkeel (TL Fusion, Ion Raker, EWO, Target Lock, Vector Tracker)
Scissors is balanced, nerf Paper. - Rock

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Elphiel
Shas'La
Posts: 87
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Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#10 » Jan 12 2017 12:41

I want to focus on the devilfish. I also play a lot with heavy infantry lists so i want to give you my opinions.

First you should think about the role of your devilfish where you have three options. First as sole dedicated transport, second as dedicated fire support for its transported troops, third as kind of light tank.

If you want a transport only, you should equip them pretty much stock with sensor spines as only option to consider. For cover you will constantly jink and so your ability to fire will go down. 4+ cover save from jink is more then enough for such a well armoured transport. The cheap sensor spines will guarantee that you can go where you want in a straight line withour to worry for terrain. The two gun drones can fulfil a lot of purposes to safe your breachers. Shielding them against close combat, giving them cover save and much more.

If you want your transport as fire support, you can add the SMS and Disruption pod. So you try to move through cover and still being able to shoot. Also i would add the cheap point-defence system. All your devilfish weapons are S5 and so can give overwatch. And with the SMS being twin linked with ignore cover, 8 shots with 4 of them twin linked/ignore cover can provide some effective overwatch fire support.

The third option is born out of the fact, that with lots of troops in perhaps already well equipped transports (especially in the counterstrike cadre) these transport become quite expensive in point cost without leaving room for some more heavy weapons. So consider to boost up the devilfish into an mini tank. Give them two seeker missiles together with the SMS, disruption pods, sensor spines and point defence system. 48-64 points for 6-8 shots if S8 can give you a bit more punch against harder targets. This way you can use your transport (after they unload their troops) to go and hunt for enemy tank sides and rear or do other anoying stuff. Devilfish with DP can suck a lot fire that would otherwise go into more vital parts of your army. and even while jinking, with jsut two armkerlight hits on an enemy tank and the seeker missiles in the side or rear and they still get to their target on 2+ with ignore cover rule build in.

Thats the three ways i use my devilfish with the first one being the primary.

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Overheal
Shas'Saal
Posts: 150

Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#11 » Jan 12 2017 01:09

And please please stop mixing Flamer and Fusion Blaster on suits (or at least recommending them).


No. I like a man who could handle either a mob or a tank when he drops in.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2262

Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#12 » Jan 12 2017 03:43

Overheal wrote:
And please please stop mixing Flamer and Fusion Blaster on suits (or at least recommending them).


No. I like a man who could handle either a mob or a tank when he drops in.

Well I like a man who gets his tasked job done instead of half assing it because he worries about some other mans job as well. :P

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Ifrit
Shas'La
Posts: 145

Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#13 » Jan 12 2017 06:52

Well for my two cents...
I'd keep the Flamers on just because of Wall of Death...
Because yes they are technically kamikaze suits and all but that doesn't mean they won't be able to help out during Overwatch. (From what I've seen most people don't really bother with a single suit unless they don't have anything better to shoot at)

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2262

Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#14 » Jan 13 2017 07:48

Ifrit wrote:Well for my two cents...
I'd keep the Flamers on just because of Wall of Death...
Because yes they are technically kamikaze suits and all but that doesn't mean they won't be able to help out during Overwatch. (From what I've seen most people don't really bother with a single suit unless they don't have anything better to shoot at)

Yeah the thing though is that with only one Fusion Blaster you have a 50/50 chance to hit without Markerlights and you usually really don't want to waste a markerlight source for a single FB shot. You also still have to pen with if you hit and some vehicle still have saving rolls like cover or invul. Two Fusion Blaster are just so much more reliable even without a markerlight source.

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Ifrit
Shas'La
Posts: 145

Re: Close Assault Cadre - Some ideas, advice?

Post#15 » Jan 13 2017 08:59

I agree with you there. Sorry I was under the assumption he had extra points and then threw the flamers on. That's what I do when I have extra points. But for sure double FB.

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