[850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

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JustGreg
Shas'Saal
Posts: 90

[850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#1 » Jan 24 2017 10:19

Love the new big stompy suits, so want to make an elite list, think this is a good starting point, thoughts?

FSE in CAD gives us fast, deep striking ObSec monats, pair of MCs for both drawing and laying down fire, and Mark'O blob for support.

Game plan is keep to cover, out manoeuvre big threats, and play the objective.

FSE CAD
849pts.

HQ - Commander - 166
Shield gen, Iridium, Drone controller, 2 marker drones, neuroweb system jammer

Troops - Crisis battlesuit - 53
2 plasma rifles, BKR

Troops - Crisis battlesuit - 53
2 plasma rifles, BKR

Troops - Crisis battlesuit - 53
2 plasma rifles, BKR

Troops - Crisis battlesuit - 53
2 fusion blasters, BKR

Elites - Riptide battlesuit - 226
Ion Accelerator, SMS, Stims, EWO, BKR

Elites - Ghostkeel battlesuit - 161
CIR, TL Fusion blaster, BKR, Velocity tracker

Fast Attack - Drone Squadron - 84
2 additional drones, 6 markerlights

> Do I need the 50 points on making the commander tough(slay the warlord)? His upgrades alone could be another monat.

> Ghostkeel VS. more monats and maybe a missileside?

>Velocity tracker for fliers? not likely to see many in 850pts?

>weapon choices? Plasma feels like the best TAC choice, still able to break rhinos/chimeras, with the single fusion monat there to drop on key tougher or back-field targets.

Thanks guys!

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#2 » Jan 25 2017 01:42

If you want a really competetive list with big suits take a look at the Riptide Wing formation and the Optimised Stealth Cadre formation. Those are two of our best formations available and often seen in serious tournaments (Riptide Wing more often than the OSC).

I could give you the basic rundown on the generic Tau tournament list but just taking lists from the internet is boring and it's always more helpful to put a list together with your own thoughts so i just give you some hints. :P

JustGreg
Shas'Saal
Posts: 90

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#3 » Jan 25 2017 01:49

Thanks for the feedback, I agree making your own flavour trumps net-listing every time.

I'm familiar with both formations, and own an OSC. However, I am not sure if that would be usable in this size game? coming in at 395 points as I would load it out. Do you think the OSC is a good choice here? I've seen the stealthsuits (which I do love) described as tax to the OSC on numerous occasions, and I'm not sure if sacrificing the ObSec here is worth the special rules gained, again given the game size.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#4 » Jan 25 2017 02:25

Besides that i misread and thought it's about 1850p .... yeah I think a OSC is basically always worth it. +1BS and cover ignoring is like 3 markerlights on your Ghostkeel and Stealth Suits all the time which is pretty huge. On top of that they are fairly durable and their damage output is not that bad either. Of course you'd need other stuff as well but i'm sure you could easily fit in some Plasma and/or Missile Pod Crisis, Kroot and Mark'O + Drones as well.

....okay I admit I clicked the list together on Battlescribe real quick and OSC + a CAD with Mark'O, Drone Squad, 1x10 Sniper Kroot, 1x2 Plasma Crisis and 1x2 Missile Pod Crisis fits. Even though that's a bit excessive on the Markerlights since the OSC barely needs any. Maybe a nice opportunity to use a Coldstar in some variant. I personally like to play around with the Coldstar Mark'O variant and on that point level and a OSC on the field you wouldn't have to worry as much about him getting killed. :P

JustGreg
Shas'Saal
Posts: 90

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#5 » Jan 25 2017 02:52

Sadly, my collection and (already severely punished) wallet says that getting kroot are a no-go, and breaks theme of mech. but I imagine a monat or two still works in their place.

I'm not familiar with how a coldstar can work for markerlighting, as while he's flying, he can't join a squad or use his drones, right?

appreciate the input though, good considerations.

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Panzer
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Posts: 3548

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#6 » Jan 25 2017 03:06

Basically a Coldstar would do the same as the generic Mark'O just slightly different.
Instead of tanking shots with his face and giving them to his drones via look out sir in case they are too dangerous he can dodge scary melee units by simply flying away. Also he can't join a Drone Squad thanks to the FAQ but he at least has his own two Drones with him.
That being said as pure Markerlight Source he is obviously worse than our good old Mark'O however at 850p with an OSC in your list you don't really need that many Markerlights and he offers some neat mobility. In the end it's a just gimmick build i'm playing around with, just thought it might work well in such a list. :P

No Kroot is unfortunate but not too terrible. You can easily replace them with 1-2 Monats of any flavour (Fusion Blaster aren't really needed if you go with an OSC though). Plasma Rifles and Missile Pods would fill the most glaring holes in such a list. Flamer would be a good option as well in case you'll face a mini green-tide or similar.

JustGreg
Shas'Saal
Posts: 90

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#7 » Jan 25 2017 03:48

For sure don't need the fusion monat with OSC in this point range. Not sure on the coldstar, I'm sure I read that his drones are removed from the field until he's grounded? At which point he sacrifices his mobility? Forgive/correct me if I'm mistaken.

How would you use flamers? As a back up for overwatch? Or double up on a super cheap monat? Feels situationally amazing or otherwise terrible to me.

I'm not sure on missile pods, I appreciate the range, but feel like when you can get in range for rapid plasma (as in, most of the time?) they are better. Perhaps one missile pod one for holding back field objectives has value though.

I'll have a revise and come up with another list tomorrow. Thanks.

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Panzer
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Posts: 3548

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#8 » Jan 25 2017 04:10

JustGreg wrote:For sure don't need the fusion monat with OSC in this point range. Not sure on the coldstar, I'm sure I read that his drones are removed from the field until he's grounded? At which point he sacrifices his mobility? Forgive/correct me if I'm mistaken.

That's right. You basically do what you usually do with your Mark'O just with only 2 Drones while being much more mobile. Also if your enemy really wants to kill your warlord (objectives or whatever) he can tank a lot of shooting while being in the air since I doubt most would include flyer or anti-air in their list at that point level.
As said, he IS without doubt weaker as Markerlight Source but it's a gimmick build and can do few fun little things.

JustGreg wrote:How would you use flamers? As a back up for overwatch? Or double up on a super cheap monat? Feels situationally amazing or otherwise terrible to me.

I'm not sure on missile pods, I appreciate the range, but feel like when you can get in range for rapid plasma (as in, most of the time?) they are better. Perhaps one missile pod one for holding back field objectives has value though.

I'll have a revise and come up with another list tomorrow. Thanks.

I usually drop Flamer Monats via Deep Strike but i feel that wouldn't be such a good idea on such a low point level. So either holding them back for Overwatch or advance them through cover. I'm sure any Imperial Guard army wouldn't really know want to focus first between an OSC and Flamer Monats. :D

Missile Pods are awesome. Given Crisis are not exactly our best source for S7 spam but I think the added mobility and ObSec of a FSE CAD wins over Broadsides on that point level. They can threaten literally anything from 36" away that isn't incredibly durable or AV14. Light-Medium vehicle have to fear them just as much GEQ and MEQ.
For sure Plasma are better once you are in rapid fire range, however that is a difference of 24" range so I'd see Plasma Crisis as dedicated anti-MEQ/TEQ and nothing else while MP Crisis are true allrounder.

On that note maybe EWO on a 3-4 Plasma Crisis unit is a good idea if you think you'll have problems against Drop Pod Marines.


I think that would be my basis to play around with and try to optimize in a mech only list with OSC on that point level. Not sure if it's the strongest but it looks like fun to play imo.

Spoiler!
+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2019) (854pts) +++

++ Combined Arms Detachment (Tau Empire: Codex (2015) v2007) ++

+ Uncategorised +
Farsight Enclaves

+ HQ +
Commander [2x MV4 Shield Drone]
XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [Drone Controller, Stimulant Injector]

+ Troops +
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [Bonding Knife Ritual]
Crisis Shas'ui [2x Missile Pod]
Crisis Shas'ui [2x Missile Pod]

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [Bonding Knife Ritual]
Crisis Shas'ui [Early Warning Override, 2x Plasma Rifle]
Crisis Shas'ui [Early Warning Override, 2x Plasma Rifle]

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
Crisis Shas'ui [2x Flamer]

+ Formation +
Optimized Stealth Cadre
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Counterfire Defence System]
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Counterfire Defence System]
Stealth Shas'vre [Fusion Blaster]

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Counterfire Defence System]
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Counterfire Defence System]
Stealth Shas'vre [Fusion Blaster]

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuits
Ghostkeel Shas'vre [Cyclic Ion Raker, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster]


EDIT: huh...are the spoiler tags not working again? :-?
Okay so without spoiler tags then...
+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2019) (854pts) +++

++ Combined Arms Detachment (Tau Empire: Codex (2015) v2007) ++

+ Uncategorised +
Farsight Enclaves

+ HQ +
Commander [2x MV4 Shield Drone]
XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [Drone Controller, Stimulant Injector]

+ Troops +
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [Bonding Knife Ritual]
Crisis Shas'ui [2x Missile Pod]
Crisis Shas'ui [2x Missile Pod]

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [Bonding Knife Ritual]
Crisis Shas'ui [Early Warning Override, 2x Plasma Rifle]
Crisis Shas'ui [Early Warning Override, 2x Plasma Rifle]

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
Crisis Shas'ui [2x Flamer]

+ Formation +
Optimized Stealth Cadre
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Counterfire Defence System]
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Counterfire Defence System]
Stealth Shas'vre [Fusion Blaster]

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Counterfire Defence System]
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Counterfire Defence System]
Stealth Shas'vre [Fusion Blaster]

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuits
Ghostkeel Shas'vre [Cyclic Ion Raker, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster]

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Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 278

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#9 » Jan 25 2017 05:25

Panzer wrote:+ HQ +
Commander [2x MV4 Shield Drone]
XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [Drone Controller, Stimulant Injector]

You have a drone controller but no drones except for shield drones...

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#10 » Jan 25 2017 05:43

Unicornsilovethem wrote:
Panzer wrote:+ HQ +
Commander [2x MV4 Shield Drone]
XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [Drone Controller, Stimulant Injector]

You have a drone controller but no drones except for shield drones...

Ah just a missclick. Those are obviously meant to be Markerlight Drones. :D

JustGreg
Shas'Saal
Posts: 90

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#11 » Jan 26 2017 12:12

Back again with some new thoughts, and a couple questions.

First off, when using an FSE CAD, and an OSC formation, which faction does the OSC belong to? Is it allied from tau empire? (just a logistics thing that I'm led to believe is legal, but cant quite see how it fits in the rules.)

I'm a growing fan of the coldstar idea in this list, gives me a strong skyfire option allowing me to save a potentially useless 20 points on a velocity tracker elsewhere. I see him being very useful while swooping; However, I'm not quite sure how you intend to use him for markerlighting, as it takes a turn to switch flying modes, and his drones are removed from the field while swooping. So, do you intend to land him into gliding each other turn (where he moves like a jump monstrous creature, which is 6inch/2d6 assault, isn't it?) and only use the MLs then? Sorry if I'm being dense but I don't follow how he works as a flying Mark'O but maintains his difficulty to kill by being flying in swooping mode.

Another question is, you don't have target lock on him, which seems problematic as he's probably going to want to focus different things to his marker drones. How highly do you value stims too? Can it save him from instant death on failed grounding tests?

Assuming I can work the above out, it seems very cool. so, give or take some tweaks to facilitate the above I'm looking at the following:

Spoiler!
FSE - 850pts

CAD
HQ - Commander - 176pts

Coldstar battlesuit, Drone controller, Neuroweb system jammer, 2 Marker drones

Troops - Crisis battlesuit - 58pts
2 Plasma rifles, EWO, BKR

Troops - Crisis battlesuit - 58pts
2 Plasma rifles, EWO, BKR

Troops - Crisis battlesuit - 58 pts
2 Plasma rifles, EWO, BKR

Troops - Crisis battlesuit - 53pts
2 Missile pods, BKR

Troops - Crisis battlesuit - 53pts
2 Missile pods, BKR

Troops - Crisis battlesuit - 33pts
2 Flamers, BKR

Optimised Stealth Cadre Formation
Ghostkeel - 141 pts

Cyclic ion raker, Fusion blaster, BKR

Stealth team - 110pts
Shas'vre, ML + TL, Fusion blaster

Stealth team - 110pts
Shas'vre, ML + TL, Fusion blaster

Considerations:
>having a full 6 ObSec monats seems really good, but:
>flamer monat is probably greedy, and definitely more situational, should I disperse it's points for upgrades on commander and/or ghostkeel?
> beacon on the stealth teams to bring in suits turn 2? (Probably want them all on the board turn one in this size game?)
upgrades?
>You included CDS on the stealth burst cannon users, quite situational, worth?
>EWOs on plasma monats for deep strike safety, should one EWO be on a missile pod one instead?

rulings?
>Everything above on coldstar usage
>Do the stealth teams need to take BKR? (I don't think they're FSE, so, no?)

Thanks in advance.
Last edited by JustGreg on Jan 26 2017 12:58, edited 1 time in total.

JustGreg
Shas'Saal
Posts: 90

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#12 » Jan 26 2017 12:42

[double post as editing in a second spoiler breaks both...]

I've also made a non-flying version of the list. Only thoughts are that monats, being single units, don't make good use of the markerlights, so I've consider pairing them up perhaps for more efficiency at the cost of being slightly more vulnerable, thoughts on that? Also lost the 'vre and target locks on the stealth teams to free up points. Not sure how I feel about that.
Spoiler!
CAD
HQ - Commander - 176pts

Drone controller, Iridium armour, Shield Gen, Flamer, 2 marker drones

Troops - Crisis battlesuit - 116pts
2 Plasma rifles, EWO, BKR
2 Plasma rifles, EWO, BKR

Troops - Crisis battlesuit - 58 pts
2 Plasma rifles, EWO, BKR

Troops - Crisis battlesuit - 106pts
2 Missile pods, BKR
2 Missile pods, BKR

Fast attack - Drone Squadron - 70
1 additional drone, 5 markerlights

Optimised Stealth Cadre Formation
Ghostkeel - 141 pts

Cyclic ion raker, Fusion blaster, BKR

Stealth team - 95pts
Fusion blaster

Stealth team - 95pts
Fusion blaster

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#13 » Jan 26 2017 02:41

FSE+formations:
You can decide for each formation seperately whether it should belong to the FSE or the TE. Since FSE gives your OSC nothing and only adds a BKR tax you should just play them as TE formation (except for fluff reasons maybe).

Coldstar Mark'O usage:
Mainly staying on the ground and do what a Mark'O does with the option to quickly dodge nasty enemy units and/or give up his Mark'O role for a turn (or more) to shoot something from a different angle/hiding behind los blocking terrain etc.

I value Stim on him VERY high. In fact I'd want both, Stim AND Shield, on him but the Drone Controller takes one of those slots and unless he gets shot at with S8+ AP3 while he is alone and not flying Stim is better. If he flies he can jink for a 4+ Cover Save and if he is on the ground he can Look Out Sir! nasty wounds to one of his two Drones.
You can't save him from failed grounded tests with Stim since it's S9 and he has only T4 (that's pretty much the main problem with the Coldstar variant).

A Target Lock would be very nice but as said there is no free spot for an additional Support System left. It shouldn't matter too much on that point level though.

The movement with such a unit would be kinda tricky. He is no Jetpack MC so he has no thrust move (so no 2d6 movement for him in the assault phase) but a Jumppack MC instead (so 12" movement in the movementphase if you want to).
However the Drones are obviously still Jetpack Infantry. That means you can move in the movementphase 6" with the Drones and up to 12" with your Commander as long as they stay in coherency. In your assaultphase the Drones would be able to use their Thrustmove to jump back behind cover etc. but your Commander can't.

The Coldstar Mark'O is primarily a Markerlight source and only secondarily a fighting Commander.
I can only repeat myself, the Coldstar Mark'O IS, without doubt, worse than the normal Mark'O. However at that point level and with an OSC included, which is largeley independent Markerlight-wise, he has an interesting place in the list i think.

Counterfire Defense System:
Ah well...to be completely honest Stealth Suits are best completely naked with MAYBE a Fusion Blaster added. They are just too expensive and the OSC is the only way how they can do anything worthwhile. The CDS is just me playing around and trying to make them look more scary for the enemy (8 S5 + 1 S8 AP1 Overwatch shots with BS2 or 12 S5 ones sounds scary enough on the paper for most enemies even though they rarely do much^^). You can easily spend the points somewhere else if you want to. 20p are 20p afterall. :D

To your list:
Monats are generally great....except for one thing. Markerlights become extremely inefficient if only 1 model can use them every time. Hence why I put 2 Plasma Crisis and 2 MP Crisis in a unit in my list.
The advantage would be that Monats survive longer since if the enemy shoots at them and kills them (he WILL kill them if he shoots at them) he can always only kill one Crisis Suit per Unit + you can spread your ObSec area more.
I honestly wouldn't rely on Deep Strike with more than 1-2 Monats in such low point level games and those I would try to drop in his backfield so beacons wouldn't help much with that. Save those points for something else. ;)

JustGreg
Shas'Saal
Posts: 90

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#14 » Jan 26 2017 03:10

Hey, thanks for the comprehensive response, really appreciate clearing these things up.

I think I'll probably revert to a ground based commander, possibly with some more markers again, maybe a minimum unit of drones, and paired suits to better utilise them. Will look at some list options and post later or tomorrow.

One last consideration is going back to CAD only and squeezing in the riptide over the stealth suits. I value the OSC a lot, but it'd be fun to have the 'tide in there too. Especially with a fully functional mark'O.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: [850pts] FSE - Competitive mech only?

Post#15 » Jan 26 2017 03:18

Without the OSC a Mark'O would definitely make more sense (even though a Riptide usually only needs 2 to ignore Cover).

Just play a few test games to get a feeling for your list and see if you really need that many Markerlights in the first place.

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