Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

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neonmole
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 26

Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

Post#1 » Feb 01 2017 02:20

Hi Everyone,

Using the critique provided to me I have come up with a (close) to finalised version of the list I plan to build.

I am looking to build an all comers list, with a reasonable (though not extreme) competitive edge, while sticking close to my theme. Essentially I want to build an extremely mobile, close range Tau army - emphasising mechanised infantry, and the stealthy elements of the codex. I envision something of a "special operations cadre", the painting & modelling will reflect this (see: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=25238)

So the list, with some commentary on the thought process...

CAD:

- XV22 Equipped Commander "Ghostblade" (Counts as Shadowsun /w command link drone) - 155pts
joins...
- 4 x XV8 Crisis Team /w TL Plasman, Fusion - 228pts
(I wanted to use the shadowsun rules, and feel that this warrants a reasonably sized crisis suit unit to take advantage of conferring stealth & shrouded + 3d6 thrust move. I wanted them to fill the low AP gap I saw in the army, hence the load out. Hopefully the 3d6 jump mitigates the need to be close..)

- 10 x Breacher Team /w Devilfish + SMS, Disruption Pod - 195pts
- 10 x Breacher Team /w Devilfish + SMS, Disruption Pod - 195pts
- 10 x Strike Team /w Devilfish + SMS, Disruption Pod - 195pts

(Given I am using a CAD, the mech infantry [and thier fish's] can take advantage of Obsec. Obviously the two Breachers want to close, whereas the Strike team can either close, or camp a home objective, depending on the situation. I have chosen the disruption pods, despite the high expense as it means that without "ignores cover", that there are no easy targets for the enemy, as everything else has stealth & shrouded)

OSC:

- 6 x XV 25 Stealth Team /w 2x Fusion, Shas'vre, TL + Markerlight - 205pts
- 6 x XV 25 Stealth Team /w 2x Fusion, Shas'vre, TL + Markerlight - 205pts

(needed for the OSC, since I need to take them and like the models I figured I would max out and take advantage of the BS buff. The infiltrate should also be useful, if only to control opponents infiltrators. They also seemed a reasonable place to bag a couple of decently reliable marker lights, since I didn't really want to use the other ML options)

3 x Ghostkeel - 465pts
- EWO, Vector Tracker, Ion, Fusion
- EWO, Target Lock, Ion, Fusion
- EWO, Target Lock, Ion, Fusion

(heavy hitters obviously, I wanted 3 to get the BS5 on the unit. Obviously these guys will crush any vehicles without high all around AV, in addition, the one with vector tracker is my flyer insurance. I also plan to usually target this unit with the command link drone, meaning they put out 18 BS5 S7 / 3 S8 AP1 shots, while re-rolling misses... Seems good!

=1843pts

So I would love your thoughts. I can imagine that many will point out how ML light the list is. The fact is I don't really like the units that are really good for delivering ML's, so I thought about how I might mitigate the need for them - much of the army is inherently BS4 or 5, with a ton of ignores cover. My hope is that the two BS4 ML's that I do have will be enough to boost the infantry or the crisis team up when its really needed... That said, its clearly a weakness. Another small thought- if I had some more points I think I would probably add EWO's to the crisis team for some drop pod insurance....

So I would love your thoughts! Hopefully I can win some games with this, while enjoying the theme!

Cheers
Scissors is balanced, nerf Paper. - Rock

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

Post#2 » Feb 01 2017 02:44

Definitely not a bad list although Stims on the Ghostkeels and less Stealth Suits would be an improvement.

Too bad you don't like any of our Markerlight Sources since Breacher really depend on a good shooting phase once they are in range of their good profile to even hope to survive their next turn.
Normally if people want to play Breacher without at least a decent Markerlight Source they'd play a Hunter Contingent (Devilfish + Gun Drones + Breacher = free +1BS for all) but that would change your list a lot and would also mean no Shadowsun so I guess that's no option. So be prepared for your Breacher to unerperform more often than not.

Markerlights for Tau are what's the Psychic Phase for armies like TSons and Grey Knights (even though an OSC with 3 Keels are a good step in the direction of a list without Markerlights). I used to play without Markerlight or with only 4 Drones (without Commander)...the first time I used a Mark'O felt like playing a whole different army (and then playing a Hunter Contingent for the first time again like a whole different army).

neonmole
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 26

Re: Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

Post#3 » Feb 01 2017 03:18

Hey - yeah I thought that doing the list as a Hunter Cadre to boost to BS4 would be a very good way to mitigate the lack of markers. Unfortunately it was just too many sacrifices, wanted to take shadowsun, didn't want the heavy support or FA options, the list goes on... Once I actually have the army I am sure I will try variations and have the same experience you did when you tried the options you mentioned!

I know what you mean about the breachers... They will probably be quite unreliable. I hope that more often than not though the Stealth Vre can at least offer a unit BS4. Not the best but its something.

I am somewhat surprised that I don't see the 3x GK in more lists, it seems insanely good. With the ignores cover + always hitting rear, it seems like you can reasonably reliably wreck 3 vehicles a turn, assuming they are AV10 rear. Is this not incredible against some of the meta lists, Gladius for example, or Eldar skimmers? The one with VT also seems like one of the better ways you can take on flyers.

Is there a reason this is not used a ton?
Scissors is balanced, nerf Paper. - Rock

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

Post#4 » Feb 01 2017 03:27

The reason that you don't see three Keels in an OSC in many lists is probably because a single Keel in an OSC gets the job done just as well. Also the OSC is one of our strongest formations so while it might be a bit too strong for many casual games (always depends on the local meta of course) it's still not strong enough for really competetive games where things like Riptide Wing, Drone-Net and Stormsurge are simply better invested points. ;)

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dbgoldberg323
Shas
Posts: 2
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Re: Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

Post#5 » Feb 01 2017 05:28

neonmole wrote:I am somewhat surprised that I don't see the 3x GK in more lists, it seems insanely good. With the ignores cover + always hitting rear, it seems like you can reasonably reliably wreck 3 vehicles a turn, assuming they are AV10 rear. Is this not incredible against some of the meta lists, Gladius for example, or Eldar skimmers? The one with VT also seems like one of the better ways you can take on flyers.

Is there a reason this is not used a ton?

Panzer wrote:The reason that you don't see three Keels in an OSC in many lists is probably because a single Keel in an OSC gets the job done just as well. Also the OSC is one of our strongest formations so while it might be a bit too strong for many casual games (always depends on the local meta of course) it's still not strong enough for really competetive games where things like Riptide Wing, Drone-Net and Stormsurge are simply better invested points. ;)

In my experience, Ghostkeels have underperformed when taken alone. Clearly in an OSC their usefulness increases dramatically. However, taking three of them despite the costs dramatically increases their survivability since you get to use Holophoton Countermeasures three times for that whole unit of Ghostkeels. When I take the OSC, it's with minimum Stealth Suits and maximum Ghostkeels (with the Cyclic Ion Raker and TL-Fusion, as well as the obvious choice of Target Lock so they can fire at separate targets). Then there's also the fact that as previously mentioned, at three-deep they get that +1 BS due to the Fire Team rule as well as of course getting the +1 BS from the OSC rules. I think three is a solid choice.
"Sometimes you have to roll the hard six."

davidelfedjones
Shas'Saal
Posts: 11

Re: Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

Post#6 » Feb 02 2017 06:17

Awesome list with a cool theme running through it. I would split the optimised stealth cadre up into 2 formations if your running that many suits in it.

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Denirosek
Por'La
Por'La
Posts: 60

Re: Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

Post#7 » Feb 04 2017 07:09

It seems solid and I'm very fond of OSC. I have however to ask, are you allowed to pick two Fusion Blasters in one Stealth team? As far as I know you can only have one.
Prosper, as Tau shall.

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nic
Kroot'La
Kroot'La
Posts: 807

Re: Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

Post#8 » Feb 04 2017 11:54

I really like the concept. How do you plan to initially deploy the Shadowsun model and Crisis team given that the Infiltrate rule appears to block all ways of deploying them together?

Shadowsun can deploy with a Stealth team and jump over to the Crisis suits in your first movement phase but that would leave you with one non-stealthy unit on the table. Or are you planning to deep-strike the XV8 team in?

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

Post#9 » Feb 05 2017 09:03

Denirosek wrote:It seems solid and I'm very fond of OSC. I have however to ask, are you allowed to pick two Fusion Blasters in one Stealth team? As far as I know you can only have one.

You can take 1 FB per 3 Stealth Suits in a unit. So 2 in a unit of 6. ;)

neonmole
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 26

Re: Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

Post#10 » Feb 09 2017 01:52

nic wrote:I really like the concept. How do you plan to initially deploy the Shadowsun model and Crisis team given that the Infiltrate rule appears to block all ways of deploying them together?

Shadowsun can deploy with a Stealth team and jump over to the Crisis suits in your first movement phase but that would leave you with one non-stealthy unit on the table. Or are you planning to deep-strike the XV8 team in?


Thanks for the comment. I was unsure if she confers infiltrate to the unit... there seems to be some disagreement on that. Is the general consensus that she cannot? If so I'm cool with that. Can she not just elect to not infiltrate and deploy with the XV8s?
Scissors is balanced, nerf Paper. - Rock

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

Post#11 » Feb 09 2017 02:17

neonmole wrote:
nic wrote:I really like the concept. How do you plan to initially deploy the Shadowsun model and Crisis team given that the Infiltrate rule appears to block all ways of deploying them together?

Shadowsun can deploy with a Stealth team and jump over to the Crisis suits in your first movement phase but that would leave you with one non-stealthy unit on the table. Or are you planning to deep-strike the XV8 team in?


Thanks for the comment. I was unsure if she confers infiltrate to the unit... there seems to be some disagreement on that. Is the general consensus that she cannot? If so I'm cool with that. Can she not just elect to not infiltrate and deploy with the XV8s?

No need for a general consensus. The errata straight out said that ICs with Infiltrate can't join units without Infiltrate during deployment and vice versa. That applies no matter whether they actually infiltrate or not.

neonmole
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 26

Re: Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

Post#12 » Feb 11 2017 06:18

Wow... So she can't join the crisis team during deployment even if she isn't infiltrating?

That doesn't seem right.. (I am not questioning the ruling, it just doesn't seem to make much sense).

How frustrating.
Scissors is balanced, nerf Paper. - Rock

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Stealth Assault Cadre - 1850pts

Post#13 » Feb 11 2017 06:23

It really doesn't make much sense. Especially because the BRB initially said that the Infiltrator USR confers to the rest of the unit just like Scout.....and then GW released such a ridiculous Errata. >_>

But if you think that's annoying for us....just think about the Genestealer Cult. All their characters have Infiltrate but only one of their unit has Infiltrate as well outside of their big formation.

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