new as new can be 1850 list, please help a newbie out

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Rayzthedead
Shas'Saal
Posts: 11

new as new can be 1850 list, please help a newbie out

Post#1 » Jun 15 2017 12:39

Morning every one
Please give my list a read over and i would like to know if im getting the right idea for a tau list... i understand some things may or may not be optimal but I would like to know if im getting the right idea on how i should build my list.To give some back ground first I was a heavy tournament player in 5th and have played WM until recently, I moved back to 40k to enjoy a game with better models and have fun. Any how I was drawn to tau for the suits and I wanted to build a force that had a nice selection of suits. I am starting to hear that 2000pts will be a more common point limit for events but I have been playing 1850 locally. I tried to get a nice spread of weapons to attempt a all commers list.

detachment:
Battalion

HQ
Crisis commander
4x fusion blasters

Crisis Commander
4x fusion blasters

Troops
5 fire warriors leader with marker light
5 fire warriors leader with marker light
5 fire warriors leader with marker light
5 fire warriors leader with marker light

Fast attack

6 pathfinders 6x marker lights
6 pathfinders 6x marker lights
5 path finders 5x marker lights



detachment: Vanguard

HQ

Long strike
Rail cannon, 2x smart missile system

Elites

3 crisis suits all equipped with 3 plasma rifles each

Ghost keel
Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x burst cannons, 2 stealth drones

Ghost keel
Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x burst cannons, 2 stealth drones


Heavy Support

Hammerhead
rail gun, 2x smart missile system

Hammerhead
Rail gun 2x smart missile system




My plan with this list is to have my fusion commanders as a cheep drop to lay into any high arm target along side the rail guns. I view the as expendable and my best BS platform. I have the plasma unit as a nice anti high arm infantry counter. Being able to DS and rapid fire into a unit feels really good. I have the ghostkeels as I really love the model and I try to focus just on infantry with them and flank if possible. My rail heads and long strike have been champs every game, high accuracy and the rail gun brings some wicked punch. I really enjoy my pathfinder units and they have been very reliable for landing the marker lights. I see my opponents focus on them a lot. The firewarrior units are kind of a throw away unit, they help screen DS and give me some one off marker lights. I most recently played in to a tank heavy marine force and I had a hard time cracking armor... the storm raven he had took a turn of fire from everything I had and survived... it also got to alpha off longstrike before I shot it.


Am i getting the right idea with Tau or am i building it completely wrong..? I see more drones in lists but I feel for their cost and stats they are not worth it. thank you for your patience with a new poster and player, thanks again.

Watcher on the wall
Shas'Saal
Posts: 75

Re: new as new can be 1850 list, please help a newbie out

Post#2 » Jun 16 2017 02:20

Drones are definitely, utterly, 100% worth it. They put out easily the most efficient shooting and their saviour protocols are really good. I'd say take 6 on the Crisis suits, and see if you can fit in a pulse-accelerator drone on the pathfinders - with it you'd have the start of a decent gunline to act as an anchor (and maybe a Kauyon bait?)

Oh and drones will be even more worth it if you take a drone controller. Putting one on a stealth team (their best platform IMO) will help a lot, especially if you also take a homing beacon - this can get your fusion commanders in short range.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1132

Re: new as new can be 1850 list, please help a newbie out

Post#3 » Jun 16 2017 08:47

This is a great start to a list, you have all the right stuff- Plasma Rifles, 4xFB Commanders, Longstrike. But I think you're focusing a little too heavy in the wrong areas- plus you need Drones. Lots of Drones. Pancakes keep our guns shooting, and who doesn't love pancakes?

First off, I think you have too much anti-vehicle firepower. Longstrike, two Hammerheads, and two 4xFB Commanders? Tanks are going to die, and die fast. But, in 8th Edition tanks are expensive, and most armies won't field heavy armor spam it looks like. I'd pick three of your AT units, but not all five. Also, you have a ton of Markerlights- too many, I think. In this edition you want to get one hit on 2-3 enemies each turn, and not much more. Also, I'm not convinced the Ghostkeel is going to be good in this edition. One is okay, but two is too many I think.

So, let's remove two Hammerheads and one Ghostkeel. This cuts about 600 points from your list.

Use these extra points to add 2x Gun Drones to each Commander. It's too few, but it's all you can take. Then add 4x Gun Drones to your Crisis team. Then add a Cadre Fireblade to buff up your Fire Warriors. And I'd bring the number of Fire Warriors from 4x5, to at least 4x9. Let's go with 36 Fire Warriors for now. Combine your Pathfinder squads into 2x8, and arm 3 Pathfinders in each squad with Ion Rifles (the Ion Rifle guys lose their Markerlights, but that's okay). Also, add an 8x Gun Drone squad as a skirmish line in front of your Fire Warriors. Finally, I'd add another 3x XV8 team with Plasma Rifles and 4x Gun Drones. That should probably bring you back to 2000 points!

It's a couple of changes, but I think it would be worth it! What do you think?

Rayzthedead
Shas'Saal
Posts: 11

Re: new as new can be 1850 list, please help a newbie out

Post#4 » Jun 16 2017 11:03

Thank you very much for the input every one! :)

1st on the anti tank topic I feel Rhino rush will be back, tanks are more expensive but very durable. I recently played against a marine/ guard force with 2x razor backs, 2 taurox (what ever that guard transport is) and a Storm raven gun ship. It was was so very resilient, Long strike got alpha'ed turn one....the stormraven+ missile launchers did a lot of damage. my list focused into the storm raven and didnt drop it...mind you this may have just been dice.

2nd on the drone topic im very confused, they are 8-10 points each for a single wound...also are savior protocals not on the crisis suits? or is it about taking the saves on them once the unit takes fire? I perfer the pathfinders for marker lights due to hiting on a 4+ if they stay still. I get the drones for commanders, WHAT DRONE SHOULD I EQUIP MY COMMANDERS WITH?

3. Marker lights.... are we just forgoing the 5 lights on a unit? the ignoring cover, +1 bs and rerolling 1s is a solid boost, thats why i was running 15 path finders. If we are just looking at the most effective use is to just get the reroll ones?

4. Commander VS crisis units: I think the commander wins out even with the plasma. I can get a quad plasma commander at 120 points, or i can get 3 crisis suits with 3 plasma each for 225....now commander comes with 6w, and bs2 vrs the 9w and bs 4 of the crisis team. I think the commander is a way better bang for the buck.

5. The ghost keel is interesting, i think they are a solid anti infantry model, If you keep flanking and maintaining at least 12" the -2 to hit is effective. So he brings a bit of ranged durability but if he gets some dedicated fire power he drops quickly. To be honest I bought 2 out the gate as I love the model...so they get a special pass to stay in my army

6. Hammerheads: I feel that if you take Longstrike, the other 2 hammer heads are such a solid buy, maybe in my list I will reduce it to 2 hammerheads and fill out the drones. But back to the hammer head, I was compairing it to other models and I think it is more effective than a riptide for 1/2 the cost -ish... the rail gun is great when hitting on a 3 when moving (+longstrike) aand 2 SMS on a t7 13w frame. Its a fantastic anchor of the faction. I will run 2 at least i think.


I jumped into tau to play suits but im starting to see that in 8th there is a shift away from the suits.... the big winners seem to be hammerheads, commanders, fire warrior blobs and the storm surge....granted i havent played since 5th so i may just have an old minset.

Watcher on the wall
Shas'Saal
Posts: 75

Re: new as new can be 1850 list, please help a newbie out

Post#5 » Jun 16 2017 11:29

1. Fair enough, depends on your local meta

2. There are two points here. Firstly, it is a wound saved, NOT one damage. This means a single drone can take a lascannon wound, say, that could cripple a riptide or tank, or wipe out a commander- making the extra 8-10 points worth it. Secondly, gun drones actually put out a stupid amount of firepower on their own: they pay 2 points per S5 shots, at a 4+ to hit if you have a drone controller nearby. They are one of the better Tau units so far this edition. I would recommend re-reading the Saviour protocols rule.

3. Aiming for 5 hits is an Ok idea, but its easier and more efficient to just go for rerolling 1 all round.

4. This has already been discussed extensively. Commanders are probably slightly better, especially as fusion blaster platforms, but I suspect many players (including myself) are quite attached to squads of Crisis suits.

5. Possibly, but you (or rather your opponent) can target the drones, which only have -1 to hit. Interesting choice, but I wouldn't go for more than one.

6. They are probably quite good models on their own, IF you don't have enough AT. This links to point 1.

As a side note it's more complicated with the riptide, as its overcharge mode does D6 shots. Probably still worse, but better than its seems at first glance - and it has a 2+ save.

Rayzthedead
Shas'Saal
Posts: 11

Re: new as new can be 1850 list, please help a newbie out

Post#6 » Jun 16 2017 02:42

so taking in what you said, sorry about the Ghostkeel, but im a sucker for them, I reworked things a bit


Supreme Command Detachment

Battalion Detachment

Commander (3) - 178pts
1 Commander: 4 Fusion blasters
1 MV7 Marker Drone: Markerlight
1 MV4 Shield Drone

Commander (3) - 178pts
1 Commander: 4 Fusion blasters
1 MV4 Shield Drone
1 MV7 Marker Drone: Markerlight

Commander (3) - 138pts
1 Commander: 4 Plasma rifles
1 MV4 Shield Drone
1 MV7 Marker Drone: Markerlight

Commander (3) - 138pts
1 Commander: 4 Plasma rifles
1 MV4 Shield Drone
1 MV7 Marker Drone: Markerlight

Longstrike (1) - 215pts
1 Longstrike: Railgun,Two smart missile systems

TX7 Hammerhead Gunship (1) - 195pts
1 TX7 Hammerhead Gunship: Railgun,Two smart missile systems

Pathfinder Team (6) - 48pts
6 Pathfinder: Markerlight and pulse carbine,Photon grenades

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit (3) - 179pts
2 MV5 Stealth Drone
1 XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: Cyclic Ion raker,Two flamers,Advanced targeting system,Target lock

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit (3) - 181pts
2 MV5 Stealth Drone
1 XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: Cyclic Ion raker,Two burst cannons,Target lock,Advanced targeting system

Strike Team (9) - 72pts
1 MV1 Gun Drone: Two pulse carabines
8 Fire Warrior: Pulse rifle,Photon grenades

Breacher Team (11) - 88pts
2 MV1 Gun Drone: Two pulse carabines
9 Fire Warrior: Pulse blaster,Photon grenades

TY7 Devilfish (1) - 151pts
1 TY7 Devilfish: Burst cannon,Two smart missile systems

Breacher Team (11) - 88pts
2 MV1 Gun Drone: Two pulse carabines
9 Fire Warrior: Pulse blaster,Photon grenades

TY7 Devilfish (1) - 151pts
1 TY7 Devilfish: Burst cannon,Two smart missile systems

Watcher on the wall
Shas'Saal
Posts: 75

Re: new as new can be 1850 list, please help a newbie out

Post#7 » Jun 17 2017 06:40

Seems good, except that you've got 5 HQs when you're only allowed 3 in a Battalion. You should go 3 in a Supreme Command detachement and 2 in your normal Battalion.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1132

Re: new as new can be 1850 list, please help a newbie out

Post#8 » Jun 17 2017 07:53

I like the new list. If you like Ghostkeels, that' cool- the most important thing is to use the models you like!

The one change I'd make would be to drop the SMS from the Devilfish and replace with Gun Drones. You're a highly-mobile force, and Devilfish are close-support anyway, so paying +24pts per tank for just 14" of range doesn't seem worth it to me. Also, you should take Breachers over Gun Drones- their weapons are far more powerful for the same points cost.

Rayzthedead
Shas'Saal
Posts: 11

Re: new as new can be 1850 list, please help a newbie out

Post#9 » Jun 19 2017 04:16

thanks for all the input, i reworked the list a bit more with the devil fish points. I am sad i don't have any crisis suits, but I think the commanders are just a better buy.

Detachment

Commander (3) - 178pts
1 Commander: 4 Fusion blasters
1 MV4 Shield Drone
1 MV7 Marker Drone: Markerlight

Commander (3) - 178pts
1 Commander: 4 Fusion blasters
1 MV4 Shield Drone
1 MV7 Marker Drone: Markerlight

Commander (3) - 138pts
1 Commander: 4 Plasma rifles
1 MV4 Shield Drone
1 MV7 Marker Drone: Markerlight

Commander (3) - 138pts
1 Commander: 4 Plasma rifles
1 MV4 Shield Drone
1 MV7 Marker Drone: Markerlight

Longstrike (1) - 215pts
1 Longstrike: Railgun,Two smart missile systems

Strike Team (12) - 99pts
2 MV1 Gun Drone: Two pulse carabines
1 Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle,Photon grenades,Markerlight
9 Fire Warrior: Pulse rifle,Photon grenades

Breacher Team (10) - 80pts
2 MV1 Gun Drone: Two pulse carabines
1 Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse blaster,Photon grenades
7 Fire Warrior: Pulse blaster,Photon grenades

TY7 Devilfish (1) - 127pts
1 TY7 Devilfish: Burst cannon,Two gundrones with two pulse carbines

Breacher Team (10) - 80pts
2 MV1 Gun Drone: Two pulse carabines
1 Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse blaster,Photon grenades
7 Fire Warrior: Pulse blaster,Photon grenades

TY7 Devilfish (1) - 127pts
1 TY7 Devilfish: Burst cannon,Two gundrones with two pulse carbines

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit (3) - 181pts
2 MV5 Stealth Drone
1 XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: Cyclic Ion raker,Two burst cannons,Advanced targeting system,Target lock

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit (3) - 179pts
2 MV5 Stealth Drone
1 XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: Cyclic Ion raker,Two burst cannons,Velocity tracker,Advanced targeting system

Pathfinder Team (9) - 84pts
1 Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight and pulse carbine,Pulse pistol,Photon grenades
5 Pathfinder: Markerlight and pulse carbine,Photon grenades
3 Pathfinder: Ion rifle,Photon grenades

TX7 Hammerhead Gunship (1) - 195pts
1 TX7 Hammerhead Gunship: Railgun,Two smart missile systems


I really think the breachers will be solid... but are they? any expeirence with them?

Rayzthedead
Shas'Saal
Posts: 11

Re: new as new can be 1850 list, please help a newbie out

Post#10 » Jun 19 2017 05:55

Actually a little reworking and I am able to get that 3rd hammer head.... This would be a tournament list

supreme command detachment and a battalion

Commander (3) - 178pts
1 Commander: 4 Fusion blasters
1 MV4 Shield Drone
1 MV7 Marker Drone: Markerlight

Commander (3) - 178pts
1 Commander: 4 Fusion blasters
1 MV4 Shield Drone
1 MV7 Marker Drone: Markerlight

Commander (3) - 138pts
1 Commander: 4 Plasma rifles
1 MV4 Shield Drone
1 MV7 Marker Drone: Markerlight

Longstrike (1) - 215pts
1 Longstrike: Railgun,Two smart missile systems

Strike Team (13) - 107pts
2 MV1 Gun Drone: Two pulse carabines
1 Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle,Photon grenades,Markerlight
10 Fire Warrior: Pulse rifle,Photon grenades

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit (3) - 181pts
2 MV5 Stealth Drone
1 XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: Cyclic Ion raker,Two burst cannons,Target lock,Advanced targeting system

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit (3) - 181pts
2 MV5 Stealth Drone
1 XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: Cyclic Ion raker,Two burst cannons,Target lock,Advanced targeting system

TX7 Hammerhead Gunship (1) - 195pts
1 TX7 Hammerhead Gunship: Railgun,Two smart missile systems

TX7 Hammerhead Gunship (1) - 195pts
1 TX7 Hammerhead Gunship: Railgun,Two smart missile systems

Pathfinder Team (6) - 48pts
1 Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight and pulse carbine,Pulse pistol,Photon grenades
5 Pathfinder: Markerlight and pulse carbine,Photon grenades

Breacher Team (8) - 64pts
2 MV1 Gun Drone: Two pulse carabines
1 Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse blaster,Photon grenades
5 Fire Warrior: Pulse blaster,Photon grenades

Breacher Team (8) - 64pts
2 MV1 Gun Drone: Two pulse carabines
1 Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse blaster,Photon grenades
5 Fire Warrior: Pulse blaster,Photon grenades

TY7 Devilfish (1) - 127pts
1 TY7 Devilfish: Burst cannon,Two gundrones with two pulse carbines

TY7 Devilfish (1) - 127pts
1 TY7 Devilfish: Burst cannon,Two gundrones with two pulse carbines


as above I had a 2nd plasma commander, so with dropping him and some unit down grades i fit that 3rd hammer head in. With this I feel i can lay into a large tank of the opponent and save my fusion commanders to pop anything that threatens my hammer heads. with 2 breacher teams in devil fish i feel like i am very mobile engough to grab objectives. I would consider making the breachers regular fire warriors so after they are dropped off they can still have range to help out. Thanks again for all the help!

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