[ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

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Impulse
Shas'Saal
Posts: 65

[ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#1 » Jul 14 2017 08:59

My LGS is running a 8th Edition 40k league, which is my first foray into the game. It uses Battle Forged lists of 500pts, and I'd love some advice and explanations.

Here's what I took:
HQ - Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit: 157pts
High-output burst cannon; Missile pod; Drone Controller; Multi-tracker; 2x MV1 Gun Drone

Troops - Strike Team: 108pts
Shas'ui; 9xFire Warriors w/Rifles; DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ Missile pod; MV36 Guardian Drone

Elites - XV25 Stealth Battlesuits: 120pts
MV7 Marker Drone; Stealth Shas'ui w/ Fusion Blaster and Stimulant injector; 2x Stealth Shas'ui w/Burst cannon and Multi-tracker

Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team: 115pts
MB3 Recon Drone; 2x MV1 Gun Drone; 7x Pathfinder w/Markerlights; Shas'ui w/pistol and markerlight; Pathfinder w/ Ion Rifle; Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle

Went 2nd vs Orks, killed half of them in my first Shooting phase.

I'd like to rework this list for next week's session. My constraints are in what I actually own (all of which are magnetized):
1 box of Pathfinders
2 boxes of Fire Warriors (one of which I'm converting into a Cadre Fire Blade for Shadow War Armageddon)
1 box of Stealth Suits
1 Commander

I have no idea what I'm doing. I just tried to cover all my bases. Gun drones were great, other drones seemed kinda poopy. My ion rile pathfinder blew up the first time she used it. Not totally sold on Drone Controller either, and my tactics are almost non-existent.

EDIT: Here's the Week 2 List:

HQ - Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit: 150pts
High-output burst cannon; Missile pod; ATS; Shield

Troops - Strike Team: 144
Shas'ui; 8xFire Warriors w/Rifles (2 Units)

Elites - XV25 Stealth Battlesuits: 101pts
Stealth Shas'vre w/ Fusion Blaster; 2x Stealth Shas'ui w/Burst cannon

Fast Attack - Pathfinder Team, Tactical Drones 104pts
3x Pathfinder w/Markerlights; Shas'ui w/pistol and markerlight; 2x Pathfinder w/ Ion Rifle

4x Gun Drone; 2x Shield Drone

Went second vs Skitarii, lost all my drones right off the bat, and the Coldstar died on turn 2 or 3. Victory anyway!

Week 3:

HQ: Commander: 172
-4x Fusion Blasters
-2x Shield Drones

Troops: Strike Team: 72
-8x Fire Warriors w/ Pulse Rifles
-1x Fire Warrior Shas'ui w/ Pulse Rifle, Pulse Pistol

Troops: Strike Team: 72
-8x Fire Warriors w/ Pulse Rifles
-1x Fire Warrior Shas'ui w/ Pulse Rifle, Pulse Pistol

Elites: Stealthsuits: 92
-2x Stealthsuits w/ Burst Cannons
-1x Stealthsuit Shas'vre w/ Burst Cannon, Velocity Tracker

Fast Attack: Pathfinders: 56
-3x Pathfinders w/ Pulse Carbine, Markerlight
-1x Pathfinder Shas'ui w/ Pulse Carbine, Markerlight, Pulse Pistol
-2x Pathfinders w/ Ion Rifles

Fast Attack: Tactical Drones: 32
-4x Gun Drones w/ 2x Pulse Carbines

Went second vs Chaos Daemons. Had a tough time vs Invulnerable saves, but won through VP and a short game.
Last edited by Impulse on Jul 27 2017 03:33, edited 3 times in total.

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Glarblar
Shas'Saal
Posts: 217

Re: 500pt list help

Post#2 » Jul 14 2017 09:25

Here is a 500 list i just put together:

Outrider (+1 CP)
+HQ+ (150)
XV86 Coldstar
ATS + Shield Gen

+Troop+ (80)
10m Strike team w/ pulse rifles

+Elite+ (117)
Shas'vre w/ FB
2x Shas'ui w/ ATS

+Fast Attack+ (150)
5m Pathfinder
2 railrifles

5m Pathfinder
5x Markerlights

Tactical Drones
4x Gun Drones

User avatar
Impulse
Shas'Saal
Posts: 65

Re: 500pt list help

Post#3 » Jul 14 2017 09:28

Oh cool, i like the +1 CP from Outrider for sure. Is there a drawback to splitting Fire Warriors and Pathfinders into smaller groups like that?

Also, what is the benefit of ATS over Multi? Doesn't it only affect the Missiles?

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 297

Re: 500pt list help

Post#4 » Jul 14 2017 09:36

Impulse wrote:Oh cool, i like the +1 CP from Outrider for sure. Is there a drawback to splitting Fire Warriors and Pathfinders into smaller groups like that?

Also, what is the benefit of ATS over Multi? Doesn't it only affect the Missiles?


Drawback is multiple drops so probably not going first but that's if you use GW rulebook rules and not ITC where it's just a +1 for whoever finishes deploying first.

ATS benefits ALL weapons and also in CC now. Multi is extremely weak as it has a restriction and is the same benefit as a single markerlight which is arguably the only good thing about the markerlight table now.

My recommendation is to not use so many single drones in squads, even though they are the specialty ones, and drop them for a squad of gun drones who are one of the best units we have.

How did your ion rifle explode itself straight away. What exactly were you shooting at that you NEEDED to have str8 against but didn't have a markerlight on for some reason? Unless you 1,1 the rollin which case that's just awful luck.

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Impulse
Shas'Saal
Posts: 65

Re: 500pt list help

Post#5 » Jul 14 2017 09:55

I was firing Overwatch against some Meganobz that charged me. Rolled snake eyes, and homegirl bit it. I ended up killing the orks in hand to hand though, hilariously enough. I guess my concern is whether or not that gun is good enough to justify the points and drawback, and what to do with that pathfinder if she doesn't shoot her big pew pew. Just stand around?

Definitely seems like taking gun drones in a blob is the way to go.

ATS makes a lot of sense the way you put it. I was just blasting all markerlights at one unit but I suppose I should be spreading them around instead of hoping for 5 hits.
Last edited by Impulse on Jul 14 2017 09:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1260

Re: 500pt list help

Post#6 » Jul 14 2017 09:56

Yojimbob wrote:
Impulse wrote:Oh cool, i like the +1 CP from Outrider for sure. Is there a drawback to splitting Fire Warriors and Pathfinders into smaller groups like that?

Also, what is the benefit of ATS over Multi? Doesn't it only affect the Missiles?


Drawback is multiple drops so probably not going first but that's if you use GW rulebook rules and not ITC where it's just a +1 for whoever finishes deploying first.

ATS benefits ALL weapons and also in CC now. Multi is extremely weak as it has a restriction and is the same benefit as a single markerlight which is arguably the only good thing about the markerlight table now.

My recommendation is to not use so many single drones in squads, even though they are the specialty ones, and drop them for a squad of gun drones who are one of the best units we have.

How did your ion rifle explode itself straight away. What exactly were you shooting at that you NEEDED to have str8 against but didn't have a markerlight on for some reason? Unless you 1,1 the rollin which case that's just awful luck.


Impulse is a new player, they might not know the trick with Ion Rifles and Markerlights. Impulse, if you have re-rolling ones (the benefit of 1 Markerlight hit) then your Ion Rifles have a much lower chance of exploding, which is great!

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Impulse
Shas'Saal
Posts: 65

Re: 500pt list help

Post#7 » Jul 14 2017 10:00

Arka0415 wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
Impulse wrote:Oh cool, i like the +1 CP from Outrider for sure. Is there a drawback to splitting Fire Warriors and Pathfinders into smaller groups like that?

Also, what is the benefit of ATS over Multi? Doesn't it only affect the Missiles?


Drawback is multiple drops so probably not going first but that's if you use GW rulebook rules and not ITC where it's just a +1 for whoever finishes deploying first.

ATS benefits ALL weapons and also in CC now. Multi is extremely weak as it has a restriction and is the same benefit as a single markerlight which is arguably the only good thing about the markerlight table now.

My recommendation is to not use so many single drones in squads, even though they are the specialty ones, and drop them for a squad of gun drones who are one of the best units we have.

How did your ion rifle explode itself straight away. What exactly were you shooting at that you NEEDED to have str8 against but didn't have a markerlight on for some reason? Unless you 1,1 the rollin which case that's just awful luck.


Impulse is a new player, they might not know the trick with Ion Rifles and Markerlights. Impulse, if you have re-rolling ones (the benefit of 1 Markerlight hit) then your Ion Rifles have a much lower chance of exploding, which is great!


Oh! I totally didn't think of that! That's awesome!!!

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1260

Re: 500pt list help

Post#8 » Jul 14 2017 10:15

Impulse wrote:Oh! I totally didn't think of that! That's awesome!!!


Markerlights are tricky little things in 8th Edition! Consider them about utility, not accuracy. Re-roll ones on your Ion weapons. Shoot Seeker Missiles from high-BS platforms. Mark large numbers of targets with re-rolling ones. Just gunning for 5 hits won't pay off given how random this game is.

Also, as a new player, you'll want to pay special attention to balancing models and wargear when you make lists. For example, using your models, we can make the following list:

HQ - Coldstar Commander (134)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits (90)
Fast Attack - 10x Pathfinders (80)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (48)

That's 512 points, but it has no wargear. How many models do you want to remove, in order to take the wargear you want? If you take too many models (like this list) you lose utility. If you take too much wargear, you lose manpower. Let's take off a Burst Cannon (-10) and add a Fusion Blaster to the Stealthsuits (+21), and give the Coldstar Commander ATS and a Shield Generator (+16). That's +27 points total, bringing us to 539 points. Dropping 5 Pathfinders brings us to an even 499 points. The list would look like this:

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ ATS, Shield Generator (150)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits, Fusion Blaster (101)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders (40)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (48)

I'd also add Ion Rifles if I were you, you'd drop two Markerlights (-6) and add two Ion Rifles (+14). So, we need to drop one 8-point model... just to balance it, let's drop one Fire Warrior from each squad (-16), add the Ion Rifles (+8) and one more Pathfinder (+8). Now we're back to 499. Here's another list:

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ ATS, Shield Generator (150)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits, Fusion Blaster (101)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 2x Ion Rifles (56)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (48)

This one also comes in at 499 points.

Any of these lists look interesting?

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Impulse
Shas'Saal
Posts: 65

Re: 500pt list help

Post#9 » Jul 14 2017 10:20

Arka0415 wrote:
Impulse wrote:Oh! I totally didn't think of that! That's awesome!!!


Markerlights are tricky little things in 8th Edition! Consider them about utility, not accuracy. Re-roll ones on your Ion weapons. Shoot Seeker Missiles from high-BS platforms. Mark large numbers of targets with re-rolling ones. Just gunning for 5 hits won't pay off given how random this game is.

Also, as a new player, you'll want to pay special attention to balancing models and wargear when you make lists. For example, using your models, we can make the following list:

HQ - Coldstar Commander (134)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits (90)
Fast Attack - 10x Pathfinders (80)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (48)

That's 512 points, but it has no wargear. How many models do you want to remove, in order to take the wargear you want? If you take too many models (like this list) you lose utility. If you take too much wargear, you lose manpower. Let's take off a Burst Cannon (-10) and add a Fusion Blaster to the Stealthsuits (+21), and give the Coldstar Commander ATS and a Shield Generator (+16). That's +27 points total, bringing us to 539 points. Dropping 5 Pathfinders brings us to an even 499 points. The list would look like this:

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ ATS, Shield Generator (150)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits, Fusion Blaster (101)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders (40)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (48)

I'd also add Ion Rifles if I were you, you'd drop two Markerlights (-6) and add two Ion Rifles (+14). So, we need to drop one 8-point model... just to balance it, let's drop one Fire Warrior from each squad (-16), add the Ion Rifles (+8) and one more Pathfinder (+8). Now we're back to 499. Here's another list:

HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ ATS, Shield Generator (150)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits, Fusion Blaster (101)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 2x Ion Rifles (56)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (48)

This one also comes in at 499 points.

Any of these lists look interesting?



....you guys are so smart. >~< you really baked my noodle with this last list. I don't even know how you got so many fire warriors in this quad but I love it. I guess it's at the expense of ATS on the stealth suits?

I should mention that I'm converting a Fire Warrior into a Cadre Fireblade (the actual model is too dumpy for my tastes, and seems hard to swap heads). So that's a consideration and I'll edit my OP accordingly.

Also, are the missile thingies that look like they're from Yatterman just not worth it in Fire Warrior squads?

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Glarblar
Shas'Saal
Posts: 217

Re: 500pt list help

Post#10 » Jul 14 2017 10:30

There is an issue however, you need another markerlight source for those Ion Rifles. You cannot use the ML hits from the same unit as they are supposed to resolve at the same time.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 297

Re: 500pt list help

Post#11 » Jul 14 2017 10:30

Impulse wrote:
Also, are the missile thingies that look like they're from Yatterman just not worth it in Fire Warrior squads?


Depends on the play style. You lose them once you move out of range now so you HAVE to be static with that squad. Generally we have to be mobile to have a fighting chance to score objectives so that REALLY limits our possibilities. I've been keeping them off to save points as well as keep mobility in my troop squads.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 297

Re: 500pt list help

Post#12 » Jul 14 2017 10:31

Glarblar wrote:There is an issue however, you need another markerlight source for those Ion Rifles. You cannot use the ML hits from the same unit as they are supposed to resolve at the same time.


That was the way they used to work. This is not the case any longer unless someone can point something out in the rulebook that specifies otherwise. I have yet to find it.

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Impulse
Shas'Saal
Posts: 65

Re: 500pt list help

Post#13 » Jul 14 2017 10:35

Yojimbob wrote:
Glarblar wrote:There is an issue however, you need another markerlight source for those Ion Rifles. You cannot use the ML hits from the same unit as they are supposed to resolve at the same time.


That was the way they used to work. This is not the case any longer unless someone can point something out in the rulebook that specifies otherwise. I have yet to find it.


In the Battle Primer you can DL or get from your LGS it says you can resolve one model at a time, so I could totally shoot a markerlight first! Unless the hardcover I'm saving up for says otherwise; I haven't read it.

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Glarblar
Shas'Saal
Posts: 217

Re: 500pt list help

Post#14 » Jul 14 2017 10:43

Yojimbob wrote:
Glarblar wrote:There is an issue however, you need another markerlight source for those Ion Rifles. You cannot use the ML hits from the same unit as they are supposed to resolve at the same time.


That was the way they used to work. This is not the case any longer unless someone can point something out in the rulebook that specifies otherwise. I have yet to find it.


I guess so... you would just need to make sure to resolve the ML before the Ion Rifles

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Impulse
Shas'Saal
Posts: 65

Re: 500pt list help

Post#15 » Jul 14 2017 10:48

What makes Ion Rifles better than Rail Rifles? What makes Strike Teams better than Breacher teams? If I'm not taking a missile pod because it limits mobility then how should those squads be moving?

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Glarblar
Shas'Saal
Posts: 217

Re: 500pt list help

Post#16 » Jul 14 2017 10:55

Impulse wrote:What makes Ion Rifles better than Rail Rifles? What makes Strike Teams better than Breacher teams? If I'm not taking a missile pod because it limits mobility then how should those squads be moving?


Rail rifles and ion rifles are about equal it is a conversation of preference and where you have other same strength items in your list.

You strike teams are going to want to be more stationary keeping enemies at the 15" range for Rapid fire. Then your breachers want to be within 5" of the enemy so the best way to move them around is in a devilfish

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Impulse
Shas'Saal
Posts: 65

Re: 500pt list help

Post#17 » Jul 14 2017 11:13

Glarblar wrote:
Impulse wrote:What makes Ion Rifles better than Rail Rifles? What makes Strike Teams better than Breacher teams? If I'm not taking a missile pod because it limits mobility then how should those squads be moving?


Rail rifles and ion rifles are about equal it is a conversation of preference and where you have other same strength items in your list.

You strike teams are going to want to be more stationary keeping enemies at the 15" range for Rapid fire. Then your breachers want to be within 5" of the enemy so the best way to move them around is in a devilfish


I don't have a Devilfish, and I'm really only in to the Battlesuits so I don't want to buy one if I don't have to. Will I need one when I go for 1000-2000 pt events? Are breacher teams just unfieldable without one?

So the key with strike teams is to always go for 15in rapid fire. What do I do if i get charged?

Like, for real I have played one game of 40k ever and all I did was get really lucky with shooting 1st round.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 297

Re: 500pt list help

Post#18 » Jul 14 2017 11:57

Impulse wrote:I don't have a Devilfish, and I'm really only in to the Battlesuits so I don't want to buy one if I don't have to. Will I need one when I go for 1000-2000 pt events? Are breacher teams just unfieldable without one?

So the key with strike teams is to always go for 15in rapid fire. What do I do if i get charged?

Like, for real I have played one game of 40k ever and all I did was get really lucky with shooting 1st round.


Breachers are really really good at roasting MEQ/TEQ units and are really cheap. They can go in a transport that ends up being a tough nut to crack and adds a forward moving element to your army. In my opinion breachers should never be taken without one.
Vespid and plasma suits (not recommended) fill this same type of role eliminating those types of threats with the added benefit that vespid can deep strike. Vespid are slightly more vulnerable whereas the breachers can get back in their transport the following turn but they are infantry so searching for cover is very good for them.

Strike teams with a fireblade put out an amazing amount of hurt at 15". If you get charged, leave combat and open fire with the next squad.

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