[ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

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Tael
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#91 » Jul 24 2017 03:55

This topic has been noted by our team, title edited and raised to Sticky for all newcomer ATT Members to read. Thank you for all your input and great discussion so far! :)

- Tael.

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Impulse
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#92 » Jul 24 2017 07:32

Thanks that really takes the edge off. I can get the Start Collecting box set and then just pick up big battlesuits as I feel like building them. I swear I read that Broadsides with missiles, and all the other battlesuits, were really good.

What's a good model for Longstrike? Or should I just convert one? Finecast stuff has a bad reputation.

Can anyone give me a rundown of Ethereals?

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Panzer
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#93 » Jul 24 2017 07:39

Impulse wrote:Thanks that really takes the edge off. I can get the Start Collecting box set and then just pick up big battlesuits as I feel like building them. I swear I read that Broadsides with missiles, and all the other battlesuits, were really good.

What's a good model for Longstrike? Or should I just convert one? Finecast stuff has a bad reputation.

Can anyone give me a rundown of Ethereals?

You read right because you probably read about the 7th edition version of them. I mean they usually didn't make their way into tournament lists because the Riptide Wing was simply dominating, but in casual games they were still strong as hell. ;)

I don't think you'd need anything else than a regular Hammerhead to represent Longstrike. You could convert it a bit to look more special but that's up to you. Imo it's enough to just give it a more special paintjob so it looks different than other Hammerheads in your army (more use of your Sept color and/or camo pattern for example).

What do you want to know about Ethereals? They are cheap, die quickly, can't do anything on their own but they provide a nice little buff to any unit in range. Emphasis on little.

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Arka0415
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#94 » Jul 24 2017 08:34

Impulse wrote:Thanks that really takes the edge off. I can get the Start Collecting box set and then just pick up big battlesuits as I feel like building them. I swear I read that Broadsides with missiles, and all the other battlesuits, were really good.


If you're lucky, Broadsides (especially with HYMP) can be absolute death machines. Issue is, their middling accuracy means that statistically Commanders are superior. The hypothetical damage ceiling on a HYMP Broadside is incredible though.

Impulse wrote:What's a good model for Longstrike? Or should I just convert one? Finecast stuff has a bad reputation.

Finecast is actually great now, I own dozens of finecast models bought in the last few years and none have defects. Back when Finecast came out it really was awful, however, now there's no problem with it.

Anyway, you don't actually need to model Longstrike. He's inside the tank, so unless you really want him popping out of the top, just paint the Hammerhead to make it look like a tank ace or some kind of command variant.

Impulse wrote:Can anyone give me a rundown of Ethereals?

As Panzer said, they're cheap and give minimal buffs. However, if you're looking for a cheap unit that can improve the durability of your units by a small margin, or remove Markerlight dependency from a small area, Ethereals aren't bad. Don't bother with the upgrades, stock is okay. Hopefully in the new Codex they'll feel like more of a viable unit.

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Impulse
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#95 » Jul 24 2017 09:32

I saw a kit at my LGS yesterday that was a Commander and an Ethereal for the same price as just a Commander, so I was wondering if it was even worth it to field. Same goes for the Start Collecting box being $10US more than a box of Crisis Suits but having a whole unit of Fire Warriors and an Ethereal. I need one for my Shadow War Kill Team anyway.

Speaking of, any good options for a Cadre Fireblade? All my Tau are women and that's going to look really weird on the GW model with his huge body. Also, how many basic dorks does it take to have a CF be worthwhile?

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shasocastris
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#96 » Jul 24 2017 10:50

If you are looking for female Tau models to make a fireblade, I'd check out Wargames Exclusive, which is a site that sells Tau model knockoffs. There are a lot of really interesting options.

There are also a lot of half-naked options, so be warned.

To answer some of the earlier questions about 'can my army deal with this type of unit,' I'll add that what's more important than being able to deal with every unit is being able to deal with the different mission types. You don't necessarily win by killing enemy units, but by achieving the objectives. And with the lists you've made, I feel like you have the mobility necessary to do that, especially when you play using Tactical Objectives.

Cheers!

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Impulse
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#97 » Jul 24 2017 10:54

I really don't like a lot of the Wargames Exclusive models tbh. Some of the more samurai looking or armoured ones are pretty cool though. I got some heads from Zealot Miniatures that I'm quite pleased with. Anyone have experience converting Daemonette heads around here, or something like that? The pictures in the thread I found don't work anymore.
Last edited by Impulse on Jul 24 2017 04:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Glarblar
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#98 » Jul 24 2017 11:03

Last edited by Glarblar on Jul 24 2017 11:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Impulse
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#99 » Jul 24 2017 11:05

Yep, those are the ones I was talking about.

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Arka0415
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#100 » Jul 24 2017 06:30

Impulse wrote:How many basic dorks does it take to have a CF be worthwhile?


A Fireblade is 42 points, so roughly equivalent to 5 Fire Warriors. He gives each Fire Warrior +1 shot (some people think +2, but the jury is out), so he needs to buff twice as many Fire Warriors as you could buy for his points. So, the answer is 10! As long as you have at least 10 Fire Warriors, minimum, the Fireblade becomes viable. But remember, with each Fire Warrior you lose the Fireblade's efficiency drops. So, for the Fireblade to be truly worthwhile, you need way more than 10. My guess would be 20 if you're in a gunline, or 11 if you're in a Devilfish.

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Impulse
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#101 » Jul 24 2017 07:04

So there's no official ruling on whether an additional shot means one extra attack in the shooting phase or one extra use of a weapon? That's unfortunate.

Cadre Fireblades buff based on gun type though right, so they can affect other units beyond Fire Warriors?

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Arka0415
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#102 » Jul 24 2017 07:42

Impulse wrote:So there's no official ruling on whether an additional shot means one extra attack in the shooting phase or one extra use of a weapon? That's unfortunate.

Cadre Fireblades buff based on gun type though right, so they can affect other units beyond Fire Warriors?


Cadres give an additional shot, not an additional attack. Is that a single extra bullet, or a single extra shooting action? Conservatively, it's (1*2)+1 with the Fireblade buff at rapid-fire range. Otherwise it's (1+1)*2, giving 4 shots at rapid-fire range. I'm inclined to think the total is 3 shots (as per the first example) but the argument is very valid for 4 as well.

Fireblades can buff Pulse Rifles and Pulse Carbines, whichever model holds them. Usually though, the conventional use for a Fireblade is with Fire Warriors, but if you want to think outside the box and use the Fireblade with a different kind of unit, then go for it!!

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Impulse
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#103 » Jul 24 2017 07:49

Right; under the weapon profiles it says that (guntype n) means n attacks. So I used the word attack.

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Arka0415
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#104 » Jul 24 2017 08:36

Impulse wrote:Right; under the weapon profiles it says that (guntype n) means n attacks. So I used the word attack.


Sorry, I was just referring to the source of the confusion- shot vs attack vs shooting.

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Impulse
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#105 » Jul 24 2017 09:34

It's super ambiguous for sure. I always check the books before posting, and that one gave me pause even after multiple reads. Maybe 'shoot' and 'attack' and 'weapon' could all be clarified somehow? I'm not a rules scientist.

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Panzer
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#106 » Jul 25 2017 12:07

That's the problem. The term "shot" gets used only a few times in the rules and sometimes for attacks and sometimes for the whole shooting sequence of a weapon. Although it's more often used in place of attack and this way the Fireblade works like it used to work in 7th so I'm rather sure that's the right interpretation.

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Arka0415
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#107 » Jul 25 2017 12:15

Panzer wrote:That's the problem. The term "shot" gets used only a few times in the rules and sometimes for attacks and sometimes for the whole shooting sequence of a weapon. Although it's more often used in place of attack and this way the Fireblade works like it used to work in 7th so I'm rather sure that's the right interpretation.


Which interpretation do you go with? Frankly I might just go with whichever you think is best; I've played 4th-6th but not 7th edition.

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Panzer
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Re: [ATT Recommended] 500pt list help

Post#108 » Jul 25 2017 12:21

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:That's the problem. The term "shot" gets used only a few times in the rules and sometimes for attacks and sometimes for the whole shooting sequence of a weapon. Although it's more often used in place of attack and this way the Fireblade works like it used to work in 7th so I'm rather sure that's the right interpretation.


Which interpretation do you go with? Frankly I might just go with whichever you think is best; I've played 4th-6th but not 7th edition.

Shot = Attack is what I meant.

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