1000 point vs nids

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SniperTau
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 159

1000 point vs nids

Post#1 » Jul 25 2017 11:48

Hi shas, I am playing a game soon against my friend's nids, and need help with a list. There are several things I would like to have: longstrike, a QFC, and a razorshark.
Anything else is up for you to choose.
My collection is:
1 hammerhead(longstrike)
2 devilfish
1 razorshark
1 piranha
10 strike team shas
15 pathfinders
Ghostkeel
6 stealth suits
1 riptide
2 commanders
1 fireblade/darkstrider(conversion)
3 crisis suits
5 marker drones
2 shield drones
6 gun drones(for vehicles)

Any ideas?

Sniper

Jburli
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 120

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#2 » Jul 26 2017 02:23

I may be missing something but, especially after the recent faq, isn't the sunshark much, much, much better than the razorshark, for about 20pts more?

Now that the sunshark's drones have two ion rifles each they vastly outperform the quad ion turret (they fire 8 shots in rapid fire range and are more accurate against units that can FLY.
Last edited by Jburli on Jul 26 2017 02:29, edited 2 times in total.

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Blindeye
Shas'Saal
Posts: 88

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#3 » Jul 26 2017 02:28

Any idea what kind of Tyranid units your friend normally brings?
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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 322

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#4 » Jul 26 2017 02:39

Jburli wrote:I may be missing something but, especially after the recent faq, isn't the sunshark much, much, much better than the razorshark, for about 20pts more?

Now that the sunshark's drones have two ion rifles each they vastly outperform the quad ion turret (they fire 8 shots in rapid fire range and are more accurate against units that can FLY.


Quad Ion gets +1 to hit against models with Fly, not the sunshark drones. Though I do agree that the FAQ officially makes the bomber the better choice between the two.

Jburli
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 120

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#5 » Jul 26 2017 02:45

Yojimbob wrote:
Jburli wrote:I may be missing something but, especially after the recent faq, isn't the sunshark much, much, much better than the razorshark, for about 20pts more?

Now that the sunshark's drones have two ion rifles each they vastly outperform the quad ion turret (they fire 8 shots in rapid fire range and are more accurate against units that can FLY.


Quad Ion gets +1 to hit against models with Fly, not the sunshark drones. Though I do agree that the FAQ officially makes the bomber the better choice between the two.


Nope, the quad ion gets a +1 hit roll to units that CAN'T fly. (Yes, I know, it's pretty weird for a unit that's supposed to be a fighter)

But it's a heavy weapon, and the model always has to move, so it has a -1 to hit naturally!

Therefore it hits ground units on a 4+
Hits fly units (like crisis suits for example) on a 5+
And hits units with the airborne rule (like sunsharks) on a 6+

It's pretty terrible

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 322

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#6 » Jul 26 2017 02:49

Jburli wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
Jburli wrote:I may be missing something but, especially after the recent faq, isn't the sunshark much, much, much better than the razorshark, for about 20pts more?

Now that the sunshark's drones have two ion rifles each they vastly outperform the quad ion turret (they fire 8 shots in rapid fire range and are more accurate against units that can FLY.


Quad Ion gets +1 to hit against models with Fly, not the sunshark drones. Though I do agree that the FAQ officially makes the bomber the better choice between the two.


Nope, the quad ion gets a +1 hit roll to units that CAN'T fly. (Yes, I know, it's pretty weird for a unit that's supposed to be a fighter)

But it's a heavy weapon, and the model always has to move, so it has a -1 to hit naturally!

Therefore it hits ground units on a 4+
Hits fly units (like crisis suits for example) on a 5+
And hits units with the airborne rule (like sunsharks) on a 6+

It's pretty terrible


I really should zoom in on text more often... but yes, it really is awful.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3072

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#7 » Jul 26 2017 02:50

The Razorshark was never a true fighter though. It was always something that pulled double duty against flyer and non-flyer. Remember that it had the option to use a blast profile before 8th. ;)
But yes, it's terrible. Nimble flyer like those should either have a rule that allows them to ignore movement penalties or just assault weapons in the first place.

Jburli
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 120

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#8 » Jul 26 2017 03:13

So if you give the razorshark a missile pod it gets 6 strength 7 shots.

If you don't upgrade the sunshark you get 6 strength 7 shots (plus 4 extra in rapid fire range!), a markerlight and the pretty awesome pulse bombs ability, that deals mortal wounds to infantry on a 4+ when you fly over them

With these loadouts the razorshark is 6pts cheaper. Who was responsible for the balance in this index?!

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SniperTau
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 159

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#9 » Jul 26 2017 06:14

My friend has:
A mawloc
2 carnifex
tons of gaunts
10 gargoyles
1 hive tyrant
1 flying hive tyrant
1 tyrannofex
20 genestealers
2 lictors
1 tyrranocyte
assorted spore mines
3 bases of rippers
4 warriors
1 prime
1 venomthrope
1 zoanthrope
1 neurothrope

He usually fields a mawloc no matter the list. Otherwise he has enough that it changes each time.

I am assuming he will have at least a few monsters, with a solid swarm. Unfortunately for him, I have index xenos 2 and he does not, so he will be making up a list on the day.

So, list ideas?

Sniper

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1507

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#10 » Jul 26 2017 07:36

SniperTau wrote:Hi shas, I am playing a game soon against my friend's nids, and need help with a list. There are several things I would like to have: longstrike, a QFC, and a razorshark.
Anything else is up for you to choose.


Looks like a great collection! Let's see what we can do. First, it looks like your friend can (and probably will) bring a monster-heavy list, but let's prepare for both possibilities: Tyranid monsters, and a 'gaunt swarm. The Fusion Blaster Commander and Longstrike will probably make the list. The Razorshark (no offense) is pretty terrible- I wouldn't bother unless you can proxy it for a Sunshark (which is a great unit). Let's see what we can do:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x SMS (215)

There's the HQ base. Now we need some units that can really put out the hurt against swarms.

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors (40)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors (40)
Elites - 3x XV8 Battlesuits w/ 9x Flamers; 4x Gun Drones (239)
Fast Attack - Piranha w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (71)

This brings us to 823 points, still 177 points to go. We'd like to add a few Markerlights, as well as some weaponry that can hurt the medium- and large-sized targets that Tyranids can bring to the table.

Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (105)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)

With the remaining 12 points, let's give Longstrike a pair of Seeker Missiles, and I'd call this a list!

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (225)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors (40)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors (40)
Elites - 3x XV8 Battlesuits w/ 9x Flamers; 4x Gun Drones (239)
Fast Attack - Piranha w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (71)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (105)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)

Total: 998 - Command Points: 7 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

What do you think?

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Blindeye
Shas'Saal
Posts: 88

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#11 » Jul 26 2017 07:53

I have another take. To best make a list it would also be nice to know which type of mission you plan on playing, eternal war or malesteom or perhaps something with more narrative.

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [55 PL, 998pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander [7 PL, 176pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

Longstrike [11 PL, 201pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Railgun, 2x Seeker missile

+ Troops +

Strike Team [5 PL, 83pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse rifle
. 9x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Elites +

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit [10 PL, 176pts]: 2x Flamer, Cyclic ion raker, Drone controller, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Target lock

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 40pts]
. 4x Pathfinder: 4x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight

Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 40pts]
. 4x Pathfinder: 4x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight

Tactical Drones [4 PL, 54pts]: 3x MV1 Gun Drone, 3x MV7 Marker Drone

TX4 Piranhas [4 PL, 81pts]
. TX4 Piranha w/ BC & 2x SM: Burst cannon, 2x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x Seeker missile

+ Flyer +

AX3 Razorshark Strike Fighter [8 PL, 147pts]: Burst cannon, Quad ion turret, 2x Seeker missile

++ Total: [55 PL, 998pts] ++

4 CP

The limited number of troop choices make it hard to get many CP but you have enough strong choices I think it will be okay.

I'm thinking deploy the pathfinders and strikers as a screen for longstrike. The Ghostkeel can take a flank and the Drones go with it for support and extra durability. This is the core of the force. Set the Ghostkeel up to be cheap and help deal with swarms.

QFC, Razershark and Pirahna give you allot of mobile force to be aggressive or snag the off objective. Lastly threw smart missiles where I could. With the pathfinders and marker Drones you should be able to get some good hits with them and widdle down a monster.
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SniperTau
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 159

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#12 » Jul 26 2017 08:37

Blindeye, I think we will be doing more of a narrative, perhaps a custom mission. I could definitely proxy the razorshark as a sunshark, Arka. Also, a battalion needs a minimum of 3 troops.

I like the XV8 unit with flamers, and the two basic pathfinder teams. Piranha seems to be best for just scooting around stuff. I could potentially proxy five pathfinders as fire warriors, just with carbines. so then I would have a list like this:

HQ - Commander - 4x Fusion, 2 shield drones
HQ - Longstrike - Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x seekers
HQ - Cadre Fireblade - Markerlight
Troops - 5x fire warriors
Troops - 5x fire warriors
Troops - 5x fire warriors
Elites - 3x XV8 Battlesuits w/ 9x flamers, 4 gun drones
Fast Attack - Piranha w/ Burst Cannon, 2x Gun Drones, 2x Seeker Missiles
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlight
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlight, 3x Rail Rifles

This would fit in a Battalion + Outrider.

Plus he wants a 1250 point game now, so...
Moar stuff!
so maybe a sunshark? don't have the index in front of me now. And if they can fit, some more Marker or Gun drones.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1507

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#13 » Jul 26 2017 10:32

SniperTau wrote:Blindeye, I think we will be doing more of a narrative, perhaps a custom mission. I could definitely proxy the razorshark as a sunshark, Arka. Also, a battalion needs a minimum of 3 troops.

I like the XV8 unit with flamers, and the two basic pathfinder teams. Piranha seems to be best for just scooting around stuff. I could potentially proxy five pathfinders as fire warriors, just with carbines. so then I would have a list like this:

Plus he wants a 1250 point game now, so...
Moar stuff!
so maybe a sunshark? don't have the index in front of me now. And if they can fit, some more Marker or Gun drones.


My mistake, I got mixed up. Let's dump the Battalion and see what else we can do. 1250 seems much more relaxing! I like your modification to the list (fewer Pathfinders) and a pure-Markerlight unit could be viable. Let's expand the list you made:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2 Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (225)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Elites - 3x XV8 Battlesuits w/ 9x Flamers; 4x Gun Drones (239)
Fast Attack - Piranha w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (71)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (97)

As it is now, we can condense the number of Fire Warriors (I wouldn't scrape to get a Battalion at just 1250 points). Also, the Piranha really shouldn't take Seekers since you need 3 Markerlights (not 2) to fire them properly. As it stands, this is 970 points. So, we can still add 280 points worth of stuff. I'd check out the Flyer, as (a) it may be hard for Tyranids to kill, and (b) it's good at killing... well, everything really!

Flyer - Sunshark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

With 89 points left... I guess we can add a squad of 3 Stealthsuits- they'll give you a little more mid-range anti-infantry. You can give these guys a Homing Beacon (you'd need to drop a Missile Pod from the Sunshark to do so) to help the Flamer squad, but frankly I wouldn't bother. Instead, use the Flamers to defend your main line (Longstrike, Fireblade, Fire Warriors).

Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons (90)

Here's the final list at 1250 points:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2 Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (225)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Elites - 3x XV8 Battlesuits w/ 9x Flamers; 4x Gun Drones (239)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons (90)
Fast Attack - Piranha w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (71)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 2x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (97)
Flyer - Sunshark Bomber w/ Markerlight, 2x Missile Pods, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Interceptor Drones (191)

Total: 1251 - Command points: 4 (1 Outrider Detachment, 1 Patrol Detachment)

What do you think?

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Blindeye
Shas'Saal
Posts: 88

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#14 » Jul 26 2017 10:36

Yeah you definitely have room for the bomber at 1250 pts.

HQ - Commander - 4x Fusion, 2 shield drones
HQ - Longstrike - Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x seekers
HQ - Cadre Fireblade - Markerlight
Troops - 5x fire warriors
Troops - 5x fire warriors
Troops - 5x fire warriors
Elites - 3x XV8 Battlesuits w/ 9x flamers, 4 gun drones
Elites - 3x XV25 Stealth Battlesuits - Homing Beacon
Fast Attack - Piranha w/ Burst Cannon, 2x Gun Drones, 2x Seeker Missiles
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlight
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlight
Flyer - Sun Shark Bomber

What about something like this? Added the Sun Shark and 3 stealth suits with a homing beacon to get those flamers into range off the Manta Strike. Had to cut the rail rifles to make it work points wise.
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SniperTau
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 159

Re: 1000 point vs nids

Post#15 » Jul 26 2017 10:39

I think Blindeye's list more fits how I play, so I will go with that. Thanks to both of you for the excellent advice. Also, I managed to fit another gun drone and multi-trackers for the stealth suits in.

Tau'va

Sniper

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