Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Discuss and develop your army list amongst new players and veterans alike.
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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#19 » Nov 03 2017 11:24

Panzer wrote:There are non. Our only chance is redundancy or hope the board offers enough LoS blocking so we can move out of cover and hit Markerlights on 5+. :neutral:


Nothing in any army is truly alpha proof to a determined opponent unless it is off the table. The best you can hope on the table would be LoS blocking like you say or layers of defense like embarking in vehicles or using characters.

Some strategies for Alpha Resistance beyond keeping them in cover or out of LoS:

Use Crisis to deliver ML Drones: Interesting strategy that I haven't really thought about. Combine it with a drone controller and you have a good way to make sure you get at least one turn with full markerlight support.

Put them in a Devilfish: Would at least require more dedicated shooting to crack your markerlight nut

Use Droneports: I've actually found this strategy pretty usefull. Keep them attached until your turn. Similar Durability to the Devilfish strategy and you can give them better BS than normal. On the down side...if the platform gets popped then you lose all of the drones still attached. When I've done this, I've taken 2-3 platforms and only had a max of 1 platform filly destroyed before I get to use them. It's not a horrible way to force a ton of your opponent's shooting on a 110 point model in his alpha.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Arka0415
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#20 » Nov 13 2017 01:59

With all this talk of alpha strike, Markerlights, and Flamers, I'm making a few changes to the list. One Gun Drone is getting dropped from each XV8 squad, replaced by a Markerlight Drone.

In addition, the second CIB XV8 squad is getting a suite of all Flamers; the points savings there are going to bringing back the Pathfinders' Rail Rifles.

In addition, if I play small games (500 or 1000 points) I think I'm going to give my Commanders one Shield Drone and one Marker Drone each, as opposed to two Shield Drones each.

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Arka0415
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#21 » Dec 06 2017 10:24

With a few tweaks the list is short 10 points. Here are some ideas I've had:

On the Devilfish,

+2 Seeker Missiles (+10)
A little more Seeker Missiles can't hurt, especially when it's easy to get 5 Markerlight hits.

...or, on the Stealthsuits,

+2 Shield Drones (16)
+1 Drone Controller (+5)
-1 Fusion Blaster (-21)
+1 Burst Cannon (+10)
This would improve the unit's durability, and hopefully improve their chance of deploying the Homing Beacon.

Any other ideas?

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#22 » Dec 06 2017 11:43

I looked at your collection. I'll tell you what I would play if I was only to build a 2000 k list. Maybe you'll like an idea or two and improve your list.

I would play (after getting buying 2marker drones)

1999pts] ++
Cadre Fireblade [ 42pts]: Markerlight
Cadre Fireblade [ 42pts]: Markerlight
Commander [176pts]: 4x FB,2 xShield
Commander [176pts]: 4x FB,2 xShield
Commander [154pts]: Ats, 3x Cib, 2xShield
Longstrike [ 225pts]: 2x SMS, Rail, 2x Seeker
Strike Team [43pts] 5xdudes, markerlight
Strike Team [43pts] 5xdudes, markerlight
Strike Team [43pts] 5xdudes, markerlight
Stealth suits [ 117pts] 2ats, fusion blaster
Crisis suits [279pts]: 6xMarker, DC, 8 plasma
Pathfinder Team [6 PL, 48pts] 6 x dudes
'Ride or die' Gun Drones [40pts]: x5
'Ride or die' Gun Drones [48pts]: x6
Hammer[ 198pts]: 2x Gundrone, Ion, 2x Seeker
Hammer[ 198pts]: 2x Gundrone, Ion, 2x Seeker
Devilfish [ 127pts]: 2x Gun Drone, Burst cannon

Running it in a supreme command, outrider and battalion dettachments. Includes a drone fish. 8 cp value.

I like the plasma team:
-one of the cheapest load outs
-plasma teams give high ap value to your army
-gives markerlights safely in reserve
-markerlights anywhere, off set bs score
-combos with seeker missles
-less points liability if killed off early
-higher reserve count for deployment
-Plasma team can manta strike @ 24"

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Shas'O R'Kai
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#23 » Dec 07 2017 11:43

So, before I offer my 2cents, can I clarify that you want a take all comers balanced list? Do you want to be able to compete at a tournament level of competitiveness or is it more just casual games? Just want to know before I start putting forward ideas that might be 'cheesy'! :D
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#24 » Dec 07 2017 07:52

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:So, before I offer my 2cents, can I clarify that you want a take all comers balanced list? Do you want to be able to compete at a tournament level of competitiveness or is it more just casual games? Just want to know before I start putting forward ideas that might be 'cheesy'! :D

As you've probably noticed I'm one of the more competitive players around here, however, I'm limited to the models you'd use in a 5th Edition army- Hammerheads, Broadsides, XV8s, Fire Warriors, etc. I'm avoiding an overhaul of the army until the Codex comes out- who knows what might happen!

If you can make it more competitive, by all means go for it! I may not have the models to support your ideas though, we'll see.

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Shas'O R'Kai
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#25 » Dec 08 2017 05:18

As you've probably noticed I'm one of the more competitive players around here, however, I'm limited to the models you'd use in a 5th Edition army- Hammerheads, Broadsides, XV8s, Fire Warriors, etc. I'm avoiding an overhaul of the army until the Codex comes out- who knows what might happen!

If you can make it more competitive, by all means go for it! I may not have the models to support your ideas though, we'll see.


Yeah, I've been a lurker on this site for a long time! I've seen you seem to be extremely knowledgeable on how to build a good list! Thanks for clarifying though. I think your list is pretty close to as good as a list can get. I think the only change that I'd make is to replace longstrike. Controversial I know! Hear me out...

Whilst Longstrike is undoubtedly powerful with his hit/wound of 2+, I think he's not quite the auto include that a lot seem to consider him as. When I look at any model in my army list, I always think "what is this unit going to DO. What's it's objective.". For Longstrike, it's long range anti-armour/light infantry. But ultimately he's only got the one powerful shot and some small arms fire. With good luck and assuming no inv saves on the opponent hard targets, hes gunna do 5/6 wounds. That's barely enough to half most vehicles wounds. From what I've seen, he performs well at 'cleanup duty'. He mops up whatever your commanders cant kill.

So, that's what he does for you. But what does he do for your opponent? He provides a very alpha strikable chunk of your army. To clarify, while all your suits are up in the air, what else have your opponents got to shoot their big heavy weapons at? Longstrike. This provides your opponent with a very easy decision if they go first. It helps feed them one of your power units on their first turn. Now of course, that's not always the case, but due to a fair number of drops we tend to not get the +1 to go first. I think of it as a 50/50 of having him blown away turn one by a competent shooty army.

So while, yes he's accurate and can spike his damage, he's not massively durable and gives your opponent a potential easy decision. From my experience, you can't go wrong with another commander. Taking a third QFC or a CIB commander keeps that level of firepower up nicely but also has the advantage of making you almost alpha strike proof. Certainly against the units you need alive. It also leaves you with some leftover points you can use to get more markerlights/drones/Firewarriors. More bodies on the ground is always great. The only thing you lose by replacing Longstrike is the potential to hit at long range. But that's mitigated by Mantastrike, 18" Melta and a potential homing beacon drop.

So after all that, here's where I'd take the list:

HQ - Aun’va, Master of the Undying Spirit; 2x Ethereal Honour Guard (75)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIB, ATS; 2x Shield Drones(154)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors + Markerlight (67)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Gun Drones (137)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon (115)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (68)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 7x Markerlights (56)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)


Total: 2000- CP: 8 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

I've added in the CIB commander, made the fire warriors 4 teams of 8 and added in a spare markerlight. I've also stuck a drone controller to the Stealth team. I've found the homing beacon not always feasible/needed. In which case its good to have that team link up with any nearby drones to boost their firepower. It wont always work but for 5 points, when it does you'll be glad to have it! The change to the Fire warriors cost about 40 points, so feel free to re jig that about to your preference.

Hope some of that helps! I'm eager to hear your take on what I said.

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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Arka0415
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#26 » Dec 08 2017 08:12

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:Yeah, I've been a lurker on this site for a long time! I've seen you seem to be extremely knowledgeable on how to build a good list! Thanks for clarifying though. I think your list is pretty close to as good as a list can get. I think the only change that I'd make is to replace longstrike. Controversial I know! Hear me out...

Whilst Longstrike is undoubtedly powerful with his hit/wound of 2+, I think he's not quite the auto include that a lot seem to consider him as. When I look at any model in my army list, I always think "what is this unit going to DO. What's it's objective.". For Longstrike, it's long range anti-armour/light infantry. But ultimately he's only got the one powerful shot and some small arms fire. With good luck and assuming no inv saves on the opponent hard targets, hes gunna do 5/6 wounds. That's barely enough to half most vehicles wounds. From what I've seen, he performs well at 'cleanup duty'. He mops up whatever your commanders cant kill.

Don't worry- you're absolutely correct here. If my third Commander was viable, I'd replace Longstrike in a heartbeat. For the time being I use Longstrike as a long-range option that takes down wounded and flagging vehicles ("cleanup duty" but I prefer to call it "execution" :D), but I know that is a lackluster role at best. The issue is, my third Commander is paint-stripped, disassembled, and missing parts that are OOP and need 3D-printing. It'll be a while before he hits the table. Besides that Commander, the only other long-ish range anti-tank units I have access to are Broadsides, which are even worse than Longstrike!

I feel a little bit hypocritical- I'm really active helping people make lists here on ATT, but due to my current army rebuild project (everything has been stripped, broken down into sub-assemblies, and is being repainted) I can't add the units I know will make my army stronger.

Your list looks very good- a lot like my old list before I swapped the second CIB squad out for a Flamer squad. If I had the points, I might put that second CIB squad back in... Flamers are good though, and I'd really love to keep them around. If I dropped Longstrike I think I'd keep at least one long-range unit, so that may lead me to adding a Missile Pod Commander instead of a CIB Commander. What would you think of this list, using yours as a base?

-

HQ - Aun’va, Master of the Undying Spirit; 2x Ethereal Honour Guard (75)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (75)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (75)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (75)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon (126)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)

Total: 2001 - CP: 8 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

A few things to note- I find that 2+4+5 Gun Drones works better than 5+6, and Pathfinders work best in squads of 5 or 6. Also I like to keep two pure Markerlight squads, for redundancy, since people love targeting them first! For this list I did add your Drone Controller (great upgrade, I'd neglected it!), third Commander, and second CIB XV8 team!

One thing is, if I had one more HQ or one more Fast Attack I could get another Command Point! Oh well. :D

What do you think?

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#27 » Dec 08 2017 08:45

Arka0415 wrote:
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:Yeah, I've been a lurker on this site for a long time! I've seen you seem to be extremely knowledgeable on how to build a good list! Thanks for clarifying though. I think your list is pretty close to as good as a list can get. I think the only change that I'd make is to replace longstrike. Controversial I know! Hear me out...

Whilst Longstrike is undoubtedly powerful with his hit/wound of 2+, I think he's not quite the auto include that a lot seem to consider him as. When I look at any model in my army list, I always think "what is this unit going to DO. What's it's objective.". For Longstrike, it's long range anti-armour/light infantry. But ultimately he's only got the one powerful shot and some small arms fire. With good luck and assuming no inv saves on the opponent hard targets, hes gunna do 5/6 wounds. That's barely enough to half most vehicles wounds. From what I've seen, he performs well at 'cleanup duty'. He mops up whatever your commanders cant kill.

Don't worry- you're absolutely correct here. If my third Commander was viable, I'd replace Longstrike in a heartbeat. For the time being I use Longstrike as a long-range option that takes down wounded and flagging vehicles ("cleanup duty" but I prefer to call it "execution" :D), but I know that is a lackluster role at best. The issue is, my third Commander is paint-stripped, disassembled, and missing parts that are OOP and need 3D-printing. It'll be a while before he hits the table. Besides that Commander, the only other long-ish range anti-tank units I have access to are Broadsides, which are even worse than Longstrike!

I feel a little bit hypocritical- I'm really active helping people make lists here on ATT, but due to my current army rebuild project (everything has been stripped, broken down into sub-assemblies, and is being repainted) I can't add the units I know will make my army stronger.

Your list looks very good- a lot like my old list before I swapped the second CIB squad out for a Flamer squad. If I had the points, I might put that second CIB squad back in... Flamers are good though, and I'd really love to keep them around. If I dropped Longstrike I think I'd keep at least one long-range unit, so that may lead me to adding a Missile Pod Commander instead of a CIB Commander. What would you think of this list, using yours as a base?

-

HQ - Aun’va, Master of the Undying Spirit; 2x Ethereal Honour Guard (75)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (75)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (75)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (75)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon (126)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)

Total: 2001 - CP: 8 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

A few things to note- I find that 2+4+5 Gun Drones works better than 5+6, and Pathfinders work best in squads of 5 or 6. Also I like to keep two pure Markerlight squads, for redundancy, since people love targeting them first! For this list I did add your Drone Controller (great upgrade, I'd neglected it!), third Commander, and second CIB XV8 team!

One thing is, if I had one more HQ or one more Fast Attack I could get another Command Point! Oh well. :D

What do you think?


Make the Pathfinders 5 per team, drop 1 Ion Rifle and add 2 more Pathfinders for a 4th team.. and there is your "one more fast attack".. Just getting one more HQ then

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Shas'O R'Kai
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#28 » Dec 08 2017 08:50

Don't worry- you're absolutely correct here. If my third Commander was viable, I'd replace Longstrike in a heartbeat. For the time being I use Longstrike as a long-range option that takes down wounded and flagging vehicles ("cleanup duty" but I prefer to call it "execution" :D), but I know that is a lackluster role at best. The issue is, my third Commander is paint-stripped, disassembled, and missing parts that are OOP and need 3D-printing. It'll be a while before he hits the table. Besides that Commander, the only other long-ish range anti-tank units I have access to are Broadsides, which are even worse than Longstrike!


Ahhhh, that's a bummer! Well, until your third commander is back from being out of commission Longstrike is probably the best option you have! Broadsides while awesome and cool(give us commander variants GW plzzzzz) are as you said, worse.

I feel a little bit hypocritical- I'm really active helping people make lists here on ATT, but due to my current army rebuild project (everything has been stripped, broken down into sub-assemblies, and is being repainted) I can't add the units I know will make my army stronger.


It's not hypocritical at all! You know the top tier options, but it's rarely possible to fully implement them. Takes nothing away from your great list building/tactics. You'll be really happy in the long run once it's all finished!

Your list looks very good- a lot like my old list before I swapped the second CIB squad out for a Flamer squad. If I had the points, I might put that second CIB squad back in... Flamers are good though, and I'd really love to keep them around. If I dropped Longstrike I think I'd keep at least one long-range unit, so that may lead me to adding a Missile Pod Commander instead of a CIB Commander. What would you think of this list, using yours as a base?


Yeah, after having a good think about the list and what's available and how it's going to function tactically I came to virtually the same list! Great minds and all that ;) Flamers are absolutely a fine substitute for the CIB squad. CIB parts are impossible to come by these days so flamers can be practical in addition to being powerful. I love them for the ability to be a true alpha unit against some armies. Theyre a bit less reliable but when they get a good match up... Things die! Overall I don't rate them worse or better than CIB. Theyre cheaper, faster, better at horde and great for taking assaults.

A missile commander works incredibly well I've found. He lacks a little damage output compared to some loadouts, but over the course of the game he makes up for it by having incredible range, and survivability via being a character. I used him in a 5 game tournament and he was amazing. Make him warlord and despite no Inv save, he'll very likely be the last to die. The range is also a great boost in versatility by being able to target what you want. He can be a good candidate to call a Kauyon if your gunline is in position but I much prefer dropping him somewhere very high up and out of the way.

A few things to note- I find that 2+4+5 Gun Drones works better than 5+6, and Pathfinders work best in squads of 5 or 6. Also I like to keep two pure Markerlight squads, for redundancy, since people love targeting them first! For this list I did add your Drone Controller (great upgrade, I'd neglected it!), third Commander, and second CIB XV8 team!

One thing is, if I had one more HQ or one more Fast Attack I could get another Command Point! Oh well. :D


That's a really good idea. I never considered that break up of the drones with the FB. Inspired my friend. I also tend to prefer Pathfinders in squads of 5. I tend to take them barebones as dedicated markerlights. I've found special guns just give them a bigger "shoot me" sign than they already have haha. The Drone controller is just a nice little addition you can make use of sometimes. Gives those stealth suits something else to do once the beacon is dropped!

Make the Pathfinders 5 per team, drop 1 Ion Rifle and add 2 more Pathfinders for a 4th team.. and there is your "one more fast attack".. Just getting one more HQ then


Well spotted! That would do the trick.

Overall I think that's a really solid, well balanced list. Can't get much more competitive(if at all) with the models you have, and even just in general. If you want to go proper cheesy you buy 2 Y'vahras, 100 Gun drones and some Fireblades/Drone Controllers :D But otherwise I think it's in a good place once you have your models all ready.
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

Muaddib195
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#29 » Dec 08 2017 08:59

Instead of trying to squeeze out an Outrider or Supreme Command Detachment, you could make another battalion fairly easily. You have 2 HQ units to spare, so you just need another set of 3 Troops.

Remove 1 model from each pathfinder team:
Fast Attack - 3x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (52)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)

Add 1 model to each Strike Team, and Split into squads of 5. Only half your Strike Teams would have markerlights, unless you want to free up 9 points somewhere. I think the 3 additional CP should make up for 3 fewer markerlights (from dropping the 3 Pathfinder models), since you can use the new strategem.

Battalion 1
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (43)
Battalion 2
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (40)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (40)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (40)

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#30 » Dec 08 2017 09:08

StealthKnightSteg wrote:Make the Pathfinders 5 per team, drop 1 Ion Rifle and add 2 more Pathfinders for a 4th team.. and there is your "one more fast attack".. Just getting one more HQ then


That would not work.. would need to drop 2 Ion rifles for the points of 2 pathfinders.. Or need to find those points elsewhere

and missed the OR part in HQ or fast attack..

But I think muaddib's suggestion would even be better

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Arka0415
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#31 » Dec 08 2017 09:27

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:Ahhhh, that's a bummer! Well, until your third commander is back from being out of commission Longstrike is probably the best option you have! Broadsides while awesome and cool(give us commander variants GW plzzzzz) are as you said, worse.

As an avid Broadside fan, I would absolute love to have a Broadside Commander. Would it be good? Who knows. Sweet modeling possibilities though!

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:It's not hypocritical at all! You know the top tier options, but it's rarely possible to fully implement them. Takes nothing away from your great list building/tactics. You'll be really happy in the long run once it's all finished!

Thanks! I guess it's that I suggest pretty hardline lists to people, then if you check out my own army list it's only about 80% there :D

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:Yeah, after having a good think about the list and what's available and how it's going to function tactically I came to virtually the same list! Great minds and all that ;) Flamers are absolutely a fine substitute for the CIB squad. CIB parts are impossible to come by these days so flamers can be practical in addition to being powerful. I love them for the ability to be a true alpha unit against some armies. Theyre a bit less reliable but when they get a good match up... Things die! Overall I don't rate them worse or better than CIB. Theyre cheaper, faster, better at horde and great for taking assaults.

Flamers are great, but there are so many benefits to a second CIB team too, now that you bring it up. CIB teams offer better anti-tank, have better synergy with Markerlights, are better at skirmishing, offer more solutions against more targets, and free up the Stealthsuits to drop a Fusion Commander. And my list already has a suicide anti-infantry squad in the form of the mechanized Gun Drones. Hmm...

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:A missile commander works incredibly well I've found. He lacks a little damage output compared to some loadouts, but over the course of the game he makes up for it by having incredible range, and survivability via being a character. I used him in a 5 game tournament and he was amazing. Make him warlord and despite no Inv save, he'll very likely be the last to die. The range is also a great boost in versatility by being able to target what you want. He can be a good candidate to call a Kauyon if your gunline is in position but I much prefer dropping him somewhere very high up and out of the way.

The first few games of 8th Edition I played, I used one Fusion Commander and one Missile Commander. The Missile Commander worked great at taking down Kastellan Robots and other light vehicles. Ultimately the Fusion Commander offers more raw damage, and since Imperial Knights are common in my local meta, I made the switch to a pair of Fusion Commanders. I'd love to get that Missile Commander back in action though.

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:That's a really good idea. I never considered that break up of the drones with the FB. Inspired my friend. I also tend to prefer Pathfinders in squads of 5. I tend to take them barebones as dedicated markerlights. I've found special guns just give them a bigger "shoot me" sign than they already have haha.

You're right that Pathfinders are a big alpha target, especially when they have special weapons. That's why I made the switch away from Rail Rifles two weeks ago- ultimately the damage output is similar, and you have fewer points on the line when that alpha comes. Though honestly, if they focus on the Ion Rifles, then that means the dedicated Markerlight squads survive longer, and they're the real threat.

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:Overall I think that's a really solid, well balanced list. Can't get much more competitive (if at all) with the models you have, and even just in general. If you want to go proper cheesy you buy 2 Y'vahras, 100 Gun drones and some Fireblades/Drone Controllers :D But otherwise I think it's in a good place once you have your models all ready.

You're right; I noted this in the first post in this thread, but I'm holding off on any "crazy" additions, like a bunch of Gun Drones or whatever. I'm a hardcore optimist but even I feel the sense that Gun Drones and Commanders won't be quite as good in the new Codex. Y'vahras, who knows- I'm cautious about buying one, as a tournament player I'd hate to grow attached to one only to find it banned in local tournaments.

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For list expansions, StealthKnightSteg and Muaddib, I definitely understand your suggestions, and I'd love to make them if I had the models! Currently I'm lacking enough Fire Warrior Shas'ui models (I only have 3) to make the extra Battalion, and I don't have enough ordinary Pathfinders to make the extra Outrider Detachment work. I'm working quickly on the army rebuild, but I still have a lot of battlesuits to build and paint before I can add more infantry! :D

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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#32 » Dec 08 2017 10:56

As an avid Broadside fan, I would absolute love to have a Broadside Commander. Would it be good? Who knows. Sweet modeling possibilities though!


Hey, with a new Codex anything is possible! A Commander missileside would be pretty deadly. It's possible if you consider Ob'lotai(spelling is hard).

Thanks! I guess it's that I suggest pretty hardline lists to people, then if you check out my own army list it's only about 80% there :D


Yeah, but the important thing is that you know what's optimal. Whether or not its possible to put down a truly optimised force is another question! You'd have to have a lot of spare time/cash to be able to keep it properly WYSIWYG. My friends and I tend to play a rule of 90% WYSIWYG. As long as its mostly representative or converted it's not an issue. Plus the local tournaments I've been to tend not be super militant about it. Anyone that calls you out for it is really someone you're not going to enjoy playing.

Flamers are great, but there are so many benefits to a second CIB team too, now that you bring it up. CIB teams offer better anti-tank, have better synergy with Markerlights, are better at skirmishing, offer more solutions against more targets, and free up the Stealthsuits to drop a Fusion Commander. And my list already has a suicide anti-infantry squad in the form of the mechanized Gun Drones. Hmm...


I agree with prettymuch everything you've said there! The fact that CIB wont need the beacon is probably the biggest point for me. That's massively important. One of the things I like about the flamer suits though is their lack of needing markerlights. It frees up the pathfinders to concentrate fire on one or two targets. When I build a list I try to have as few marker reliant units as possible. It depends on the list, but I'd probably give the edge to the CIB suits. It's a small edge, but the versatility is what does it for me, and like you said you already have a decent anti horde taskforce with the drones.

The first few games of 8th Edition I played, I used one Fusion Commander and one Missile Commander. The Missile Commander worked great at taking down Kastellan Robots and other light vehicles. Ultimately the Fusion Commander offers more raw damage, and since Imperial Knights are common in my local meta, I made the switch to a pair of Fusion Commanders. I'd love to get that Missile Commander back in action though.


Ahhhh, if your meta is lots of big hard targets then I understand the Fusion commanders. Personally I never take a list without 2 of them. Might seem overkill but I've usually got so many answers for everything else that it's not too hard to work in some anti-large redundancy. Once you get a third commander, the missiles are a great alternative to the CIB's. If you're looking for a fun way to have a missile commander, I'd suggest the forgeworld crisis suit model with the smart missile system at the top of its jetpack. It looks perfect for a missile commander if you build one of the arms into a missile pod. Gives you 2 on the shoulders, one on the arm and the other arm can be converted into some sort of targeting array type thing(aka ATS). It's what I use for it!

You're right that Pathfinders are a big alpha target, especially when they have special weapons. That's why I made the switch away from Rail Rifles two weeks ago- ultimately the damage output is similar, and you have fewer points on the line when that alpha comes. Though honestly, if they focus on the Ion Rifles, then that means the dedicated Markerlight squads survive longer, and they're the real threat.


That's actually a really good point on focusing the ion rifles leaving your other squads free and clear. I want to try the ions out. Seems like they could be really nice for some long range harassment. I'd love to try the rail rifles... I really really would. But I just cant justify the points. Maybe if they dropped by 4pts or something...(hint hint GW).

You're right; I noted this in the first post in this thread, but I'm holding off on any "crazy" additions, like a bunch of Gun Drones or whatever. I'm a hardcore optimist but even I feel the sense that Gun Drones and Commanders won't be quite as good in the new Codex. Y'vahras, who knows- I'm cautious about buying one, as a tournament player I'd hate to grow attached to one only to find it banned in local tournaments.


I'm much the same as you to be honest. I'll optimise the heck out of a list, but I really cant stand spammy cheese lists. The fluff bunny in me just really doesn't like it. I always find them boring. Using 100 gun drones would take forever and be no fun for anyone imo. The reason I play T'au(and 40k in general) is to have different units work together, pioneering new and interesting tactics, and out manoeuvring my opponent. Then make a great little narrative for the game! I will say though, that the Y'vahra is one of the most balls out fun units to field and play around. It's potentially as powerful and competitive as the commander. I say potentially because it needs support, but if you support it... this thing can have the highest damage output in the game. I've yet to come across a unit that out damages this thing that isn't a Titan. If nothing else it's a gorgeous model. I'd talk to your local tournament organisers if you can and see what they say. If they allow forgeworld then I'd absolutely recommend picking one up. My local tournament organisers allow it, but have a points limit of 500pts on FW models which I think is a great way of doing it.

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Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#33 » Dec 08 2017 11:21

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:Yeah, but the important thing is that you know what's optimal. Whether or not its possible to put down a truly optimised force is another question! You'd have to have a lot of spare time/cash to be able to keep it properly WYSIWYG. My friends and I tend to play a rule of 90% WYSIWYG. As long as its mostly representative or converted it's not an issue. Plus the local tournaments I've been to tend not be super militant about it. Anyone that calls you out for it is really someone you're not going to enjoy playing.

Issue is, the person who calls me out on it... is me! I can't stand not using WYSIWYG units, because I tend to play using what I see, not what I wrote into my list. Maybe my memory is going. Either way if I see a Pathfinder with a Rail Rifle on the field, I'm going to shoot that Rail Rifle, whether or not the model is "actually" holding a Markerlight... :D

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:I agree with prettymuch everything you've said there! The fact that CIB wont need the beacon is probably the biggest point for me. That's massively important.

I love the idea of having a Flamer XV8 squad touch down near a unit, but if they fail to do so (i.e. the Stealthsuits are destroyed before the XV8s can be deployed) then their shooting is wasted for an entire turn, which is very bad outcome for a unit that's already a bit lackluster when it comes to points efficiency. Fusion Commanders use Homing Beacons, on the other hand, are improved by the Beacon but are not totally dependent on it. A CIB unit that frees up the Homing Beacon for a Fusion Commander might be the way to go then.

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:That's actually a really good point on focusing the ion rifles leaving your other squads free and clear. I want to try the ions out. Seems like they could be really nice for some long range harassment. I'd love to try the rail rifles... I really really would. But I just cant justify the points. Maybe if they dropped by 4pts or something...(hint hint GW).

Run the numbers on Ion Rifles and you'll see that they're just as good as Rail Rifles when firing at T7 vehicles. Ion Rifles have more shots and a higher strength, while Rail Rifles simply do more damage. Since Ion Rifles cost less than 1/3 the cost of Rail Rifles, their much easier to take and frankly better once you realize they have equal damage for a third the cost. Rail Rifles really shine against Primaris Marines and Terminators, but... I guess I have CIB XV8s for that!

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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#34 » Dec 12 2017 08:01

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:
Don't worry- you're absolutely correct here. If my third Commander was viable, I'd replace Longstrike in a heartbeat. For the time being I use Longstrike as a long-range option that takes down wounded and flagging vehicles ("cleanup duty" but I prefer to call it "execution" :D), but I know that is a lackluster role at best. The issue is, my third Commander is paint-stripped, disassembled, and missing parts that are OOP and need 3D-printing. It'll be a while before he hits the table. Besides that Commander, the only other long-ish range anti-tank units I have access to are Broadsides, which are even worse than Longstrike!


Ahhhh, that's a bummer! Well, until your third commander is back from being out of commission Longstrike is probably the best option you have!


So, after some thought, I think I'm just making excuses. Sure my third Commander is in bad shape, but we're modelers, right? We build things. I'll get to rebuilding that Commander and I'll swap Longstrike out for it. Here's what the new list might look like:

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HQ - Aun’va, Master of the Undying Spirit; 2x Ethereal Honour Guard (75)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (75)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (75)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (75)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon (126)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)

Total: 2001 - CP: 8 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

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What do you think?

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Shas'O R'Kai
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#35 » Dec 13 2017 04:50

Arka0415 wrote:
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:
Don't worry- you're absolutely correct here. If my third Commander was viable, I'd replace Longstrike in a heartbeat. For the time being I use Longstrike as a long-range option that takes down wounded and flagging vehicles ("cleanup duty" but I prefer to call it "execution" :D), but I know that is a lackluster role at best. The issue is, my third Commander is paint-stripped, disassembled, and missing parts that are OOP and need 3D-printing. It'll be a while before he hits the table. Besides that Commander, the only other long-ish range anti-tank units I have access to are Broadsides, which are even worse than Longstrike!


Ahhhh, that's a bummer! Well, until your third commander is back from being out of commission Longstrike is probably the best option you have!


So, after some thought, I think I'm just making excuses. Sure my third Commander is in bad shape, but we're modelers, right? We build things. I'll get to rebuilding that Commander and I'll swap Longstrike out for it. Here's what the new list might look like:

-

HQ - Aun’va, Master of the Undying Spirit; 2x Ethereal Honour Guard (75)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight; 2x Gun Drones (58)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (75)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (75)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors w/ Markerlight (75)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 6x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 3x ATS; 6x Gun Drones (306)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ Fusion Blaster, 2x Burst Cannons, Drone Controller, Homing Beacon (126)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)

Total: 2001 - CP: 8 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

What do you think?


I think that considering the models you have, this is pretty much perfect. Sure you could tinker with it according to the meta/playstyle you want but as a TAC list, this is pretty damn strong. Probably as strong as you'll get without adding more models(read commander, drones and FW).

My only suggestion would be to see if you can add 3 firewarriors by removing 3 pathfinders. Then split the 3 teams of 10 down to 6 teams of 5 and make it 2 battalion detachments. But I think I remember you saying that you didn't have enough Shas'Ui painted and you wanted to have that fully represented. If that's the case, then I think you're pretty much done! Looks like a fun and competitive list Arka.
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Re: Arka0415's 8th Edition Amy List

Post#36 » Dec 13 2017 10:16

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:My only suggestion would be to see if you can add 3 firewarriors by removing 3 pathfinders. Then split the 3 teams of 10 down to 6 teams of 5 and make it 2 battalion detachments. But I think I remember you saying that you didn't have enough Shas'Ui painted and you wanted to have that fully represented. If that's the case, then I think you're pretty much done! Looks like a fun and competitive list Arka.

Yeah, when I get those Shas'ui painted up I'll certainly make that change. For the time being I need to get my XV8s, and that Commander, assembled though. I'm really hoping we see 15+ points dropped from every XV8 when the Codex comes out, I'd love to see this list drop to 1900 or fewer points.

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