Semi-Competitive 2000pt List

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yazzledazzle
Shas
Posts: 2

Semi-Competitive 2000pt List

Post#1 » Aug 10 2017 11:01

I'm joining a new 40k club in my area that does a good mix of casual and competitive play and I need help crafting a good 8th ed 2000pt list and getting suggestions on what some good additions/substitutions can be made to my army. I bought all my models in 6th edition so I'm sure there's lots of room for improvement. I'm using almost every model that I own. I wish I could throw more drones in but I'm currently short on them. Never would have guessed they'd be so good in 8th! At the end I have a few ideas for where I could take my army but I'm pretty new and will take any critism and feedback I can get. Also if you guys have any recommendations for how to play this army, I'd love to hear it. I've got my basic plays down below.

Goals
===============
First, I'm on a budget so I can't overhaul the whole army. I'm hoping I've got a solid enough foundation that we're talking about tweaks and a general direction it can move.
I also need ways to deal with lords of war. Most members tend to field one in every army.
I will also be playing a lot of psyker heavy armies (gray knights, chaos, eldar) and those are the ones making me most nervous. Tomorrow I'm up against a gray knights player who has a ton of deepstriking melee units...
I don't want my list to be cheesy! I want it to be just as fun to play against as it is for me to play.

List [1998/2000pt] Battalion Detachment (missing one heavy support for brigade...)
===============

HQs:
[62pt] Fireblade + 2 Marker Drones (fire-line support and also likely my warlord as he's probably easiest to keep alive and bubble wrapped and the leadership bubble to keep the troops in line)
[176 pt] Commander with 4 fusion guns + 2 Shield Drones (manta strike to deal with heavy support or LoW?)
[164 pt] Commander with 3 Cyclic Ion Blasters and ATS + 2 Shield Drones (manta strike to deal with light vehicles and elites)

Troops:
[75,75,67 pt] 3 x Strike teams with 1 Shas'ui and 6 warriors with pulse rifles and 2 gun drones each (except on squad with 1 drone) all the Shas'uis have markerlights
[60 pt] Kroot x 12 (bubble wrap, deep strike prevention and charge buffer for gun-line) These are a relatively new addition as I found I was having issues keeping melee focused units away from my gun-line.

Elites:
[98pt] Stealth Suits (Shas'vre with 2 Shas'ui all with burst cannons and a single gun drone) Hated these guys last edition but love them now
[109pt] Stealth Suits (Shas'vre with Fusion Blaster and 2 Shas'ui with burst cannons and a single gun drone)
[333 pt] Crisis Bodyguards (two with MP,MP,PR and one with MP,PR and FB accompanied with 5 gun drones and a marker) My thoughts on these guys is they'd deploy in the backline on turn 2 or 3 and be enough of a threat that my opponent will need to split his forces and lighten up the pressure on the gun-line and hammerheads)

Fast Attack:
[84pt] Pathfinder (Pulse Accelerator Drone, 4 pathfinders, 1 Shas'ui and 3 ion-rifles) These guys would deploy need the gun-line to lend markerlight support and also to give the drone
[121 pt] Pathfinder (4 pathfinder, 1 shas'ui and 3 rail rifles) Honestly not sure how to best make use of these guys and they seem expensive...
[164 pt] Piranhas (2 with fusion blaster) Mobility and harassment

Heavy Support:
[205, 205 pt] 2x Hammerheads with railgun, SMS and 2 seeker missiles each

Overall Gameplan
=====================
Overall, I want to force my opponent into making lots of tough choices. I want to be everywhere with solid threats that need committing to. I'd deploy all the suits in manta strike and then form a bubble with my firewarriors and kroot around the fireblade and hammerheads. Deep strike the suits in their backline and use the piranhas to draw fire away from the core blob while they pick apart the big stuff.

Known Issues
=====================
-I'll never get to go first... I have so many drops!
-I feel like my list is super weak to horde armies, flyer heavy armies and that silly 3 super heavy army
-I feel like the pathfinders with rail rifles may not fit in the army. I'm never sure where to use them and the guns are scary enough that my opponents will focus them down pretty early and easily
-I've got no dedicated anti-flyer stuff
-Everything moves pretty slow and benefits from being pretty blobbed up so I don't feel very mobile. I played a game which was basically king of the hill and my opponent got there and bubbled it turn 1. Turn 4, they had almost nothing left but even with 1.5 turns left I couldn't get any of my guys in range so we ended up tying cause I couldn't table him.
- In a killpoint game I'd be handing so many small units on a silver platter.

Potential Directions
=====================
1. Swap the kroot and a pathfinder squad for another hammerhead with longstrike (i love this guy and hammerheads in this edition)
2. Swap the kroot, pathfinders and trim some points for a stormsurge (never seen him played in 8th)
3. Ditch the hammerheads and add more firewarriors and crisis suits (maybe a flamer squad to take advantage of the stealth suit homing beacons)
4. Flyers...? Coldstar?

Questions
=====================
How many markerlights do you guys recommend? I've only been playing to get 1 off on everyone I want to shoot at and a couple extras on one guy to get seeker missile'd.

How do we deal with invulnerable save heavy armies? There's a harlequin player in the club and that army terrifies me.They seem pretty tailor made for dealing with us.

Do I have enough firepower to deal with most Lords of War? I played an army last week with a Chaos Knight and 3 hell-brutes in their army and it felt really hit-or miss whether I'd have enough firepower to deal with it all. My fusion commander and hammerheads needed 3 turns to kill the knight and by then, I knocked out 1.5 hellbrutes and they had killed my entire crisis team.

Are our flyers any good? I've never seen them fielded...

Thanks for anything you guys can recommend. I'm a bit nervous about my next few games so I'm probably overthinking everything :eek:

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 437

Re: Semi-Competitive 2000pt List

Post#2 » Aug 10 2017 12:35

yazzledazzle wrote:Troops:
[75,75,67 pt] 3 x Strike teams with 1 Shas'ui and 6 warriors with pulse rifles and 2 gun drones each (except on squad with 1 drone) all the Shas'uis have markerlights

Elites:
[98pt] Stealth Suits (Shas'vre with 2 Shas'ui all with burst cannons and a single gun drone) Hated these guys last edition but love them now
[109pt] Stealth Suits (Shas'vre with Fusion Blaster and 2 Shas'ui with burst cannons and a single gun drone)


Go with 2 drones per squad or none. 1 Is a very bad commitment as it offers 1PL for KP whether it is a single or two of them.

Don't mix burst cannons and fusion in your stealth squad. Not sure about taking two squads when you aren't taking either of them with a homing beacon.

yazzledazzle wrote:[333 pt] Crisis Bodyguards (two with MP,MP,PR and one with MP,PR and FB accompanied with 5 gun drones and a marker) My thoughts on these guys is they'd deploy in the backline on turn 2 or 3 and be enough of a threat that my opponent will need to split his forces and lighten up the pressure on the gun-line and hammerheads)


Mixing the weapons on the crisis is not a very good choice. Take them for CIB or flamer platforms and large drone squads. Almost never need to take crisis bodyguards, waste of points here imo.

yazzledazzle wrote:Heavy Support:
[205, 205 pt] 2x Hammerheads with railgun, SMS and 2 seeker missiles each

If you're not taking Longstrike these choices are awful. He's only 20 points more and makes the other one better.

yazzledazzle wrote:-I'll never get to go first... I have so many drops!

If you play ITC rules it's only +1 to the favor of who finishes deploy first.

yazzledazzle wrote:-I feel like my list is super weak to horde armies, flyer heavy armies and that silly 3 super heavy army


Never underestimate fireblade with firewarriors/pathfinders. Not sure how you can suck against large numbers AND small number with the same list but ok. If you swap out a few things this list is pretty good and you'll see it do work against anything. Play the missions instead of trying to wipe your opponent every single game.

yazzledazzle wrote:-I feel like the pathfinders with rail rifles may not fit in the army. I'm never sure where to use them and the guns are scary enough that my opponents will focus them down pretty early and easily


If they are scared of pathfinders, great. If they aren't scared of pathfinders, great. I suggest taking another 5 or 6 man squad for just lights to give yourself a better shot at getting 5+ on a single target. Rail rifles bring down medium toughness (read T5 or T6) 2-4 wound models really really well. Get them in rapid fire range at 15" and they get 2 shots a piece which is fairly respectable.

yazzledazzle wrote:-I've got no dedicated anti-flyer stuff


Nothing is truly anti flyer anymore, even the skyray. You can get a VT on a single model which is cool on maybe the stormsurge or riptide or ghostkeel but even then you may as well just have a commander target it which is what the big boys do.

yazzledazzle wrote:-Everything moves pretty slow and benefits from being pretty blobbed up so I don't feel very mobile. I played a game which was basically king of the hill and my opponent got there and bubbled it turn 1. Turn 4, they had almost nothing left but even with 1.5 turns left I couldn't get any of my guys in range so we ended up tying cause I couldn't table him.

You can advance and shoot with assault weapons and there are many ways for us to ignore the penalties with markerlights or Mont'ka. Even firewarriors with fireblade have zero reason to be stationary anymore. If your opponent was castling up and you couldn't reach him, you were doing it wrong, no offense.

yazzledazzle wrote:- In a killpoint game I'd be handing so many small units on a silver platter.


KP is an issue if you're not using the ITC version which uses PL for the squads you kill which is SIGNIFICANTLY more balanced. If you know it's going to be a KP mission where you aren't using this, give yourself the advantage and hide the drones but make it so that your opponent COULD see them if they moved to a certain spot so that you can dictate their movement and spring a trap once you've moved them into a good spot. Play tactical, this game isn't always about the numbers.

yazzledazzle wrote:How many markerlights do you guys recommend? I've only been playing to get 1 off on everyone I want to shoot at and a couple extras on one guy to get seeker missile'd.


I like about 15ish. It allows some wiggle room for people dying but I can fairly reliably get a 5+ on a single target for a turn maybe 2.

yazzledazzle wrote:How do we deal with invulnerable save heavy armies? There's a harlequin player in the club and that army terrifies me.They seem pretty tailor made for dealing with us.


Drown them in fire or seeker missles. Longstrike and friends deliver missles on a 2+ RR1's if you put two lights on the target. If you put 3 lights on a target, the other HH's can move and still hit on 2's.

yazzledazzle wrote:Do I have enough firepower to deal with most Lords of War? I played an army last week with a Chaos Knight and 3 hell-brutes in their army and it felt really hit-or miss whether I'd have enough firepower to deal with it all. My fusion commander and hammerheads needed 3 turns to kill the knight and by then, I knocked out 1.5 hellbrutes and they had killed my entire crisis team.


QFC should expect to do 6 wounds on a target with a 5+ invuln but really you can count on a bit more than that since if you should likely burn a CP to reroll on one of the 2 or 3 bad damage results you could get. If you run CIB's with crisis suits you can expect 7 wounds with 5 lights. Bringing a knight to half with these two squads alone is definitely a solid help since he loses a BS for it among other things like movement. And that's not including taking two railgun shots with chances to deal mortal wounds plus seekers which are pretty much auto removing 4 wounds with no saves(97.22% chance to hit per seeker). You should be able to handle a knight a turn with slight modifications to this list.

yazzledazzle
Shas
Posts: 2

Re: Semi-Competitive 2000pt List

Post#3 » Aug 10 2017 01:22

Thanks a ton! This is incredibly helpful!

The drones on the strike team squads makes a ton of sense. I'll give one squad 2 and the others will be bare.

Don't mix burst cannons and fusion in your stealth squad. Not sure about taking two squads when you aren't taking either of them with a homing beacon.


I see your point... I was on the fence about the homing beacons as only my QFC benefits from the <9" deep-striking. I took 2 sets mainly because they seemed like decent burst cannon platforms and I wanted a bit more durable anti-infantry guns. I agree with the mixing weapons on them and will be performing surgery on my suit in a few hours.

Mixing the weapons on the crisis is not a very good choice. Take them for CIB or flamer platforms and large drone squads. Almost never need to take crisis bodyguards, waste of points here imo.


Hmm so if I swap em out with a drone controller and flamers, I can use the extra points to give my stealth suits homing beacons... Definitely seeing the synergy there. Would I need to compensate for the loss of mid-str/ap weaponry elsewhere? My rational for the bodyguards is the point difference isn't huge and it lets me use their wounds to keep a commander (or now longstrike) alive a bit longer but I guess I got into that mindset cause I knew they wouldn't pull their weight as they were.

If you're not taking Longstrike these choices are awful. He's only 20 points more and makes the other one better.


Good call. Honestly not sure why I didn't think about bringing him... Definitely going to throw him in. Added benefit of giving me 4 HQs so I can get an extra command point by bringing a Supreme Command Detachment

All the rest was awesome. I got way more than I was expecting so soon! :D

In a couple weeks I'm going to go and buy a new addition for the army so what would you recommend given the rest of what I've got here? If I swap my suits into flamers with a drone controller and my stealth suits to have homing beacons and throw longstrike into a hammerhead, which unit(s) do you think are the weakest?

User avatar
Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 437

Re: Semi-Competitive 2000pt List

Post#4 » Aug 10 2017 02:04

Personally I'd drop a stealth squad and add a beacon to the other for mister QFC so that you can up your damage chances from 6 per turn to 7.6 per turn. I'd definitely roll with CIB's on the crisis and 6 drones behind them. Throw a DC on the stealths too so you can use them to bump drones if they need to be in the area.

Adding a DC to the CIB commander and having him drop down with the other CIB crisis with their gun drones buffs 8 gun drones with him there so that's also a good choice. You get 36 shots of str7 -1 ap and 32 str5 shots. Trust me when I say this squad does WORK.

I would also try and see if you can squeeze in some min squads of gun drones too. These are all just thoughts but I feel this is a good set up.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2188

Re: Semi-Competitive 2000pt List

Post#5 » Aug 11 2017 11:27

If we take Yojimbob's advice (which was great by the way!) we might end up with a list that looks like this:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (225)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits (90)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits (90)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 3x Ion Rifles (76)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 3x Rail Rifles (121)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48) [These Gun Drones are for screening, instead of Kroot]
Heavy Support - Hammerhead Gunship w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (205)
Heavy Support - Hammerhead Gunship w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (205)

Total: 1997 - Command Points: 8 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

What do you think?

-

yazzledazzle wrote:How many markerlights do you guys recommend? I've only been playing to get 1 off on everyone I want to shoot at and a couple extras on one guy to get seeker missile'd.

Like Yojimbob said, 15 is a good number but you can probably get away with taking as few as 10.

yazzledazzle wrote:How do we deal with invulnerable save heavy armies? There's a harlequin player in the club and that army terrifies me.They seem pretty tailor made for dealing with us.

Actually, they're not as bad as you think. With the excption of the Railgun, Rail Rifle, and Fusion Blaster, Tau weapons have notoriously low AP. In the list I posted above, you have 105 low-AP guns and 9 high-AP guns. Blast away!

yazzledazzle wrote:Do I have enough firepower to deal with most Lords of War?

Definitely. Assuming you focus the Lord of War, your Fusion Commander should be able to deal 6-9 wounds. Those 3 Hammerheads you can count on to deal 6-12 wounds. And this isn't even factoring in the Cyclic Ion Blasters, Rail Rifles, and Missile Pods!

yazzledazzle wrote:Are our flyers any good? I've never seen them fielded...

The Razorshark is pretty bad. The Sun Shark is a solid choice, situationally effective but easy to counter. The Barracuda is pretty powerful. The Tiger Shark is an absolute beast that will dominate games.

yazzledazzle wrote:Thanks for anything you guys can recommend. I'm a bit nervous about my next few games so I'm probably overthinking everything :eek:

Don't worry!! Just remember: fire Markerlights first, establish target priority, and engage targets in the order of priority. Also, don't forget that it's okay to sacrifice units to let more valuable units survive! It's all for the greater good.

Tau'va!

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