First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Discuss and develop your army list amongst new players and veterans alike.
PuppetMaster
Shas
Posts: 19

First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#1 » Aug 10 2017 04:20

Introduction:
I played 40k briefly baby size 2004. A lot has happened since then! I just got drawn back to the money black hole by new friends now fighting for the greater good! I am presently building a new list where I will work my way up to 1000 points that is the local reference.

Goal:
I don’t envision the list winning any tournaments. It is to be fun! My first real army. That said, losing horribly is not fun :( I am envisioning a tau purist special forces style and feel! I want a slightly different feel and playstyle to it than mass mech that all friends except being on the way. Ideally none. Taking less physical space and a painting and look I prefer.

My goals with this thread are two: First, is the concept viable or a must scrap as I can never ever win? I have read a lot of hate for the sniper units. I have gathered the positive constructive aspects to what I feel could be usable. Second, making the list as good and prepared as can be within the theme at 1000 point mark. Any changes at all are possible to the list, only have a set of FW & stealth waiting to order the rest :)

Prime opponents play Genestealer cult, Deathwatch, Death Guard, CSM/Daemons + factions to be added.

Method and thoughts:
The units I am looking at are Shadowsun, fireblade, fire warriors, pathfinders, stealths, and sniper teams. As I expand beyond 1000 ghostkeel and devilfish are pondered.
I envision a big sniper team (6-9) with two+ spotters and a Fireblade for extra shots effectively doubling output. This seems the best way to run them. I feel as there could be some (tier 2..) synergy within but I am fresh new to the game.

I envision, maybe incorrectly, mobile stealth teams deepstriking with Shadowsun to run fear into the backline and hunt tank/mech backsides and the sniper team/s in cover with as large line of sight as possible and the pathfinders painting targets and fire warriors as breachers. Forcing the enemy to commit to one side. Giving either the backline or frontline value. The reinforced pathfinder squad I am unsure about but they reroll 1s with 1 markerlight so seems interesting. This plays more into the special forces feel and I’ve heard some testing them that their opponents felt breachers & upgraded PF were scary when within reach. No devilfish presently, so expensive in points. Nearly no drones on the list, unsure about that, don’t mind drones at all, happily take a full drone squad in place of FW for aesthetics, looks good on mathahmmer? Thought about changing a FW team out for them.

So would this list be the divide and conquer special forces or the sacrificial lambs?

1001 points

HQ: Shadowsun (with stealth team) (167)
HQ: Fireblade (with sniper team) (39)

Troops: 10 man Fire warrior strike team (83)
Markerlight
Troops: 10 man Fire warrior breach team (83)
Markerlight
Troops: 10 man Fire warrior breach team (83)
Markerlight

Fast attack - 6 man pathfinder team (51)
3 x ion rifle upgrade
Fast attack - 5 man pathfinder team (46)
3 x ion rifle upgrade
Fast attack - 5 man pathfinder team (25)

Elite - 5 XV25 Stealth team (100)
Elite - 6 XV25 Stealth team with Shadowsun from HQ (120)

Heavy support - 9 Sniper drones + 2 firesight marksmen, Fireblade from HQ attached extra shots all around (162 + 42)



Viability? Changes? Reflections
So are we looking at total revision back to the drawing board or is the list idea salvable with changes? Constructive positive feedback preferred but if I am walking into the black abyss of never winning I prefer to know. Assuming the concept is viable, any changes to the list will be up for discussion. Yet to make the big order.

Quad commander 4x fusion, too good to pass up? Some say Shadowsun in 8th is unusable, others soso or ok.
Only breachers & drone team?
Devilfish must then? Objectives will be hard?
Remove pathfinder team for dual full XV25?
Devilfish? Charge. Prefer no mech no veichles at 1000 mark. Movement objective breachers. Synergy with breachers/fusion PF. Tactical cover. Charge.
Been toying with the idea as linked below having single firesight marksman for sustained markerlight. Don’t see it though with the points and units.
No drones presently to soak wounds :(

References:
Firesight marksmen (without sniper drones)
viewtopic.php?t=25798

Sniper drone team, how big?
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=24170

Breacher vs strike team? When, where, and why?
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=23938

Breacher discussion
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23766&start=126

Marker drones and you
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=26277

Pathfinders, and their sudden host of options
http://advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic ... 6&start=18

Competitive Tau
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26313

Review of units for competitive list
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=26269

Antao
Shas'Saal
Posts: 46

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#2 » Aug 10 2017 05:59

Fireblade does not affect longshot pulse rifles.

jukebox
Shas
Posts: 8

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#3 » Aug 10 2017 06:23

Well, I'm sure there are others more skilled in the mathhammer than I, but I'll offer my experiences.
Let's start with your leadership and go from there.

Shadowsun:
I really, really want to use her, cause I think it's a cool character, I dig the model, and having a named character lead has its appeal. Unfortunately, she has nothing to warrant the points value. A QFC is just better bang for buck. A QFC with 2 shield drones is less tha shadowsun. So her -1 to-hit is kinda meh when you can dump it into the drones. And sacrificing stealth suits is a lame ability. Plus, regardless, 2 FB vs 4.... math simple enough even I can do it. So.... I like her, she just doesn't have enough on paper to warrant the cost.


Fireblade:

They've got a fair bit of utility, especially if you use them to get a marker light on something first, so you can use it to reroll 1s for subsequent lights. Rerolling will be needed for those ion rifles.

Parhfinders:

I am a huge fan of these guys. Honestly, if I could, I'd take them over strike teams. And if I could run them with ion and rail rifles only, even better. When a rail rifle hits, it's great. When you wound on a 6, it's fantastic. I know there is more 'efficient' damage for point models, but I feel like they represent me and my playstyle. I'd recommend trying out some rails as well as the ions. Both are cool, but I just get a tingle when I get a metal wound. I suppose I'm easy to please. My biggest gripe is that they aren't the actual snipers, with the ability to pick out characters.

Breachers vs strike:

I've found I'm playing a more aggressive, mobile force. As a result, my breachers have done some work. I prefer them to strike teams for a few reasons; better ap, and assault so I don't worry about advancing. Sure, the rife have better range. But they're generally negated. More on that at the end.

Snipers and Marksman:

Honestly, not worth it. Here's the thing. I love the models, want to use them, but they do nothing. ThEyre just equipped with a long range pulse rifle. Which means 0 ap. In my experience thus far, AP is king. Your strength/toughess equation is secondary to how much of their save you can strip.my strike teams do little to no damage, generally, because of the prevalence of 3+ saves. And if you're targeting a character, they're gonna have a decent save. So you're playing crappy odds, and that doesn't favour me. If you're set on them, use them. But in my limited experience, 0 ap weapons are bleh, and get shrugged off too much for my liking. I'd just find the guys frustrating. And the marksman, without the drones, arent worth their salt.

Stealth teams;

Love the models, love the role. Same problem exists with the damage. If you're playing against power armour, it'll be frustrating to see those burst cannons ping off the saves. But, I like them and use them often, even if they do little to nothing.

PuppetMaster
Shas
Posts: 19

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#4 » Aug 10 2017 06:44

Volley Fire: Models in <SEPT> units within 6" of any friendly <SEPT> Cadre Fireblades may fire an extra shot with pulse pistols, pulse carbines and pulse rifles when shooting at a target within half the weapon's range


Wrongfully assumed since it had the base they would count.

I see them as two separate entries in the weapon list now :(

That weakens the concept :?

Can sniper teams & marksmen enter Devilfish?

User avatar
Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 322

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#5 » Aug 11 2017 07:30

PuppetMaster wrote:
Can sniper teams & marksmen enter Devilfish?


Yes but WHY? The marksman is a character and is well defended that way. The drones are -1 to hit unless they are the closest model. Again decently defended. Why put them in a fish?

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1507

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#6 » Aug 11 2017 09:05

PuppetMaster wrote:Introduction:
I played 40k briefly baby size 2004. A lot has happened since then! I just got drawn back to the money black hole by new friends now fighting for the greater good! I am presently building a new list where I will work my way up to 1000 points that is the local reference.

Goal:
I don’t envision the list winning any tournaments. It is to be fun! My first real army. That said, losing horribly is not fun :( I am envisioning a tau purist special forces style and feel! I want a slightly different feel and playstyle to it than mass mech that all friends except being on the way. Ideally none. Taking less physical space and a painting and look I prefer.


Welcome back to the game! As I'm sure you've noticed, lots has changed with the game! I'll be glad to help walk you through some list-building for 8th Edition! First, let's look at your list and your preferred tactics!

PuppetMaster wrote:Method and thoughts:
The units I am looking at are Shadowsun, fireblade, fire warriors, pathfinders, stealths, and sniper teams. As I expand beyond 1000 ghostkeel and devilfish are pondered.
I envision a big sniper team (6-9) with two+ spotters and a Fireblade for extra shots effectively doubling output. This seems the best way to run them. I feel as there could be some (tier 2..) synergy within but I am fresh new to the game.

I envision, maybe incorrectly, mobile stealth teams deepstriking with Shadowsun to run fear into the backline and hunt tank/mech backsides and the sniper team/s in cover with as large line of sight as possible and the pathfinders painting targets and fire warriors as breachers. Forcing the enemy to commit to one side. Giving either the backline or frontline value. The reinforced pathfinder squad I am unsure about but they reroll 1s with 1 markerlight so seems interesting. This plays more into the special forces feel and I’ve heard some testing them that their opponents felt breachers & upgraded PF were scary when within reach. No devilfish presently, so expensive in points. Nearly no drones on the list, unsure about that, don’t mind drones at all, happily take a full drone squad in place of FW for aesthetics, looks good on mathahmmer? Thought about changing a FW team out for them.


Sorry if this comes across as negative, but let's clear up a few things about the rules! First, there isn't any synergy between a Fireblade and Sniper Drones, so it's better to keep the Fireblade up with Strike Teams instead. Second, neither Shadowsun nor Stealthsuits can deep strike (called Manta Strike now) so that tactic sadly isn't possible. Lastly, this is more about the meta but Drones are one of the best things in our new Index! Definitely fit them in, at least as a defensive unit.

Let's take a look at your questions too.

PuppetMaster wrote:Quad commander 4x fusion, too good to pass up? Some say Shadowsun in 8th is unusable, others soso or ok.
Only breachers & drone team?
Devilfish must then? Objectives will be hard?
Remove pathfinder team for dual full XV25?
Devilfish? Charge. Prefer no mech no veichles at 1000 mark. Movement objective breachers. Synergy with breachers/fusion PF. Tactical cover. Charge.
Been toying with the idea as linked below having single firesight marksman for sustained markerlight. Don’t see it though with the points and units.
No drones presently to soak wounds :(


First off, yes, the 4x Fusion Blaster Commander is devastatingly powerful. Cheaper than Shadowsun, packs twice the firepower, is more durable, can deep strike... there's no comparison really. The 4x Fusion Blaster Commander is the final word in close-range anti-tank firepower. Second, Devilfish are only a must if you're using Breachers- they have a short range, and need Devilfish to get them up close and personal with their targets.

Also, what do you mean by "fusion PF" and "sustained Markerlight"? I'm not familiar with those terms.

Anyway, let's talk lists! The first and most important thing is, the way you pay for units is very different now in 8th Edition. You're under-paying for many units in your list, so your army is closer to 1100 points or more, sadly. With that in mind, let's get right into it. Here's the simple checklist for list-building in any edition really:

1. Make sure you units that can perform each of these three roles:
- Anti-infantry
- Anti-tank
- Anti-elite

2. It's okay to have one unit perform different roles, but it's better to have units with dedicated roles. As a simple rule of thumb, have versatile units at 1000pts and below, and dedicated units above 1000pts

3. Make sure you have units that can both hold objectives, and units that can take objectives

So, with these rules in mind, let's look at your list! Your list has 10 squads. 9 of them are anti-infantry, and 1 is anti-tank. You'll do great against hordes of Tyranids or Orks, but one Leman Russ could stomp your army with nothing to stop it! So, let's drop everything but the core units, and see what we have:

Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons (90)

Here's 250 points of infantry. Solid long-range options, and some nice skirmishing capacity too with the Stealthsuits. Let's add a little more support before we add anything else though, just to be safe.

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)

Now we're at 332 with a great core. But we're sorely missing anti-tank firepower! And in 8th Edition, to bring down tanks, monsters, and Lords of War, you're going to need a lot- even at 1000 points! We three good options, essentially- two variants of Commanders, and Longstrike of course too. First let's get those Commanders in- they're fantastic anti-tank units that can pull double-duty as anti-elite if need be.

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Advanced Targeting System (156)

With these added we have some nice anti-tank capacity. The list currently stands at 664 points. Let's add a few more Drones to help guard our Fire Warriors, and some extra Pathfinders too- those Rail Rifles are excellent at killing Primaris Marines and other heavy infantry units.

Fast Attack - +3x Pathfinders w/ 3x Rail Rifles (+81)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)

Now we're at a nice 809 points, and we have some great units. A simple long-range defensive gunline (Fire Warriors, Fireblade, Gun Drones), some skirmish/alpha-strike units (Stealthsuits, 4x Fusion Blaster Commander), and some supporting fire units (Pathfinders, 3x Missile Pod Commander). With the last 191 points, we'd like something that can take on both elite units and light tanks, which are still your army's weakness.

Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, Advanced Targeting System, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)

The Ghostkeel isn't a top-tier competitive unit, but as long as you aren't going to serious tournaments it should be an excellent addition to your army, and will have an especially outsized impact in 1000pt games. And, with those last 10 points, let's give one Stealthsuit a Shield Generator and your Fire Warrior Shas'ui some Markerlights. Let's look at the final list!

-

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Advanced Targeting System (156)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors, 1x Markerlight (83)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors, 1x Markerlight (83)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Shield Generator (95)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, Advanced Targeting System, Target Lock; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (121)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)

Total: 1001 - Command Points: 4 (1 Patrol Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

What do you think?

PuppetMaster
Shas
Posts: 19

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#7 » Aug 16 2017 01:12

Gotten the first package today :) Nothing that will not always be present in any army and lots of toys. Read up some on the codex.

So there seem to be agreement the special forces is a no-go :(
The question then would shift to, how insane could one make a 1000 point list? Still somewhat set on a purist list. Found forge world and mods that make the suits bearable to me :roll:

Thank you for the replies and time taken to help this resurging newcomer!
Looked at the list and reasoning Arka0415 with a few questions.

As I've understood it one wants larger squads of drones? Nothing against drones of any kind.

Reasoning for the railguns on the pathfinders? Most suggestions I've read focus on the less expensive ion rifle.

How exactly do commanders work in their slot, as I understand it from the codex you can only have one of them fill a HQ choice but I've seen lists filled with them? Could I have the "4" HQ choices like below similar to other lists I've seen? As I understand it another commander would be superior to the ghostkeel. Would this list fare better or worse and can it be tweaked further?

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (remove or a commander?) (42)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Advanced Targeting System (156)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors, 1x Markerlight (83)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors, 1x Markerlight (83)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Shield Generator (95)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (121)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)

996 points

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 322

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#8 » Aug 16 2017 08:06

PuppetMaster wrote:Gotten the first package today :) Nothing that will not always be present in any army and lots of toys. Read up some on the codex.

So there seem to be agreement the special forces is a no-go :(
The question then would shift to, how insane could one make a 1000 point list? Still somewhat set on a purist list. Found forge world and mods that make the suits bearable to me :roll:

Thank you for the replies and time taken to help this resurging newcomer!
Looked at the list and reasoning Arka0415 with a few questions.

As I've understood it one wants larger squads of drones? Nothing against drones of any kind.

Reasoning for the railguns on the pathfinders? Most suggestions I've read focus on the less expensive ion rifle.

How exactly do commanders work in their slot, as I understand it from the codex you can only have one of them fill a HQ choice but I've seen lists filled with them? Could I have the "4" HQ choices like below similar to other lists I've seen? As I understand it another commander would be superior to the ghostkeel. Would this list fare better or worse and can it be tweaked further?

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (remove or a commander?) (42)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Advanced Targeting System (156)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors, 1x Markerlight (83)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors, 1x Markerlight (83)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Shield Generator (95)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (121)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)
Fast Attack - 4x Gun Drones (32)

996 points


This list would be fine and you'd take a supreme command detachment and an outrider detachment. The commander would be far more accurate and deals more damage than the ghostkeel but he is more fragile. The keel is -1 to hit from over 12" and another -1 to hit if the drones are within 3" of it from any shooting distance with an extra toughness which only matters if your opponent is shooting with str 5 or 6 weapons. However, the commander can hide behind other units and deepstrike to guarantee an alpha strike of some effectiveness. The choice is yours but most people would go with the cheaper more alpha option of commander.

PuppetMaster
Shas
Posts: 19

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#9 » Sep 22 2017 01:18

Gotten nearly everything, 1 commander, 1 fire warrior box & 2 gun drones short. A few small last minute changes. First game in great many years drawing near :)

I have learnt I hate painting fire warriors! :(

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Advanced Targeting System (156)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors, 1x Markerlight (43)
Troops - 5x Fire Warriors, 1x Markerlight (43)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Shield Generator (98)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (121)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)

903 points (97 points to play with by my count)


Ideally I'd like to fill this list back up to 1000 without adding and having to paint another 10 fire warriors.
I am thinking stealth suits, gun drones or pathfinders as fillers. This change would not be too bad or should I suck it up and get the box?

I was considering:
#1 Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Shield Generator (98) for either an extra team or upping squad size? Total value 993 or 1001
#2 Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40) + upping stealth suits squad size to 5 (60) for a total list value of 1003. Can I remove a marker light from a pathfinder to land on 1000?
#3 2 x Fast Attack squads of 6x Gun Drones (48) = 96 = 999 points (would this be a legal setup with 4 fast attacks?)
#4 Something else ;)

Thoughts?

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1507

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#10 » Sep 23 2017 01:49

If you're bringing a Cadre Fireblade, you need more than 10 models worth of Pulse weapons. So in this case, run those 6 Gun Drones with the Fireblade and his Fire Warriors, and that would be a decent formation. For the time being, give the Stealthsuits a Homing Beacon (+20), combine the Fire Warrior squads and lose a Markerlight (-3), and add 10x more Gun Drones, bringing you to 2x8. Here's what the list would look like:

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Advanced Targeting System (156)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors, 1x Markerlight (83)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Shield Generator; Homing Beacon (118)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (121)
Fast Attack - 8x Gun Drones (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Gun Drones (64)

Total: 1000 - Command Points: 5 (1 Supreme Command Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

What do you think?

PuppetMaster
Shas
Posts: 19

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#11 » Sep 23 2017 04:58

First response I really liked it! :) I have done som reading on drones since posting. I like the drone models so it is a direction I am A ok with.

http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26549&p=335204&hilit=drone+size#p335204
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/07/40k-gun-drones-and-you.html

The tau thread about ideal drone size seem to slightly favour squads of 6 over 8 slightly although both being strong and as I read it there is a very very strong synergy with a drone controller adding to rolls. Being so long since and small point wise, think of the coming as my first game so not an argument from experience. My understanding, perhaps wrong, is that a homing beacon allows more exact manta striking, desirable if you have close weapons like flamethrowers on a crisis team? Lacking that drone controller would be a better fit?

Which leads me to why would I take a shield generator as the save is one higher than the stealth suits basic save? Seems better to add a drone or pathfinder?

Is my reasoning logical or backwards?

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Advanced Targeting System (156)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors, 1x Markerlight (83)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, shield generator; drone controller (103)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (113)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)

Total points: 1001
Last edited by PuppetMaster on Sep 24 2017 06:07, edited 1 time in total.

PuppetMaster
Shas
Posts: 19

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#12 » Sep 23 2017 07:37

Double post, how do I remove this?
Last edited by PuppetMaster on Sep 24 2017 06:08, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Froglift
Shas'Saal
Posts: 83

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#13 » Sep 23 2017 08:16

I sooooo wish we could do special forces but I feel the only guys we can do that with are Commanders, and nobody will like you for bringing 7 commanders.

I just did a game today (500) and sticking a Commander with missile pods and a Drone controller inside a group of 18 drones with a Cadre Fireblade had me make 108 shots on a BS of 4+. Plus the option for Mont'ka/ Kayoun. The Character Rule would prevent them from shooting at your Commander Allowing a little more survivability.

What are you planning for each unit? Are you keeping your Fireblade with the drones or the 10 Fire warriors?

What are your tactics for this list?
We are men of action, lies do not become us.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1507

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#14 » Sep 24 2017 09:10

PuppetMaster wrote:The tau thread about ideal drone size seem to slightly favour squads of 6 over 8 slightly although both being strong and as I read it there is a very very strong synergy with a drone controller adding to rolls.

Both are good picks- feel free to use either!

PuppetMaster wrote:My understanding, perhaps wrong, is that a homing beacon allows more exact manta striking, desirable if you have close weapons like flamethrowers on a crisis team? Lacking that drone controller would be a better fit?

The Homing Beacon is great in your army- aggressively infiltrate the Stealthsuits near the opponent's army, then use the Homing Beacon to drop a Fusion Commander close to one of their big tanks. In a list with Stealthsuits and two Fusion Commanders, it's a great pick.

PuppetMaster wrote:Which leads me to why would I take a shield generator as the save is one higher than the stealth suits basic save? Seems better to add a drone or pathfinder?

The list had a few points left over and I figured it couldn't hurt to add. It's a cheap investment that can help keep your Stealthsuits on the field longer, and by extension increase the liklihood of a Homing Beacon drop. But really, it's just preference.

PuppetMaster wrote:HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Advanced Targeting System (156)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors, 1x Markerlight (83)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, shield generator; drone controller (103)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (113)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)

Total points: 1001

This is a good list too! Just remember, the Stealthsuits will need to stay close to the Drones to buff them with the Drone Controller. Just be careful about that. Also, since you don't have the Homing Beacon anymore, feel free to drop the Shield Generator and add another Pathfinder. Here's my insignificantly-different list:

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HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, Advanced Targeting System (156)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors, 1x Markerlight (83)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Drone Controller (95)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (121)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)

Total: 1001 - Command Points: 5 (1 Supreme Command Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

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What do you think?

PuppetMaster
Shas
Posts: 19

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#15 » Sep 24 2017 03:18

Many thanks all around for the help and feedback :) I feel like this is the list I'll go for my "first" game :) I'll get a few games under my belt and learn from my misstakes and see what I feel like need to change for larger games. I feel l have something for everything with a good starting point.

When would a shield generator and the save roll be used instead of the regular one?

I have read the codex but am a bit lost how the homing beacon is working. As it needs to be placed right next to them there seem to be little flexibility. How does infiltrate work?

User avatar
Froglift
Shas'Saal
Posts: 83

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#16 » Sep 24 2017 06:24

PuppetMaster wrote:Many thanks all around for the help and feedback :) I feel like this is the list I'll go for my "first" game :) I'll get a few games under my belt and learn from my misstakes and see what I feel like need to change for larger games. I feel l have something for everything with a good starting point.

When would a shield generator and the save roll be used instead of the regular one?

I have read the codex but am a bit lost how the homing beacon is working. As it needs to be placed right next to them there seem to be little flexibility. How does infiltrate work?


If the AP of the enemy weapon cancels out your normal armor save or makes it so your normal save is above your Shield Generator save, then use the Shield generator. The Shield Generator conveys an Invulnerable Save which is not affected by AP.

Say someone shoots at your Commander with a AP -4 weapon, your Commander's save is now a 7+ which is impossible. Your Commander is equipped with a Shield Generator. You can opt to forgo your Armor save and use the 4+ Shield Gen save instead.

Likewise, say someone shoots at your Commander with a AP -2 weapon making your Commander take a 5+ save, you can opt to forgo that and use the 4+ of the Shield Gen instead.

You can use Armor or the Shield Gen but never both at the same time.

Shield Gens will not save against Mortal Wounds.

(Note: Shield Drones have an ability that allows them to use their 4+ armor save AND use a 5+ check to ignore the wound(INCLUDING MORTAL WOUNDS) altogether!)

On Infiltration and Homing beacons, basically when you set up your Stealth suits you can put them anywhere on the board that is not in your enemy's deployment zone and is more than 12" from an enemy unit.

Depending if you go first or if your Stealth suits can survive the first round, you can then move them realllllly close to the enemy (or in effective range) and deploy the beacon 1" away which allows your Manta Strikers to deploy within 6" of the beacon REGARDLESS of any nearby enemies.

For Instance, I have a Stealth Team move up 4" away from an enemy Rhino/Land Raider / Tank. I can then place a Homing beacon 1" away from my Stealth Team. At the end of the movement phase I can then Manta Strike a Quad-Fusion Commander 6" around the beacon allowing it to be 2-9" away from the Tank allowing it to use the Fusion Rule of picking the highest of 2 D6 Damage dice.

So essentially you do the Mario jump on their heads :P
We are men of action, lies do not become us.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1507

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#17 » Sep 24 2017 06:48

PuppetMaster wrote:I have read the codex but am a bit lost how the homing beacon is working. As it needs to be placed right next to them there seem to be little flexibility. How does infiltrate work?


Froglift wrote:On Infiltration and Homing beacons, basically when you set up your Stealth suits you can put them anywhere on the board that is not in your enemy's deployment zone and is more than 12" from an enemy unit.

Depending if you go first or if your Stealth suits can survive the first round, you can then move them realllllly close to the enemy (or in effective range) and deploy the beacon 1" away which allows your Manta Strikers to deploy within 6" of the beacon REGARDLESS of any nearby enemies.


Just like Froglift explained- first, move the Stealthsuits up to 8" (+D6" if you advance), then place the Beacon up to 2" away from them, then use Manta Strike to place an XV8 unit or Commander within 6" of that Homing Beacon. In total, you get 16+D6" of range to use Manta Strik! It's actually a ton of range.

User avatar
Froglift
Shas'Saal
Posts: 83

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#18 » Sep 28 2017 08:32

You know if you really wanted to do a Special Forces theme you could look into a small army of Tempestus Scions. Deepstrike + small man groups + special weapons teams scream Special Forces. I'm not trying to push you away from Tau, I love these little bluegills, It's just they aren't really specialized for special forces. Just a thought if you wanted to pick up a small second army.
We are men of action, lies do not become us.

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