First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Discuss and develop your army list amongst new players and veterans alike.
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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3104

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#19 » Sep 28 2017 10:31

The only kind of special forces T'au I can imagine is a mix of Stealth Suits, Crisis Suits/Broadsides and Special weapon Pathfinder. Basically a Battlesuit list without the really big guns.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1539

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#20 » Sep 29 2017 03:16

Froglift wrote:You know if you really wanted to do a Special Forces theme you could look into a small army of Tempestus Scions. Deepstrike + small man groups + special weapons teams scream Special Forces. I'm not trying to push you away from Tau, I love these little bluegills, It's just they aren't really specialized for special forces. Just a thought if you wanted to pick up a small second army.


Panzer wrote:The only kind of special forces T'au I can imagine is a mix of Stealth Suits, Crisis Suits/Broadsides and Special weapon Pathfinder. Basically a Battlesuit list without the really big guns.


I don't think the "special forces" theme is that necessary here- in PuppetMaster's original post, they were just discussing making a fun Tau list without using tons of mech, that's all.

PuppetMaster
Shas
Posts: 19

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#21 » Sep 29 2017 02:56

I appreciate the sentiment but it is less about a hard special forces list and more about a purist tau list with models and theme I liked and could accept ;)

I was torn between tyranids, chaos or tau. Tau being first pick and only backstory I liked. Not too many models I liked and the special forces theme had small models easy to transport, that I liked the looks and theme of. If I pick up a second army it'll be a tyranid for painting their larger models.

All models ordered and first game coming up in roughly two weeks from now. Will experiment with/without homing beacon.
Many thanks for all input :)
Will report how it played out.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#22 » Sep 30 2017 02:33

Imo T'au has a TON of list concepts that work decently one could follow.
I for one mainly follow a Recon force concept which includes a lot Pathfinder, Stealth Suits and Ghostkeels lead by a Coldstar (even in 7th) and try to avoid really heavy weaponry like Hammerheads, Riptides and Stormsurges. The heavy hitter there are a unit of Breacher in a Devilfish and a HRR Broadside for some long range duty. Occasionally a unit of Flamer Crisis with Shield Drones (really love them if I'm honest).

However there are the concepts of a tank heavy list, a mechanized list, a Crisis heavy list, a big suit heavy list, a infantry spam list with tons of firewarrior and Gun Drones, or the classic and most fluffy: a mixed list with a little bit of everything (kinda hard to do these days because Suits are so incredibly expensive).

The thing with special forces is, it usually means a small number of models all with above average abilities. T'au footsoldiers are the backbone of their army, the ones who can achieve great things by being many on the battlefield. The really good T'au soldiers usually all are wearing battlesutis which also are a lot more expensive and thus reduce the model count in your army. So basically if one would really want a special forces T'au list for more than 250 points it would be mainly about Battlesuits since that one fulfills all criteria in-game and in-fluff.

Newtauplayer2016
Shas
Posts: 16

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#23 » Oct 09 2017 09:02

Hey PuppetMaster,

Welcome back!

Several have told you to replace Shadowsun for the Commander, so I thought I would chime in a few notes on why Shadowsun can be good.

Shadowsun
- Can infiltrate (deploy anywhere on the field that is not the oppononents deploy area, and a minimum of 12" away from an enemy unit)
- Opponent subtract 1 from to-hit (both shooting and close combat)
- Can call a second Kauyon (normally a once per battle buff, but Shadowsun can call it a second time as well)
- Comes with 5+ invul save
- Keyword Infantry

Commander
- Has only one more toughness and 1 more wound
- Can only manta strike (deep strike), not infiltrate
- Can call Kauyon or Montka but only once
- Can be equipped with 4 customizable items (weapons or support systems)
- Not keyword Infantry


Shadowsun with Ghostkeel and Stealthsuits can be very fun to play. With aggressive deployment and good use of stealth, they can tear away heavily armored units and take control of the table early.

Commander-spam is... boring. And cheesy.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1539

Re: First 1000 point list - Special forces theme. How good can it get? :)

Post#24 » Oct 09 2017 10:21

Newtauplayer2016 wrote:Commander-spam is... boring. And cheesy.

You're right that Commander spam is boring and cheesy. However, Shadowsun has several flaws that make her, ultimately, just not that good as a character, I think.

First, for durability, T4 is much worse than T5- it's essentially impossible to get 2+ to wound against T5 except in the rarest of cases, while T8 and T9 are incredibly common. So, we see that Shadowsun is harder to hit and easier to wound, and with one fewer wound, she's just not as durable as a Commander. In fact, just doing the math shows that

Second, she costs about as much as a Commander (w/o Drones) yet has half the firepower. No need to explain further here.

Third, you're paying points for abilities of dubious quality. Her Command-Link Drone is practically worthless, Defenders of the Greater Good is highly situational, it's unlikely you'll ever want to use Genius of Kauyon (as Shadowsun always wants to keep mobile), and her 5++ save seems like a mediocre trait since, if the opponent has the opportunity to target her, she's probably dead.

With this in mind, Shadowsun is definitely a cool, fluffy character- however, her low-impact weapon loadout, comparatively high points cost, and suite of relatively useless abilities makes her a mid-tier character at best, I think.

It's a shame, really- the Tau Empire's top two characters, Shadowsun and Farsight, are relegated to middling budget choices when other factions get access to 400+ point combat monsters. :?

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