Help Wanted - 1000pts vs. Necrons

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Sa'cea B'an'ter
Shas
Posts: 5

Help Wanted - 1000pts vs. Necrons

Post#1 » Aug 13 2017 03:02

So, I've been into T'au since I picked up the game almost a year ago, playing almost always against a friend's Deathwatch army on a weekly basis, things were so-so, win some lose some.
When 8th rolled around said friend switched to Necrons, and I've lost all traction since, the only victory to my name being a tipsy casual 500pt game late one night at my place :dead:

Here's where y'all come in, I need your help whipping what I have into a capable fighting force :fear:
Here's the full roster -

Cadre Fireblade x 1
Ethereal on Hover Drone x 2
Fire Warrior [Pulse Rifle] x 52
Fire Warrior [Pulse Blaster] x 20
Pathfinders [Pulse Carbine + Markerlight] x 5 (Metal)
Pathfinders [Rail Rifle] x 3 (Metal)
DS8 Tactical Support Turret x 5
Drones [Any loadout excluding Pathfinder options] x 27
XV-8 Crisis Suits [Any loadout] x 6

I usually run massed Fire Warriors [Five per squad] backed by Cadre Fireblade, who I set up in a gunline fashion (holding a rear line, with support from the Pathfinders).
Most of my points I sink into the Crisis Teams, who I hold back for a turn or two until the enemy is about mid-board, landing the Crisis Teams in cover maxed out with drone support.
I'll change things up with this approach as needed on a game to game basis, running Breachers on high-cover maps and Strike Teams on open terrain etc.

Any help is greatly appreciated! :)
"I highlight your weakness with MARKERLIGHT."

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1132

Re: Help Wanted - 1000pts vs. Necrons

Post#2 » Aug 13 2017 06:01

Sa'cea B'an'ter wrote:So, I've been into T'au since I picked up the game almost a year ago, playing almost always against a friend's Deathwatch army on a weekly basis, things were so-so, win some lose some.
When 8th rolled around said friend switched to Necrons, and I've lost all traction since, the only victory to my name being a tipsy casual 500pt game late one night at my place :dead:

Here's where y'all come in, I need your help whipping what I have into a capable fighting force :fear:
Here's the full roster -

Cadre Fireblade x 1
Ethereal on Hover Drone x 2
Fire Warrior [Pulse Rifle] x 52
Fire Warrior [Pulse Blaster] x 20
Pathfinders [Pulse Carbine + Markerlight] x 5 (Metal)
Pathfinders [Rail Rifle] x 3 (Metal)
DS8 Tactical Support Turret x 5
Drones [Any loadout excluding Pathfinder options] x 27
XV-8 Crisis Suits [Any loadout] x 6

I usually run massed Fire Warriors [Five per squad] backed by Cadre Fireblade, who I set up in a gunline fashion (holding a rear line, with support from the Pathfinders).
Most of my points I sink into the Crisis Teams, who I hold back for a turn or two until the enemy is about mid-board, landing the Crisis Teams in cover maxed out with drone support.
I'll change things up with this approach as needed on a game to game basis, running Breachers on high-cover maps and Strike Teams on open terrain etc.

Any help is greatly appreciated! :)


I'd love to help out!

Do you mind posting a more precise list? Depending on the upgrades you normally take the army would be very different. And, would I be correct that you're bringing 72 Fire Warriors? Also, how many points are your games usually?

Here is some advice for playing Necrons.

1. Focus fire. This is THE #1 rule when playing Necrons. It doesn't matter if there are multiple scary units, or if one of your squads could be more efficient shooting a different target... shoot their troops and tanks 'til they're dead. Necrons can come back, but not if their squad is wiped. If it takes a Railgun to kill that last Necron Warrior, do it.

2. Don't hold back. Manta Strike on turn one if you can, aggressively move your Fire Warriors, and take risks to secure full squad kills. Necrons are immensely points-efficient. Get the most out of your squads- if you don't, you'll just lose to attrition.

3. Target the recipients of buffs. Don't bother trying to snipe characters, instead just hose the units those characters are buffing. The same advice works against Space Marines.

4. Refuse a flank if possible. Get as much force as you can targeting as little of the enemy as possible. If you can focus fire on one flank, while starving the enemy fir rapid-fire shots (or better yet, forcing them to advance), you'll have a much better chance of winning.

5. Don't be tricked by Quantum Shielding. Be very, very careful when targeting Necron light vehicles with D6 damage guns. The chance the damage will stick is very low.

Lastly, just one thing- it may be better to make a take-all-comers list, rather than changing the army every game. It'll be easier to learn, and will be more fair for your opponents.

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Sa'cea B'an'ter
Shas
Posts: 5

Re: Help Wanted - 1000pts vs. Necrons

Post#3 » Aug 13 2017 08:33

Arka0415 wrote:I'd love to help out!

Do you mind posting a more precise list? Depending on the upgrades you normally take the army would be very different. And, would I be correct that you're bringing 72 Fire Warriors? Also, how many points are your games usually?

Here is some advice for playing Necrons.

1. Focus fire. This is THE #1 rule when playing Necrons. It doesn't matter if there are multiple scary units, or if one of your squads could be more efficient shooting a different target... shoot their troops and tanks 'til they're dead. Necrons can come back, but not if their squad is wiped. If it takes a Railgun to kill that last Necron Warrior, do it.

2. Don't hold back. Manta Strike on turn one if you can, aggressively move your Fire Warriors, and take risks to secure full squad kills. Necrons are immensely points-efficient. Get the most out of your squads- if you don't, you'll just lose to attrition.

3. Target the recipients of buffs. Don't bother trying to snipe characters, instead just hose the units those characters are buffing. The same advice works against Space Marines.

4. Refuse a flank if possible. Get as much force as you can targeting as little of the enemy as possible. If you can focus fire on one flank, while starving the enemy fir rapid-fire shots (or better yet, forcing them to advance), you'll have a much better chance of winning.

5. Don't be tricked by Quantum Shielding. Be very, very careful when targeting Necron light vehicles with D6 damage guns. The chance the damage will stick is very low.

Lastly, just one thing- it may be better to make a take-all-comers list, rather than changing the army every game. It'll be easier to learn, and will be more fair for your opponents.


Thanks for the reply!

The roster above isn't an army list so much as it is all the forces I have at my disposal, although fielding 72 Fire Warriors at a time can only bring pure joy and numb hands :P
We mostly play 1000pt lists, 2000pts if we're feeling adventurous.

In my last game against 'Cron I played the following list (borrowing the Commander from a friend for the match) -

1000pt Tactical Objectives Game

HQ
Cadre Fireblade [Markerlight] - 42
XV-85 Commander [CIB x 3, Multi-tracker] - 128
-Shield Drone - 8
-Shield Drone - 8
ELITES
XV-8 Crisis Team 1
Shas'vre [FB x 2, Multi-tracker] - 86
-Gun Drone - 8
-Shield Drone - 8
Shas'ui [Plasma Rifle x 2, ATS] - 72
-Gun Drone - 8
-Gun Drone - 8
Shas'ui [Plasma Rifle x 2, ATS] - 72
-Gun Drone - 8
-Marker Drone - 10
XV-8 Crisis Team 2
Shas'vre [FB x 2, Multi-tracker] - 86
-Shield Drone - 8
-Gun Drone - 8
Shas'ui [Flamer x 2, ATS] - 68
-Marker Drone - 10
-Marker Drone - 10
Shas'ui [Flamer x 2, Drone Controller] - 65
-Marker Drone - 10
-Gun Drone - 8
FAST ATTACK
Pathfinders (8 bodies) [Markerlights x 5, Rail Rifles x 3] - 106
TROOPS
Strike Team 1 (6 bodies) [Markerlight] - 43
Strike team 2 (6 bodies) [Markerlight] - 43
Strike Team 3 (6 bodies) [Markerlight] - 43

TOTAL - 974pts - Battalion Detachment
Realised that I'd shortchanged myself by mistake now that I recalculate :-?

Necrons brought (roughly) two squads of Warriors, 1-2 squads of Destroyers, 1 squad of Heavy Destroyers, 1 squad of Deathmarks, Nightbringer, Cryptek and Orikan the Diviner (who managed to become Empowered turn 2).
"I highlight your weakness with MARKERLIGHT."

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Sa'cea Mont'yr
Shas'El
Posts: 1286
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Re: Help Wanted - 1000pts vs. Necrons

Post#4 » Aug 13 2017 09:53

Following this topic for two reasons: you're from Sa'cea, and my girlfriend is about to start a Necron army. :D

Anyways, from my brief read-through of the Index, they seem to be very much built around an 18-24" shooting range, with a few long range units to take out the opponents opposing big guns. Necron basic infantry are almost as bad as we are in melee, and their specialized units tend to be good against only one thing. You can use this to your advantage because we have several very fast units that are exemplary at moving quickly across the field and surviving in close combat against non-specialized troops. Piranhas, Coldstars, and Devilfish are all good units to the up enemies in melee until you have a shooting unit in position, and then they can call back and start the process again.
Shas'el Sa'cea Cal'Ka Mon'tyr

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1132

Re: Help Wanted - 1000pts vs. Necrons

Post#5 » Aug 13 2017 11:25

Sa'cea B'an'ter wrote:Thanks for the reply!

The roster above isn't an army list so much as it is all the forces I have at my disposal, although fielding 72 Fire Warriors at a time can only bring pure joy and numb hands :P
We mostly play 1000pt lists, 2000pts if we're feeling adventurous.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense! I was trying to imagine 70+ Fire Warriors in all 5-man teams! :D

Anyway, it looks like your opponent is running a pretty wacky list, but ultimately par for the course for Necrons. The real threat is the Warriors, since they're immensely durable unless you focus fire, and the Deathmarks if they get a good deep strike. However, to be sportsmanlike we shouldn't tailor the list against that one, but make the most effective list we can while keeping in mind that you often fight Deathwatch and Necrons- armies that don't bring huge infantry hordes, or Psykers, or terribly exotic units. Let's see what we can do with the models you have!

The first thing to keep in mind is that you don't have any tanks, so your anti-tank options will be pretty limited. Let's write some in first.

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters (160)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 3x Rail Rifles (121)

There's 453 points, and sadly that's the core of your list. Fast how it all stacks up! Let's add a solid infantry contingent too.

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)

Now we're at 655, with a decent gunline and a supporting character. With the remaining 345 points, we can fit in some XV8s, and some more Fire Warriors if you're interested too.

Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)

With that, we have a simple and effective list that has a light backfield presence while the main 'work' is done by the Commanders and XV8s. If you don't like running Commander spam though, I'd be happy to write up a different kind of list! Here's the current version:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters (160)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 3x Rail Rifles (121)

Total: 994 - Command Points: 6 (1 Battalion Detachment)

-

What do you think?

By the way, a few tips for listbuilding:

Sa'cea B'an'ter wrote:In my last game against 'Cron I played the following list (borrowing the Commander from a friend for the match) -

1000pt Tactical Objectives Game

HQ
Cadre Fireblade [Markerlight] - 42
XV-85 Commander [CIB x 3, Multi-tracker] - 128
-Shield Drone - 8
-Shield Drone - 8
ELITES
XV-8 Crisis Team 1
Shas'vre [FB x 2, Multi-tracker] - 86
-Gun Drone - 8
-Shield Drone - 8
Shas'ui [Plasma Rifle x 2, ATS] - 72
-Gun Drone - 8
-Gun Drone - 8
Shas'ui [Plasma Rifle x 2, ATS] - 72
-Gun Drone - 8
-Marker Drone - 10
XV-8 Crisis Team 2
Shas'vre [FB x 2, Multi-tracker] - 86
-Shield Drone - 8
-Gun Drone - 8
Shas'ui [Flamer x 2, ATS] - 68
-Marker Drone - 10
-Marker Drone - 10
Shas'ui [Flamer x 2, Drone Controller] - 65
-Marker Drone - 10
-Gun Drone - 8
FAST ATTACK
Pathfinders (8 bodies) [Markerlights x 5, Rail Rifles x 3] - 106
TROOPS
Strike Team 1 (6 bodies) [Markerlight] - 43
Strike team 2 (6 bodies) [Markerlight] - 43
Strike Team 3 (6 bodies) [Markerlight] - 43

TOTAL - 974pts - Battalion Detachment


First, try to clearly designate what squads are trying to do. Those XV8 teams seem like they have very varied loadouts- are they trying to Manta Strike and use Fusion Blasters? Or race up to infantry to use Flamers? With so many different short-ranged guns, it will be different to be in range of every intended target at once. Also, remember- the Multi-Tracker is a very inefficient piece of wargear- we can happily get re-rolling ones with our Markerlights, and use the battlesuit hardpoint to buy a more guns! We need to get the most 'bang for our buck' and make that high base cost for battlesuits do as much work as possible.

User avatar
Sa'cea B'an'ter
Shas
Posts: 5

Re: Help Wanted - 1000pts vs. Necrons

Post#6 » Aug 14 2017 01:09

Arka0415 wrote:HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters (160)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Troops - 8x Fire Warriors (64)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 3x Rail Rifles (121)

Total: 994 - Command Points: 6 (1 Battalion Detachment)

-

What do you think?


Thank you! :)
I'm cool with whatever works best, and Commander spam looks to be the way to go about it until out 'dex comes around (plus I s'pose I can just tweak it around depending on the situation).


Arka0415 wrote:First, try to clearly designate what squads are trying to do. Those XV8 teams seem like they have very varied loadouts- are they trying to Manta Strike and use Fusion Blasters? Or race up to infantry to use Flamers? With so many different short-ranged guns, it will be different to be in range of every intended target at once. Also, remember- the Multi-Tracker is a very inefficient piece of wargear- we can happily get re-rolling ones with our Markerlights, and use the battlesuit hardpoint to buy a more guns! We need to get the most 'bang for our buck' and make that high base cost for battlesuits do as much work as possible.


Reading back over it I do agree my Crisis squads were a mess! :D
I had intended to Manta Strike the lot of them behind the enemy army, using the DC to maximise the drone potential before closing in with flamers. All taking a sharp dive south when he counter-deployed his Deathmarks in the same turn and wiped my drones with an excellent round of shooting, followed immediately in his turn with concentrated fire and Nightbringer melee.
Bad times ensued :dead:

It was close overall though, he had more kill points but I'd poured my efforts into securing Tactical Objectives. 19 to 21 his way.

I'm really lookin' forward to trying out this list. Thanks again!
(I'll post the results in a few days after the match.)
"I highlight your weakness with MARKERLIGHT."

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1132

Re: Help Wanted - 1000pts vs. Necrons

Post#7 » Aug 14 2017 01:35

Sa'cea B'an'ter wrote:Thank you! :)
I'm cool with whatever works best, and Commander spam looks to be the way to go about it until out 'dex comes around (plus I s'pose I can just tweak it around depending on the situation).

Frankly, I don't really know what works best, but given your current meta (Deathwatch and Necrons) going a bit more anti-elite wouldn't hurt. CIBs, Missile Pods, maybe even Vespids.


Sa'cea B'an'ter wrote:Reading back over it I do agree my Crisis squads were a mess! :D
I had intended to Manta Strike the lot of them behind the enemy army, using the DC to maximise the drone potential before closing in with flamers. All taking a sharp dive south when he counter-deployed his Deathmarks in the same turn and wiped my drones with an excellent round of shooting, followed immediately in his turn with concentrated fire and Nightbringer melee.
Bad times ensued :dead:

It was close overall though, he had more kill points but I'd poured my efforts into securing Tactical Objectives. 19 to 21 his way.

Sounds like it was a good game! About the timing for Manta Strike- players who were around during 7th Edition and before are very accustomed to waiting to get Deep Strike units in, but now that we can do Manta Strikes on turn 1 with no drawbacks, it's a viable option. If you're thinking about dropping in on turn 2 or 3, make sure you have an extremely good reason. If you have 400+ points just sitting in space, you're playing a 600pt vs 1000pt game! Necrons are all about getting that mathematical advantage (via reanimation), so keeping units off the board helps tip the numbers in their favor.

I played a Tau vs Tau game recently where my opponent used a Manta Strike XV8 squad with all flamers. They dropped in on turn 3, couldn't shoot of course because flamers have short ranges, and were only able to fire on turn 4. Of course, by that time I'd had a whole turn to shoot at them with my army, which was very healthy since units had been kept off the board for so long.

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