Competetive 2000pts - Help me finish!

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1310

Competetive 2000pts - Help me finish!

Post#1 » Sep 04 2017 01:48

Here's another attempt at a competitive 2000pt list, going for high redundancy and mixing battlesuits and more traditional gunline units.

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HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (225)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 8x Gun Drones (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (121)
Heavy Support - Hammerhead Gunship w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (205)

Total: 1955

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As you can see, the list is currently unfinished. With the remaining 45 open points, Darkstrider or a vanilla Ethereal would fit in nicely, or the number of Fire Warriors could be reduced to 3x12 (saving 32 points) to try to squeeze in a more expensive unit, such as a group of Stealthsuits (though that would require further cuts).

What would you do?

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Bel'kro
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 291

Re: Competetive 2000pts - Help me finish!

Post#2 » Sep 04 2017 03:24

If you did as you suggested with the Firewarriors, and drop the SMS on Longstrike and the Hammerhead, you would have enough points for a 3 man stealth team with homing beacon.

That would leave you 15 points, which you could spend on stimulant injectors to make the stealth suits hardier. Then they could make fantastic objective holders after delivering their beacon/survive long enough to deliver the beacon in the first place.
Legend says his name contained over 20 apostrophes!

bansh
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: Competetive 2000pts - Help me finish!

Post#3 » Sep 04 2017 03:43

I often ask myself after building a list, how would i deal with this...or that, so if you like ill throw a couple at you....

39 khorne zerkers and kharn in 3 rhinos a raider and a knight.....
60 ambushing genestealers with 4 russes with 12 heavy flamers rushing you
2las preds whirlwind stormraven with dred and vanguard plus 2 tac squads in rhinos
2x30 pink horrors with 5 deamon princes....

Just some things to think on...i hope it helps

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CDR_Farsight
Shas'Saal
Posts: 90

Re: Competetive 2000pts - Help me finish!

Post#4 » Sep 05 2017 10:00

First, I would suggest splitting those FW and Drone squads into minimum sized squads. You already have enough units that you will rarely gain the +1 for finishing first. This will allow you to keep the Hammerheads or other juicy targets off the table to deploy based on where your opponent sets up, and will make it hard for your opponent to accurately dedicate the right amount of firepower to eliminate squads without wasted wounds.

Plus, it will allow you to more easily dedicate just the right amount of force since you only have to declare targets per unit. I can't tell you how many times my opponent has shot at or charged a 5-man FW squad or a 4-man drone squad and dealt twice as many wounds as he needed to kill them. Additionally, you will have to worry less and less about morale, especially if you throw an ethereal in there with the extra points.

As an added bonus, you'll then be able to field a Brigade instead of a battalion.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 302

Re: Competetive 2000pts - Help me finish!

Post#5 » Sep 05 2017 10:22

If I were going competitive with a similar list, I would drop longstrike and friends and change the missle mander to CIB and add in another fusion commander. I'd probably also tweak the firewarrior amounts to get in breachers with a fish. Add Darkstrider if you've got the points after all that.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1310

Re: Competetive 2000pts - Help me finish!

Post#6 » Sep 05 2017 07:17

CDR_Farsight wrote:First, I would suggest splitting those FW and Drone squads into minimum sized squads. You already have enough units that you will rarely gain the +1 for finishing first. This will allow you to keep the Hammerheads or other juicy targets off the table to deploy based on where your opponent sets up, and will make it hard for your opponent to accurately dedicate the right amount of firepower to eliminate squads without wasted wounds.

I think I lack enough Shas'ui models to do that (I only have 5) but you're probably right. It does offer even more Kill Points though.

CDR_Farsight wrote:As an added bonus, you'll then be able to field a Brigade instead of a battalion.

I couldn't do a Brigade since I lack the Heavy Support and Elites requirements, but I could do two Battalions, which isn't too bad.

Yojimbob wrote:If I were going competitive with a similar list, I would drop longstrike and friends and change the missle mander to CIB and add in another fusion commander.

In your competitive lists, what do you do for long-range firepower? I know we're best at 18" range, but not bringing any large guns like Railguns or Missile Pods makes me a little wary.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1310

Re: Competetive 2000pts - Help me finish!

Post#7 » Sep 05 2017 09:40

Here's another version of the list, this time fitting in the second Fusion Commander:

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HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, ATS (156)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (225)
HQ - Aun'va w/ 2x Ethereal Honour Guard (75)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Troops - 10x Fire Warriors (80)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Flamers, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (251)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 8x Gun Drones (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 8x Markerlights (64)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (121)

Total: 1993 - Command Points: 8 (1 Battalion Detachment, 1 Supreme Command Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

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Still a few points shy- the Fire Warrior teams could use Markerlights, but that would bring the list to 2005. I'll think about it- any suggestions welcome of course!

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 302

Re: Competetive 2000pts - Help me finish!

Post#8 » Sep 06 2017 07:47

Arka0415 wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:If I were going competitive with a similar list, I would drop longstrike and friends and change the missle mander to CIB and add in another fusion commander.

In your competitive lists, what do you do for long-range firepower? I know we're best at 18" range, but not bringing any large guns like Railguns or Missile Pods makes me a little wary.


I have no long range firepower typically anymore in my lists. EVERYTHING is up close and personal with either FB or CIB doing the anti tank work. Missiles I feel are just not worth the price increase for the range. When you're buying 12-15 of them per list, I could take an extra squad of guys instead of having further range. I feel the extra range is usually just a safety net and prevents you from playing aggressively since you likely want to charge with units to tie them up from shooting you and then use fly to jump out and wreck face. Then again this is my play style as 8th has unfolded for us but to each their own. If you don't feel comfortable with it then don't play it like that.

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CDR_Farsight
Shas'Saal
Posts: 90

Re: Competetive 2000pts - Help me finish!

Post#9 » Sep 06 2017 09:56

If you are not going to take another Hammerhead, I would suggest not taking Longstrike. He is good but not quite worth the cost unless he is buffing other units. You can fit another commander or a couple units of stealth suits for the price tag.

Speaking of Stealth Suits, if you are going to take fusion commanders, I suggest taking at least one team with a homing beacon. They are surprisingly resilient, especially if you can find a spot that either cant be seen or cant easily be charged turn 1. That first turn Alpha rolling 2D6 and picking for damage is clutch.

Remember that the way the homing beacon rule is written, only one unit can drop on it, so you will need one for each unit you are trying to drop within 8".

This year at NOVA (narrative), my fusion commanders killed the following things in Alpha:
Land Raider Variant x2, Leman Russ Command Tank, Stormraven x2, Shadowsword (combined), Mantacore, Wyvern x2. I don't think there was a single game where I didn't earn the commander's points back turn 1. I was also able to catch tons of vehicles in CC, keeping them from firing on their turns.

And thanks to my massive amounts of shield drones and bodyguard units in support, I rarely ever lost a commander. I also decided to go with 3 fusion and a shield generator since I was taking 2 of them. 6 fusion was generally enough to kill a single high priority target or two weaker vehicles (sometimes with a command point). BUT the shield generator ensured they survived long enough to do it again turn 2.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1310

Re: Competetive 2000pts - Help me finish!

Post#10 » Sep 06 2017 07:00

Yojimbob wrote:I have no long range firepower typically anymore in my lists. EVERYTHING is up close and personal with either FB or CIB doing the anti tank work. Missiles I feel are just not worth the price increase for the range.

I agree with you, that's why I'm only bringing 3 Missile Pods. It might just be a quirk of my local meta, but my 3xMP Commander has been my star unit. Obviously that's just my subjective experience, but in the games I've played so far it's been a really valuable unit. I'd take a second (and probably third) 4xFB Commander before I took more Missile Pods, but I've had good experience with the Commander so far.

CDR_Farsight wrote:If you are not going to take another Hammerhead, I would suggest not taking Longstrike. He is good but not quite worth the cost unless he is buffing other units. You can fit another commander or a couple units of stealth suits for the price tag.

You think so? I've found his buffing of other Hammerheads to be icing on the cake, rather than an important part of his points cost. I mean, 225 points for 80% chance or more for D6 damage, a 30% chance or more for bonus D3 damage, 8 shots that ignore cover and wound practically everything on 4+ or better, and two free Mortal Wounds per game? He just seems too good to be true.

CDR_Farsight wrote:Speaking of Stealth Suits, if you are going to take fusion commanders, I suggest taking at least one team with a homing beacon. They are surprisingly resilient, especially if you can find a spot that either cant be seen or cant easily be charged turn 1. That first turn Alpha rolling 2D6 and picking for damage is clutch.

Remember that the way the homing beacon rule is written, only one unit can drop on it, so you will need one for each unit you are trying to drop within 8".

This year at NOVA (narrative), my fusion commanders killed the following things in Alpha:
Land Raider Variant x2, Leman Russ Command Tank, Stormraven x2, Shadowsword (combined), Mantacore, Wyvern x2. I don't think there was a single game where I didn't earn the commander's points back turn 1. I was also able to catch tons of vehicles in CC, keeping them from firing on their turns.

In your NOVA games, did you use Homing Beacons with those Commanders? I admit I haven't tried it yet, but using Stealthsuits to get within 9" of enemy tanks seems really tricky to do. You deploy the Stealthsuits last, and infiltrate them close to a high-priority enemy unit, then just hope the enemy doesn't take them out? I'm not questioning the tactic, but I haven't used it in game yet so I'm not entirely sure how to best do it.

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CDR_Farsight
Shas'Saal
Posts: 90

Re: Competetive 2000pts - Help me finish!

Post#11 » Sep 06 2017 07:41

Arka0415 wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:If you are not going to take another Hammerhead, I would suggest not taking Longstrike. He is good but not quite worth the cost unless he is buffing other units. You can fit another commander or a couple units of stealth suits for the price tag.

You think so? I've found his buffing of other Hammerheads to be icing on the cake, rather than an important part of his points cost. I mean, 225 points for 80% chance or more for D6 damage, a 30% chance or more for bonus D3 damage, 8 shots that ignore cover and wound practically everything on 4+ or better, and two free Mortal Wounds per game? He just seems too good to be true.

CDR_Farsight wrote:Speaking of Stealth Suits, if you are going to take fusion commanders, I suggest taking at least one team with a homing beacon. They are surprisingly resilient, especially if you can find a spot that either cant be seen or cant easily be charged turn 1. That first turn Alpha rolling 2D6 and picking for damage is clutch.

Remember that the way the homing beacon rule is written, only one unit can drop on it, so you will need one for each unit you are trying to drop within 8".

This year at NOVA (narrative), my fusion commanders killed the following things in Alpha:
Land Raider Variant x2, Leman Russ Command Tank, Stormraven x2, Shadowsword (combined), Mantacore, Wyvern x2. I don't think there was a single game where I didn't earn the commander's points back turn 1. I was also able to catch tons of vehicles in CC, keeping them from firing on their turns.

In your NOVA games, did you use Homing Beacons with those Commanders? I admit I haven't tried it yet, but using Stealthsuits to get within 9" of enemy tanks seems really tricky to do. You deploy the Stealthsuits last, and infiltrate them close to a high-priority enemy unit, then just hope the enemy doesn't take them out? I'm not questioning the tactic, but I haven't used it in game yet so I'm not entirely sure how to best do it.


I did. I used 3 stealth teams and dropped in 2 fusion commanders and a bodyguard team with a couple extra fusion and mostly flamers. I rarely lost a stealth team turn 1. Normally there is enough LoS blocking terrain to find a place for them or at least limit the amount of shots they can take. It really wasn't that tricky. Most deployment zones are shallow enough that they can't block it out. Plus, all you need is a single commander sized hole. You can deploy the beacon up to an inch away from an enemy and drop the commander behind a unit and in front of the tank as long as you're within range of the beacon. Generally, if the tank is close enough to the blob to not fit in between, it is close enough to the front line to just pop down in front of the front line. I was never at a loss for targets, even when facing AM with 120 total conscript shields. Added bonus, the hole was next to a commissar!

Honestly, you don't even have to deploy the stealth suits that close. Choose max cover over proximity if you are worried about alphas and 1st turn charges. They get 8" fly movement and can advance if need be. I did have to reroll an advance once. I rolled a 1 which put me just outside of 9" for the QFC.


I think you'll find the QFC or CIB commander probably put out more total damage than longstrike. Most definitely if you're comparing points per wound or points per damage. Plus a commander in Manta is immune first turn and still hard to target in subsequent turns if it drops with drones and bodyguards. And if he has to dedicate his entire turn to take out a single less than 200 point model, then you've already won the mental game.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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