Tau forces for campaign

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Wolfrunner421
Shas
Posts: 10

Tau forces for campaign

Post#1 » Sep 07 2017 07:59

Been getting beaten weekly we are at 750 points now so I built this to try to win I used 75 resource points bringing my total points to 825

++ Unbound Army (Faction) (T'au Empire) [40 PL, 823pts] ++

+ HQ +

Commander [6 PL, 138pts]: Advanced targeting system, 3x Cyclic ion blaster

+ Troops +

Strike Team [5 PL, 72pts]: 9x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Elites +

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [22 PL, 462pts]
. Crisis Shas'ui: Cyclic ion blaster, Flamer, Shield generator
. Crisis Shas'ui: Cyclic ion blaster, Flamer, Shield generator
. Crisis Shas'ui: Cyclic ion blaster, Flamer, Shield generator
. Crisis Shas'ui: Cyclic ion blaster, Flamer, Shield generator
. Crisis Shas'ui: Cyclic ion blaster, Flamer, Shield generator
. Crisis Shas'ui: Cyclic ion blaster, Flamer, Shield generator

+ Dedicated Transport +

TY7 Devilfish [7 PL, 151pts]: 2x Smart missile system, Burst cannon

++ Total: [40 PL, 823pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1308

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#2 » Sep 07 2017 08:33

Wolfrunner421 wrote:Been getting beaten weekly we are at 750 points now so I built this to try to win I used 75 resource points bringing my total points to 825

Bringing a bunch of XV8s is always fun, but if you're playing a win this list needs to be overhauled a bit, I think. The most important things are:

1. Make the army list battle-forged. Tau may only have an Index, but Command Points are very useful.
2. Define your the role of your XV8s. A squad of flamers, or a squad of CIBs- but not both on the same unit.
3. Get a 4x Fusion Blaster Commander in there. You need anti-tank!

Let's see what the core of the list would look like:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters (160)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)

There's 483 points. We still need some kind of scoring troop unit, and some Markerlights too (CIBs and Fusion Blasters need Markerlights!). A Missile Pod Commander could be useful, as could Pathfinders, Stealthsuits, Gun Drones (with a Cadre Fireblade) or Flamer XV8s. Here are a few list ideas.

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters (160)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/8x Flamers, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (251)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits (90)
Total: 824 - Command Points: 4 (1 Vanguard Detachment)

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters (160)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Drone Controller (95)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 3x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (60)
Total: 824 - Command Points: 4 (1 Outrider Detachment)

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods, 1x ATS (156)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x CIBs, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (76)
Total: 827 - Command Points: 4 (1 Outrider Detachment)

-

What do you think?
Last edited by Arka0415 on Sep 08 2017 09:06, edited 1 time in total.

Wolfrunner421
Shas
Posts: 10

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#3 » Sep 08 2017 08:23

Very nice it is patrol detachment required for this week i have most of those models of tau. I like the lists a lot but i have a question when did stealth suits become troop choice. I am using xenos 2 book. I also don't understand how sheild drones work
Last edited by Wolfrunner421 on Sep 08 2017 08:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 299

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#4 » Sep 08 2017 08:28

They aren't a troop choice. It is likely a typo since he is using a Vanguard detachment.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 2912

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#5 » Sep 08 2017 08:33

Wolfrunner421 wrote:Very nice it is patrol detachment required for this week i have most of those models of tau. I like the lists a lot but i have a question when did stealth suits become troop choice. I am using xenos 2 book. I also don't understand how sheild drones work

They aren't. ;)

To the Shield Drones ... well I assume you haven't read the FAQ/Errata?
Shield Drones now have a 5+ FnP on top of their 4++ invul save. So either the opponent has to get through their 4++ and then for each damage the 5+ when shooting directly at them, or he shoots at a nearby Battlesuit/Infantry unit and the Shield Drone uses its Saviour Protocol turning a wound regardless of it's potential damage into a single Mortal wound for itself which can get saved with its 5+ FnP.

Wolfrunner421
Shas
Posts: 10

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#6 » Sep 08 2017 08:37

Ok makes sense. So any advice on a really good 750 point set up would be great. I am doing patrol detachment. My total tau army in 8th is almost 6k pts. I just don't understand why i am gettong pummeled.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 2912

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#7 » Sep 08 2017 08:50

Wolfrunner421 wrote:I just don't understand why i am gettong pummeled.

Well to be fair, T'au aren't exactly in a good spot currently.
Maybe this list will help you a bit

Things that have proven to work well/decently:
  • Commander with Missile Pods or Fusion Blaster or as Coldstar
  • Gun Drones in a Devilfish with a Fireblade
  • Breacher in a Devilfish
  • Stealth Suits (on their own or to deliver a Homing Beacon)
  • Crisis with 3 Flamer each and a bunch of Shield Drones (ideally used together with a Homing Beacon from Stealth Suits)
  • Crisis with 3 Cyclic Ion Blaster each (or 2+ATS, don't remember)
  • Hammerhead spam with Longstrike (very linear and straight forward list, either it does okay-ish or fails)
  • Pathfinder without upgrades (cheapest and best Markerlight source we have currently + Scout move to make it harder to place reserves for the opponent)
  • Pathfinder with Ion Rifles
  • Pathfinder with Rail Rifles (depends on your opponent and the rest of your list, if you can make him focus on other units and/or if you have enough of them, they can put out a lot of hurt)
  • Y'Vahra

Things that have proven to not work at all/badly
  • Riptide
  • Ghostkeel (some few think otherwise though so it's up to debate I guess)
  • Razorshark
  • Sniper Drones
  • Sky Ray
  • Broadsides (as much as I love them, they are simply too expensive and too easily taken out with how easily other factions have access to Lascannons or equally destructive weapons)
  • Crisis with Burst Cannons (or basically any weapon loadout that's not CIB or Flamer)

The rest is either in a limbo (neither good nor bad compared to the rest) or cheap enough that it barely matters anyway. Or I simply don't know. You don't hear much about the Stormsurge these days.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 299

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#8 » Sep 08 2017 09:31

Stormsurge is solid. It can put out some damage while also taking an absolute beating. It's got a good happy middle ground of dishing/taking damage for it's points where the Riptide just totally missed the mark. It's still not abusively good but definitely has it's merits.

Don't forget Commanders with 4 CIB's. They are also very good. since you hit 97% of the time with a single markerlight. Either 12 7/-1/1 shots or 8 8/-1/d3 shots. Gets you pretty good odds of peeling some damage from big guys while still also doing work on the little ones.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1308

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#9 » Sep 08 2017 09:58

Yojimbob wrote:They aren't a troop choice. It is likely a typo since he is using a Vanguard detachment.

Ah, the secret Stealthsuit troops! So stealthy they aren't in the index... :D Anyway, typo fixed, thanks for pointing it out!

Panzer wrote:Crisis with Burst Cannons (or basically any weapon loadout that's not CIB or Flamer)[/list]

Just something to point out- a few months back someone did well in a major tournament using a 6xFB+3xFlamer XV8 squad. Seemed like a cool idea.

Wolfrunner421 wrote:Ok makes sense. So any advice on a really good 750 point set up would be great. I am doing patrol detachment. My total tau army in 8th is almost 6k pts. I just don't understand why i am gettong pummeled.

Let's look at two things- (a) why you're getting pummeled, and (b) good ways to use Tau in tournaments.

First, let's look at your original list:

HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIBs, 1x ATS (138)
Troops - 9x Fire Warriors (72)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ 2x SMS (151)
Elites 6x XV8s w/ 6x CIBs, 6x Flamers, 6x Shield Generators (462)

Total: 823 - Command Points: 3 (1 Patrol Detachment)

You're losing games because, fundamentally, this army is not competitive. I hate to be negative about it but, this is a good chance to learn about how to fine-tune lists! Let's give it a shot.

1. Define the roles your army needs. The goal of Warhammer 40k is score more points than the enemy by completing objectives. Destroying enemy units is simply a means to this end. As such, each unit should have a clear role that helps you complete the objective. Does the unit clear out light infantry around objectives? Does the unit move quickly to take objectives? Does the unit snipe enemy characters? First define the role your army needs, then design a unit to fill that role.

2. Design units to fill those roles. Imagine an army with powerful anti-infantry, but no anti-tank roles. To improve the list, we'd add an anti-tank role unit- for example, a Commander with four Fusion Blasters. Remember, even though units can take different weapons and shoot at different targets, your units should have clearly defined roles. Instead of one squad with two roles, use two squads with one role each. Remember, often your squads need to perform their roles on different parts of the battlefield.

3. Make sure wargear and upgrades have good synergy. For example, the most powerful upgrade on a Devilfish is the Smart Missile System. However, Devilfish are transports- their role is to move. Smart Missile Systems are Heavy weapons, so ideally they shouldn't move. So, in this case, Devilfish and Smart Missile Systems do not synergize well.

4. Make sure your units efficiently use their points. Each unit has a base price, and then prices for each item of wargear. Ideally, your goal is to reduce the base cost of units while efficiently spending points on wargear. To give an obvious example, if you want three XV8 guns, get one XV8 with three guns, not three XV8s with one gun each. More practically, units Devilfish and Piranhas are bad ways to field Burst Cannons- they have a high base cost and mount only one gun.

With these points in mind, we can design the "core" of a list using points #1 and #2. All armies need something that can (a) the anti-infantry role, and (b) the anti-tank/monster role. Let's make a simple list core:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)

Here's 272 points of simple Tau. The Drones who kill infantry, while the Commander blasts tanks and monsters. Extra wargear is minimized, no synergy problems, and the units have clear roles. However, we'd also like something that can handle heavy infantry- this is the "anti-elite" role. Sometimes anti-tank units are good in the anti-elite role, but not in this case. Let's add an anti-elite unit.

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Cyclic Ion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (154)

Now we're at 426 points, still plenty of room to grow. Now that our core roles are filled, we need to add support units- units that make our other units perform their roles even better.

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights (48)

This is a good way to make a list! Identify roles, fill roles, improve synergy, repeat. A complete 750-point list might look like this:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Cyclic Ion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons, 1x Drone Controller (95)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 7x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (137)

Total: 748 - Command Points: 3 (1 Outrider Detachment, 1 Auxiliary Detachment)

Definitely not optimized, but this is just an example of how list-building works! For the units that work well in tournaments, check out the list Panzer posted earlier. Or, in summary:

- Commander w/ Fusion Blasters OR Missile Pods OR Cyclic Ion Blasters
- Longstrike
- Fire Warriors + Fireblade
- Stealthsuits
- XV8s w/ Cyclic Ion Blasters OR Flamers
- Gun Drones + Fireblade, with or without Devilfish
- Pathfinders
- Pathfinders w/ Rail Rifles
- Y'vahra

And remember: always give your Battlesuits as many Drones as they can take! For Commanders use Shield Drones, and for XV8s use Gun Drones. Choose units from that list, and follow this advice, and you should have a great list in no time!

If you want help designing a list for your campaign, let us know the unit/detachment restrictions, the point value, and any other information we need, and we can help you out!

Tau'va!

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1308

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#10 » Sep 08 2017 10:07

By the way, here's a list in the spirit of the one you posted originally. 825 points.

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Flamers, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (251)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 7x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (137)

Total: 821 - Command Points: 4 (1 Outrider Detachment)

-

Drones go in the Devilfish along with the Fireblade. Commander goes in Manta Strike reserve. Rush the enemy infantry with your Devilfish full of pain, and your Flamer XV8s; kill vehicles with the Fusion Commander. Should be a fun list!

What do you think?

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Panzer
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 2912

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#11 » Sep 08 2017 10:19

I honestly prefer Shield Drones on Flamer Crisis instead of Gun Drones. Gun Drones die really fast while my opponents were repeatedly moaning about how durable my units are due the Shield Drones which also fits my own observation.

Wolfrunner421
Shas
Posts: 10

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#12 » Sep 08 2017 10:51

Okay for this week I am restricted to 825 points it is a patrol Detachment the mission is control and secure but the missions are going to vary week-to-week

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1308

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#13 » Sep 11 2017 06:24

Wolfrunner421 wrote:Okay for this week I am restricted to 825 points it is a patrol Detachment the mission is control and secure but the missions are going to vary week-to-week


Do you get to make a new list every time, or do you need to "grow" it little by little?

Wolfrunner421
Shas
Posts: 10

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#14 » Sep 12 2017 09:26

They prefer us to make a new list every time. The planets we saw the will dictate what formation we have to use for our armies. Every month the points grow a little bit

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1308

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#15 » Sep 12 2017 07:16

Wolfrunner421 wrote:They prefer us to make a new list every time. The planets we saw the will dictate what formation we have to use for our armies. Every month the points grow a little bit


Interesting! What detachment do you need to use this time?

Wolfrunner421
Shas
Posts: 10

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#16 » Sep 13 2017 06:24

Patrol so
1-2 hq
1-3 troop
0-2elites
0-2 fast attack
0-2 heavy
0-2 flyers

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1308

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#17 » Sep 13 2017 08:17

Wolfrunner421 wrote:Patrol so
1-2 hq
1-3 troop
0-2elites
0-2 fast attack
0-2 heavy
0-2 flyers


Okay then! Try this:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Flamers, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (251)
Fast Attack - 11x Gun Drones (88)
Fast Attack - 8x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights, 3x Rail Rifles (137)

Total: 821 - Command Points: 3 (1 Patrol Detachment)

-

What do you think?

Wolfrunner421
Shas
Posts: 10

Re: Tau forces for campaign

Post#18 » Sep 14 2017 09:15

Will try it out. Next week am at 750 unless i win today

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